Schoolgirl hit by car in Leyton near Lammas School

East London and West Essex Guardian Series: Police at the scene. Photo courtesy of Katy Andrews. Police at the scene. Photo courtesy of Katy Andrews.

A SCHOOLGIRL has been rushed to hospital with serious head injuries after being hit by a car.

The crash happened just after 3pm today (Tuesday November 20) in Lea Bridge Road, Leyton.

It happened near the junctions with Hitcham Road and Seymour Road, which is near Lammas School.

Lea Bridge Road resident Katy Andrews said police at the scene had confirmed a school pupil had been injured.

A spokeswoman for the London Ambulance Service said a teenage girl had been taken to the major trauma unit at the Royal London Hospital as a priority.

She added: "We were called to reports of a collision between a car and a pedestrian.

"We sent two fast responders, an ambulance and a duty officer to the scene."

There is traffic disruption in the area.

The Guardian is awaiting further information from police.

Comments (35)

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5:37pm Tue 20 Nov 12

myopinioncounts says...

I don't see a pedestrian crossing in the photo, I hope the girl was not taking a chance to cross without using one.
I don't see a pedestrian crossing in the photo, I hope the girl was not taking a chance to cross without using one. myopinioncounts

5:51pm Tue 20 Nov 12

stickmanny says...

we need an enforced 20mph limit everywhere.

lets have a city made for people.
we need an enforced 20mph limit everywhere. lets have a city made for people. stickmanny

5:55pm Tue 20 Nov 12

sunn says...

I totally agree stickmanny, car drivers have been ruining our cities for years, not to mention entire countries because of our addiction to black gold and the wars it causes.
I totally agree stickmanny, car drivers have been ruining our cities for years, not to mention entire countries because of our addiction to black gold and the wars it causes. sunn

6:13pm Tue 20 Nov 12

Nairn says...

IYes, myopinioncounts, I have to say that as a car driver, the number of times people just walk out in front of me when I am driving beggars belief. Some young people in particular seem to see it as a 'dare' and laugh when I have to slam on my brakes in order to prevent myself from knocking them over. Of course, they don't think that the car behind me may ram into me and therefore injure themselves, me and the pedestrian.

Oh and I don't drive above 20 mph anywhere in residential areas, much to the annoyance of van drivers behind me who overtake, often causing on-coming vehicles to brake suddenly.

Lots of generalisations here I know but this happens to me on a daily basis.

oh and I, like many people, need a car as we are disabled - not sure how else we are supposed to get around?
IYes, myopinioncounts, I have to say that as a car driver, the number of times people just walk out in front of me when I am driving beggars belief. Some young people in particular seem to see it as a 'dare' and laugh when I have to slam on my brakes in order to prevent myself from knocking them over. Of course, they don't think that the car behind me may ram into me and therefore injure themselves, me and the pedestrian. Oh and I don't drive above 20 mph anywhere in residential areas, much to the annoyance of van drivers behind me who overtake, often causing on-coming vehicles to brake suddenly. Lots of generalisations here I know but this happens to me on a daily basis. oh and I, like many people, need a car as we are disabled - not sure how else we are supposed to get around? Nairn

6:15pm Tue 20 Nov 12

Trevor 2 says...

Seems to me that sticknanny and sunn have insinuated that the car driver was at fault. Bit premature on the face of it!
Seems to me that sticknanny and sunn have insinuated that the car driver was at fault. Bit premature on the face of it! Trevor 2

6:15pm Tue 20 Nov 12

Tom Thumb says...

The council's statistics show that Lea Bridge Road has the highest rate of collisions resulting in death or injury anywhere in the Borough.

But even if the council wanted to introduce a 20 mph limit it would not be allowed to do so by Transport For London, which puts cars before pedestrians.

