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EPPING FOREST: Council defends election count change
DISTRICT council election chiefs have defended the decision to hold the count on a Friday - the day AFTER polling day.
Traditionally the count takes place immediately after polling stations close on the Thursday.
But for the second successive year Epping Forest District Council decided to put off the count until the next morning.
Epping Forest MP Eleanor Laing described the decision as "very disappointing" adding: "We (Epping Forest) were the only council in Essex that hasn't counted the votes on polling day. In many other ways Epping Forest District Council is efficient and leads the field in local government administration, and we are proud of it."
She added: "I simply can't understand why we can't count on the Thursday as has happened in the past. The momentum of the democracy process is maintained when you go straight from the polling station to the count, and it is rather sad that every other council in Essex, and most others in the country, manages to do it on election night."
Returning officer Ian Willett said: "We could hold the count straight after the election if we wanted. However elections run better when staff are refreshed not tired and so since the change in the law extending the opening hours of polling stations from 7am to 10pm I would prefer not to expect staff who work at the polling stations all day to then go on and count into the small hours,
"In the interests of staff and the smooth running and accuracy of the election I think it is best to send everyone home for a rest before reconvening for the count fresh and ready to start the following day."
He added: "I will be carrying out a review of the election next month and all political parties will be given the opportunity to make comments and I will take all of these into account when deciding what to do next time."
10:56am Thursday 8th May 2008
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CommentPosted by: James Slater, Epping on 12:09pm Thu 8 May 08
The Returning Officer seems to be a bit of a jobsworth! Every other Council in Essex can do it, why can't he? Totally unacceptable response and the Council's Leadership should insist on taking this forward.
The Returning Officer seems to be a bit of a jobsworth! Every other Council in Essex can do it, why can't he? Totally unacceptable response and the Council's Leadership should insist on taking this forward.
Posted by: Morris Hickey, Chigwell (Redbridge) on 3:12pm Thu 8 May 08
The Returning Officer's comment is total garbage (almost as much as that of Florence Butterworth). If the staff cannot manage to count the number of votes (mostly for just one candidate) with the small electorates in EFDC wards then they would be sunk without trace in London boroughs where some 2,500 people vote for the election of more than one (often three) councillor in each ward. And the job of the scrutineers should not be under-estimated.
Either he can do a job or he cannot. If he cannot then he should get out and make room for somebody who can.
The Returning Officer's comment is total garbage (almost as much as that of Florence Butterworth). If the staff cannot manage to count the number of votes (mostly for just one candidate) with the small electorates in EFDC wards then they would be sunk without trace in London boroughs where some 2,500 people vote for the election of more than one (often three) councillor in each ward. And the job of the scrutineers should not be under-estimated.
Either he can do a job or he cannot. If he cannot then he should get out and make room for somebody who can.
Posted by: Jonathan Green, Loughton on 3:33pm Thu 8 May 08
Actually Morris, this year we have had Paris Council elections too, with up to 6 candidates from each party on the one ballot paper - it's not an easy job, but EFDC electoral services officers receive the same training as other Essex officers which is actually in London and there is no excuse. If everyone else can do it, why can't we!?
Actually Morris, this year we have had Paris Council elections too, with up to 6 candidates from each party on the one ballot paper - it's not an easy job, but EFDC electoral services officers receive the same training as other Essex officers which is actually in London and there is no excuse. If everyone else can do it, why can't we!?
Posted by: tom, essex on 6:54pm Thu 8 May 08
She's BNP.
Posted by: Mr Khalid, walthamstow on 10:07pm Thu 8 May 08
is always the latests becose no want the boris to wins the lection
is always the latests becose no want the boris to wins the lection
Posted by: Jack Shepherd, Epping on 11:45am Fri 9 May 08
I wonder who this James Slater is?
I wonder who this James Slater is?
Posted by: Florence Butterworth, Epping on 12:30pm Fri 9 May 08
Yeah right, Mr Hickey, speak to anyone in the know in Redbridge and even the Tories want nothing to do with you, as you're deemend "bitter". And as for the "old" jibe, I'm definetly not in my seventies. [bold]Unlike some! [/bold]
Yeah right, Mr Hickey, speak to anyone in the know in Redbridge and even the Tories want nothing to do with you, as you're deemend "bitter". And as for the "old" jibe, I'm definetly not in my seventies.
Unlike some! Posted by: Truth, Loughton on 3:08pm Fri 9 May 08
I think it's better to hold the count the day after. I've stood for election in the past and by 3am the counting staff are so tired they make mistakes, which mean more time-consuming recounts. You can't have people working for 24 hours straight. All councils should follow the example in Epping Forest. So what if we have to wait another 12 hours for the results? So long as the count is accurate, it should not matter.
I think it's better to hold the count the day after. I've stood for election in the past and by 3am the counting staff are so tired they make mistakes, which mean more time-consuming recounts. You can't have people working for 24 hours straight. All councils should follow the example in Epping Forest. So what if we have to wait another 12 hours for the results? So long as the count is accurate, it should not matter.