Blame bonkers Boris for this state of affairs. The Tories are on the side of death and destruction.
The council's statistics show that Lea Bridge Road has the highest rate of collisions resulting in death or injury anywhere in the Borough. But even if the council wanted to introduce a 20 mph limit it would not be allowed to do so by Transport For London, which puts cars before pedestrians. Blame bonkers Boris for this state of affairs. The Tories are on the side of death and destruction. Tom Thumb

6:20pm Tue 20 Nov 12

hargwyne says...

myopinioncounts, yes, of course, nobody in their right mind ever, ever crosses a road apart from at a designated pedestrian crossing. And, in point of fact, there is a pedestrian traffic island right where that pic was taken. Obviously what you meant to say that was you wish the poor girl a full and speedy recovery (don't worry, i've done that for you).
myopinioncounts, yes, of course, nobody in their right mind ever, ever crosses a road apart from at a designated pedestrian crossing. And, in point of fact, there is a pedestrian traffic island right where that pic was taken. Obviously what you meant to say that was you wish the poor girl a full and speedy recovery (don't worry, i've done that for you). hargwyne

6:21pm Tue 20 Nov 12

Tom Thumb says...

Trevor 2 wrote:
Seems to me that sticknanny and sunn have insinuated that the car driver was at fault. Bit premature on the face of it!
It is not necessary to start allocating blame. The fact is that all the institutions in our society are on the side of the driver. Drivers are encouraged to drive like lunatics by the road network. Everything is designed to please the driver. Pedestrians get no crossings at all, or when they do have to wait ages to cross.

London's rubbish police have no interest in enforcingn traffic laws and police priorities reflect those of the macho males who run the Met. The Met has never been interested in protecting child pedestrians but is obsessed with so-called 'car crime'.
[quote][p][bold]Trevor 2[/bold] wrote: Seems to me that sticknanny and sunn have insinuated that the car driver was at fault. Bit premature on the face of it![/p][/quote]It is not necessary to start allocating blame. The fact is that all the institutions in our society are on the side of the driver. Drivers are encouraged to drive like lunatics by the road network. Everything is designed to please the driver. Pedestrians get no crossings at all, or when they do have to wait ages to cross. London's rubbish police have no interest in enforcingn traffic laws and police priorities reflect those of the macho males who run the Met. The Met has never been interested in protecting child pedestrians but is obsessed with so-called 'car crime'. Tom Thumb

6:24pm Tue 20 Nov 12

stickmanny says...

Trevor 2 wrote:
Seems to me that sticknanny and sunn have insinuated that the car driver was at fault. Bit premature on the face of it!
not at all: we just want the priority to be moved away from drivers.

I've no problem at all with disabled people and tradesmen using them, but most other city dwellers can well do without.

pedestrians should be able to cross the road without taking their life in their hands, as so often the case whether using a crossing or not.

also it is entirely within council powers to introduce 20mph limits and several have already done so.

as for the Tories on the side of death and distruction - I totally agree.
[quote][p][bold]Trevor 2[/bold] wrote: Seems to me that sticknanny and sunn have insinuated that the car driver was at fault. Bit premature on the face of it![/p][/quote]not at all: we just want the priority to be moved away from drivers. I've no problem at all with disabled people and tradesmen using them, but most other city dwellers can well do without. pedestrians should be able to cross the road without taking their life in their hands, as so often the case whether using a crossing or not. also it is entirely within council powers to introduce 20mph limits and several have already done so. as for the Tories on the side of death and distruction - I totally agree. stickmanny

6:25pm Tue 20 Nov 12

Tom Thumb says...

Nairn wrote:
IYes, myopinioncounts, I have to say that as a car driver, the number of times people just walk out in front of me when I am driving beggars belief. Some young people in particular seem to see it as a 'dare' and laugh when I have to slam on my brakes in order to prevent myself from knocking them over. Of course, they don't think that the car behind me may ram into me and therefore injure themselves, me and the pedestrian.

Oh and I don't drive above 20 mph anywhere in residential areas, much to the annoyance of van drivers behind me who overtake, often causing on-coming vehicles to brake suddenly.

Lots of generalisations here I know but this happens to me on a daily basis.

oh and I, like many people, need a car as we are disabled - not sure how else we are supposed to get around?
Drivers in their bubble world think they have absolute right to drive anywhere at any speed they choose, and they are encouraged in this by the rotten and corrupt Metropolitan Police which long ago abandoned the enforcement of traffic laws.

London's roads are full of uninsured drivers, unroadworthy vehicles, and lawless morons, entirely thanks to our rubbish police force, which has totally twisted priorities and certainly doesn't represent the interest of Londoners.

Whatever the causes of this crash, both Transport For London and the Met undoubtedly are implicated, because both are on the side of the driver, not the vulnerable child pedestrian.
[quote][p][bold]Nairn[/bold] wrote: IYes, myopinioncounts, I have to say that as a car driver, the number of times people just walk out in front of me when I am driving beggars belief. Some young people in particular seem to see it as a 'dare' and laugh when I have to slam on my brakes in order to prevent myself from knocking them over. Of course, they don't think that the car behind me may ram into me and therefore injure themselves, me and the pedestrian. Oh and I don't drive above 20 mph anywhere in residential areas, much to the annoyance of van drivers behind me who overtake, often causing on-coming vehicles to brake suddenly. Lots of generalisations here I know but this happens to me on a daily basis. oh and I, like many people, need a car as we are disabled - not sure how else we are supposed to get around?[/p][/quote]Drivers in their bubble world think they have absolute right to drive anywhere at any speed they choose, and they are encouraged in this by the rotten and corrupt Metropolitan Police which long ago abandoned the enforcement of traffic laws. London's roads are full of uninsured drivers, unroadworthy vehicles, and lawless morons, entirely thanks to our rubbish police force, which has totally twisted priorities and certainly doesn't represent the interest of Londoners. Whatever the causes of this crash, both Transport For London and the Met undoubtedly are implicated, because both are on the side of the driver, not the vulnerable child pedestrian. Tom Thumb

6:26pm Tue 20 Nov 12

Nairn says...

Tom Thumb wrote:
Trevor 2 wrote:
Seems to me that sticknanny and sunn have insinuated that the car driver was at fault. Bit premature on the face of it!
It is not necessary to start allocating blame. The fact is that all the institutions in our society are on the side of the driver. Drivers are encouraged to drive like lunatics by the road network. Everything is designed to please the driver. Pedestrians get no crossings at all, or when they do have to wait ages to cross.

London's rubbish police have no interest in enforcingn traffic laws and police priorities reflect those of the macho males who run the Met. The Met has never been interested in protecting child pedestrians but is obsessed with so-called 'car crime'.
Actually, the law says that a pedestrian has the right of way on a crossing.

But the main thing is, as a few others have said, that the girl gets the treatment she needs and makes a full recovery
[quote][p][bold]Tom Thumb[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Trevor 2[/bold] wrote: Seems to me that sticknanny and sunn have insinuated that the car driver was at fault. Bit premature on the face of it![/p][/quote]It is not necessary to start allocating blame. The fact is that all the institutions in our society are on the side of the driver. Drivers are encouraged to drive like lunatics by the road network. Everything is designed to please the driver. Pedestrians get no crossings at all, or when they do have to wait ages to cross. London's rubbish police have no interest in enforcingn traffic laws and police priorities reflect those of the macho males who run the Met. The Met has never been interested in protecting child pedestrians but is obsessed with so-called 'car crime'.[/p][/quote]Actually, the law says that a pedestrian has the right of way on a crossing. But the main thing is, as a few others have said, that the girl gets the treatment she needs and makes a full recovery Nairn

6:30pm Tue 20 Nov 12

stickmanny says...

Nairn wrote:
Tom Thumb wrote:
Trevor 2 wrote:
Seems to me that sticknanny and sunn have insinuated that the car driver was at fault. Bit premature on the face of it!
It is not necessary to start allocating blame. The fact is that all the institutions in our society are on the side of the driver. Drivers are encouraged to drive like lunatics by the road network. Everything is designed to please the driver. Pedestrians get no crossings at all, or when they do have to wait ages to cross.

London's rubbish police have no interest in enforcingn traffic laws and police priorities reflect those of the macho males who run the Met. The Met has never been interested in protecting child pedestrians but is obsessed with so-called 'car crime'.
Actually, the law says that a pedestrian has the right of way on a crossing.