Posted by: An Election Worker, Epping Forest on 4:02pm Fri 9 May 08
Whilst I appreciate that people have grown accustomed to election counts taking place overnight, I believe that the approach taken by the Returning Officer was a sensible one.
The overwhelming majority (80%+) of the Count staff had also served on Election Day as either Presiding Officers or Poll Clerks at a Polling Station. In my case, this involved rising at 5am, collecting my Poll Clerk at 6am and arriving at our Polling station at 6-30am to open up at 7am. The Station then remained open until 10pm, and after packing up and transporting the sealed ballot box to a secure location, I got home at around 11pm.
The Count began the following day at 10am and lasted until 5pm, with the staff given 30 minutes for lunch, a period of 6.5 hours. We counted a total of 22 District Elections and a further 10 Parish elections; many of the Parish elections involved ballots where voters could vote for more than 1 candidate and we had to utilise the more time consuming ‘grass skirts’ method for counting.
If we had employed an overnight count, we probably would have started around 11pm as we’re a rural District with Polling stations scattered all over. On the basis of the figures above, even without a ‘lunch break’, the counting would not have finished until approximately 5-30am the following morning. At this point, over 80% of the staff would have been up for 24 hours and I’m sure that not only would numerous mistakes have been made but that the whole process would have also naturally slowed down.
I am not expecting any sympathy as I volunteer each year for these duties and indeed participated in the overnight count for the last General Election. However, it is my firm belief that the most important issue when counting an election is accuracy rather than speed. It makes no real difference to the democratic process or workings of the Council whether the results are announced overnight Thursday or during the day Friday. However, it makes a very real difference to the Count Staff as it allows them to arrive at the Count more refreshed the following day and less liable to make mistakes due to fatigue. For this reason, I fully support the stance taken by the Returning Officer.
Whilst I appreciate that people have grown accustomed to election counts taking place overnight, I believe that the approach taken by the Returning Officer was a sensible one.
The overwhelming majority (80%+) of the Count staff had also served on Election Day as either Presiding Officers or Poll Clerks at a Polling Station. In my case, this involved rising at 5am, collecting my Poll Clerk at 6am and arriving at our Polling station at 6-30am to open up at 7am. The Station then remained open until 10pm, and after packing up and transporting the sealed ballot box to a secure location, I got home at around 11pm.
The Count began the following day at 10am and lasted until 5pm, with the staff given 30 minutes for lunch, a period of 6.5 hours. We counted a total of 22 District Elections and a further 10 Parish elections; many of the Parish elections involved ballots where voters could vote for more than 1 candidate and we had to utilise the more time consuming ‘grass skirts’ method for counting.
If we had employed an overnight count, we probably would have started around 11pm as we’re a rural District with Polling stations scattered all over. On the basis of the figures above, even without a ‘lunch break’, the counting would not have finished until approximately 5-30am the following morning. At this point, over 80% of the staff would have been up for 24 hours and I’m sure that not only would numerous mistakes have been made but that the whole process would have also naturally slowed down.
I am not expecting any sympathy as I volunteer each year for these duties and indeed participated in the overnight count for the last General Election. However, it is my firm belief that the most important issue when counting an election is accuracy rather than speed. It makes no real difference to the democratic process or workings of the Council whether the results are announced overnight Thursday or during the day Friday. However, it makes a very real difference to the Count Staff as it allows them to arrive at the Count more refreshed the following day and less liable to make mistakes due to fatigue. For this reason, I fully support the stance taken by the Returning Officer.
Posted by: inézc, Epping on 1:12pm Sat 10 May 08
I stood as a candidate and therefore was present at the count. Although in some ways it would have been good to have the count on the Thursday night, following the closure of the poll, in my view it is sound reasoning to hold the count the next day when those involved in the count are refreshed. There is no disadvantage to anybody in waiting overnight and then having the count the next morning. As for Ms Butterworth's comment about the vote being "rigged" as in Zimbabwe so that the BNP did not get more seats - please!! In my view the BNP got far too many seats and the reason that they did not get more is because the majority of people (well those that could shake themselves out of their apathy and turn out to vote)rejected the idea of a fascist party having any kind of control at all.
I stood as a candidate and therefore was present at the count. Although in some ways it would have been good to have the count on the Thursday night, following the closure of the poll, in my view it is sound reasoning to hold the count the next day when those involved in the count are refreshed. There is no disadvantage to anybody in waiting overnight and then having the count the next morning. As for Ms Butterworth's comment about the vote being "rigged" as in Zimbabwe so that the BNP did not get more seats - please!! In my view the BNP got far too many seats and the reason that they did not get more is because the majority of people (well those that could shake themselves out of their apathy and turn out to vote)rejected the idea of a fascist party having any kind of control at all.
Posted by: Megan, Epping on 10:47pm Sat 10 May 08
Inezc, your reference to the BNP being a fascist party is incorrect, that term is more aptly applied to the current regeim.
I do agree though that the staff are fresher and less likely to make mistakes if the count is carried out the following day.
Inezc, your reference to the BNP being a fascist party is incorrect, that term is more aptly applied to the current regeim.
I do agree though that the staff are fresher and less likely to make mistakes if the count is carried out the following day.
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