But the main thing is, as a few others have said, that the girl gets the treatment she needs and makes a full recovery
hmm: at the end of our road the 'right' of the pedestrian lasts for exactly five seconds in a 2 minute traffic light phasing - not even enough time for an able bodied person to cross.
[quote][p][bold]Nairn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Tom Thumb[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Trevor 2[/bold] wrote: Seems to me that sticknanny and sunn have insinuated that the car driver was at fault. Bit premature on the face of it![/p][/quote]It is not necessary to start allocating blame. The fact is that all the institutions in our society are on the side of the driver. Drivers are encouraged to drive like lunatics by the road network. Everything is designed to please the driver. Pedestrians get no crossings at all, or when they do have to wait ages to cross. London's rubbish police have no interest in enforcingn traffic laws and police priorities reflect those of the macho males who run the Met. The Met has never been interested in protecting child pedestrians but is obsessed with so-called 'car crime'.[/p][/quote]Actually, the law says that a pedestrian has the right of way on a crossing. But the main thing is, as a few others have said, that the girl gets the treatment she needs and makes a full recovery[/p][/quote]hmm: at the end of our road the 'right' of the pedestrian lasts for exactly five seconds in a 2 minute traffic light phasing - not even enough time for an able bodied person to cross. stickmanny

6:31pm Tue 20 Nov 12

Tom Thumb says...

Lea Bridge Road is also full of drivers chatting on handheld mobile phones, texting, or reading texts, all day long, very visibly.

The Met could catch hundreds of criminals every day of the week on Lea Bridge Road. Because of its twisted policing priorities it prefers to turn blind eye.
Lea Bridge Road is also full of drivers chatting on handheld mobile phones, texting, or reading texts, all day long, very visibly. The Met could catch hundreds of criminals every day of the week on Lea Bridge Road. Because of its twisted policing priorities it prefers to turn blind eye. Tom Thumb

6:32pm Tue 20 Nov 12

Nairn says...

Tom Thumb wrote:
Nairn wrote:
IYes, myopinioncounts, I have to say that as a car driver, the number of times people just walk out in front of me when I am driving beggars belief. Some young people in particular seem to see it as a 'dare' and laugh when I have to slam on my brakes in order to prevent myself from knocking them over. Of course, they don't think that the car behind me may ram into me and therefore injure themselves, me and the pedestrian.

Oh and I don't drive above 20 mph anywhere in residential areas, much to the annoyance of van drivers behind me who overtake, often causing on-coming vehicles to brake suddenly.

Lots of generalisations here I know but this happens to me on a daily basis.

oh and I, like many people, need a car as we are disabled - not sure how else we are supposed to get around?
Drivers in their bubble world think they have absolute right to drive anywhere at any speed they choose, and they are encouraged in this by the rotten and corrupt Metropolitan Police which long ago abandoned the enforcement of traffic laws.

London's roads are full of uninsured drivers, unroadworthy vehicles, and lawless morons, entirely thanks to our rubbish police force, which has totally twisted priorities and certainly doesn't represent the interest of Londoners.

Whatever the causes of this crash, both Transport For London and the Met undoubtedly are implicated, because both are on the side of the driver, not the vulnerable child pedestrian.
Think you are being a tad unfair to the many many more people who drive safely, are insured, have their vehicles checked as roadworthy. Check out the statistics and you'll see it may seem that every driver is the Devil incarnate but it's not actually true.

You obviously have an issue with TfL and the Met but not sure how that relates to this particular story.
[quote][p][bold]Tom Thumb[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nairn[/bold] wrote: IYes, myopinioncounts, I have to say that as a car driver, the number of times people just walk out in front of me when I am driving beggars belief. Some young people in particular seem to see it as a 'dare' and laugh when I have to slam on my brakes in order to prevent myself from knocking them over. Of course, they don't think that the car behind me may ram into me and therefore injure themselves, me and the pedestrian. Oh and I don't drive above 20 mph anywhere in residential areas, much to the annoyance of van drivers behind me who overtake, often causing on-coming vehicles to brake suddenly. Lots of generalisations here I know but this happens to me on a daily basis. oh and I, like many people, need a car as we are disabled - not sure how else we are supposed to get around?[/p][/quote]Drivers in their bubble world think they have absolute right to drive anywhere at any speed they choose, and they are encouraged in this by the rotten and corrupt Metropolitan Police which long ago abandoned the enforcement of traffic laws. London's roads are full of uninsured drivers, unroadworthy vehicles, and lawless morons, entirely thanks to our rubbish police force, which has totally twisted priorities and certainly doesn't represent the interest of Londoners. Whatever the causes of this crash, both Transport For London and the Met undoubtedly are implicated, because both are on the side of the driver, not the vulnerable child pedestrian.[/p][/quote]Think you are being a tad unfair to the many many more people who drive safely, are insured, have their vehicles checked as roadworthy. Check out the statistics and you'll see it may seem that every driver is the Devil incarnate but it's not actually true. You obviously have an issue with TfL and the Met but not sure how that relates to this particular story. Nairn

6:37pm Tue 20 Nov 12

Nairn says...

@TomThumb

Nothing to stop you reporting all these criminals, taking vehicle registration numbers, time of day etc. You seem to spend a lot of time watching all this happen.

And while you're doing that, could you also note down how many pedestrians feel they can just walk out into the road without looking and how many cyclists feel they don't need to abide to the laws of the road such as going through traffic lights when on red?
@TomThumb Nothing to stop you reporting all these criminals, taking vehicle registration numbers, time of day etc. You seem to spend a lot of time watching all this happen. And while you're doing that, could you also note down how many pedestrians feel they can just walk out into the road without looking and how many cyclists feel they don't need to abide to the laws of the road such as going through traffic lights when on red? Nairn

6:59pm Tue 20 Nov 12

E17_er says...

Some drivers are idiots.

Some pedestrians are idiots.

Some cyclists are idiots.

Some people are idiots.

Lets hope that this girl makes a good recovery
Some drivers are idiots. Some pedestrians are idiots. Some cyclists are idiots. Some people are idiots. Lets hope that this girl makes a good recovery E17_er

7:04pm Tue 20 Nov 12

Nairn says...

Very well said E17_er!!

I would imagine that many of her schoolmates saw what happened and they, along with her family, will be very upset and distressed at the moment. Thoughts with them and, like you, wishing her a full and speedy recovery.

(Royal London excellent hospital - saved the life and lifestyle of my friend when he was knocked over by a car on a pedestrian crossing a few years ago)
Very well said E17_er!! I would imagine that many of her schoolmates saw what happened and they, along with her family, will be very upset and distressed at the moment. Thoughts with them and, like you, wishing her a full and speedy recovery. (Royal London excellent hospital - saved the life and lifestyle of my friend when he was knocked over by a car on a pedestrian crossing a few years ago) Nairn

9:09pm Tue 20 Nov 12

SXH says...

I hope the girl is ok.
I live in an area with 2 schools, primary and secondary, over the years i have made many complaints for the safety of children but also drivers,
i watch parents collecting there kids from school many do not care about others, they drive off like idiots, many end up in road-rage.
The older pupils play with the traffic and jump out in front of vehicles without a care for the drivers, then you get others speeding through not taking in to account there are schools here.
There should be a 20 mph around all schools, many residents have made complaints over the years, we are just ignored by all. as a driver i have concerns.
I hope the girl is ok. I live in an area with 2 schools, primary and secondary, over the years i have made many complaints for the safety of children but also drivers, i watch parents collecting there kids from school many do not care about others, they drive off like idiots, many end up in road-rage. The older pupils play with the traffic and jump out in front of vehicles without a care for the drivers, then you get others speeding through not taking in to account there are schools here. There should be a 20 mph around all schools, many residents have made complaints over the years, we are just ignored by all. as a driver i have concerns. SXH

9:54pm Tue 20 Nov 12

westside_o says...

Whatever the reason for the accident, my thoughts are with her and her family , loved ones and driver involved. Hope she makes a complete recovery soon !
Whatever the reason for the accident, my thoughts are with her and her family , loved ones and driver involved. Hope she makes a complete recovery soon ! westside_o

10:29pm Tue 20 Nov 12

Trevor 2 says...

Nairn wrote:
Tom Thumb wrote:
Nairn wrote:
IYes, myopinioncounts, I have to say that as a car driver, the number of times people just walk out in front of me when I am driving beggars belief. Some young people in particular seem to see it as a 'dare' and laugh when I have to slam on my brakes in order to prevent myself from knocking them over. Of course, they don't think that the car behind me may ram into me and therefore injure themselves, me and the pedestrian.

Oh and I don't drive above 20 mph anywhere in residential areas, much to the annoyance of van drivers behind me who overtake, often causing on-coming vehicles to brake suddenly.

Lots of generalisations here I know but this happens to me on a daily basis.

oh and I, like many people, need a car as we are disabled - not sure how else we are supposed to get around?
Drivers in their bubble world think they have absolute right to drive anywhere at any speed they choose, and they are encouraged in this by the rotten and corrupt Metropolitan Police which long ago abandoned the enforcement of traffic laws.

London's roads are full of uninsured drivers, unroadworthy vehicles, and lawless morons, entirely thanks to our rubbish police force, which has totally twisted priorities and certainly doesn't represent the interest of Londoners.

Whatever the causes of this crash, both Transport For London and the Met undoubtedly are implicated, because both are on the side of the driver, not the vulnerable child pedestrian.
Think you are being a tad unfair to the many many more people who drive safely, are insured, have their vehicles checked as roadworthy. Check out the statistics and you'll see it may seem that every driver is the Devil incarnate but it's not actually true.

You obviously have an issue with TfL and the Met but not sure how that relates to this particular story.
Seconded Nairn.
[quote][p][bold]Nairn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Tom Thumb[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nairn[/bold] wrote: IYes, myopinioncounts, I have to say that as a car driver, the number of times people just walk out in front of me when I am driving beggars belief. Some young people in particular seem to see it as a 'dare' and laugh when I have to slam on my brakes in order to prevent myself from knocking them over. Of course, they don't think that the car behind me may ram into me and therefore injure themselves, me and the pedestrian. Oh and I don't drive above 20 mph anywhere in residential areas, much to the annoyance of van drivers behind me who overtake, often causing on-coming vehicles to brake suddenly. Lots of generalisations here I know but this happens to me on a daily basis. oh and I, like many people, need a car as we are disabled - not sure how else we are supposed to get around?[/p][/quote]Drivers in their bubble world think they have absolute right to drive anywhere at any speed they choose, and they are encouraged in this by the rotten and corrupt Metropolitan Police which long ago abandoned the enforcement of traffic laws. London's roads are full of uninsured drivers, unroadworthy vehicles, and lawless morons, entirely thanks to our rubbish police force, which has totally twisted priorities and certainly doesn't represent the interest of Londoners. Whatever the causes of this crash, both Transport For London and the Met undoubtedly are implicated, because both are on the side of the driver, not the vulnerable child pedestrian.[/p][/quote]Think you are being a tad unfair to the many many more people who drive safely, are insured, have their vehicles checked as roadworthy. Check out the statistics and you'll see it may seem that every driver is the Devil incarnate but it's not actually true. You obviously have an issue with TfL and the Met but not sure how that relates to this particular story.[/p][/quote]Seconded Nairn. Trevor 2

10:41pm Tue 20 Nov 12

SXH says...

Trevor 2 / Nairn I agree with you both.
Trevor 2 / Nairn I agree with you both. SXH

10:00am Wed 21 Nov 12

myopinioncounts says...

A 20mph limit on a major route through our borough is a ridiculous suggestion. Why pick on vehicle drivers when many cyclists exceed the 20mph limit on the side roads?
Jay walking is an offence in some countries and it succeeds in keeping pedestrians from taking risks.
And, 'hargwyne', don't presume to speak for me when you did not even express your own sympathy for this girl!
A 20mph limit on a major route through our borough is a ridiculous suggestion. Why pick on vehicle drivers when many cyclists exceed the 20mph limit on the side roads? Jay walking is an offence in some countries and it succeeds in keeping pedestrians from taking risks. And, 'hargwyne', don't presume to speak for me when you did not even express your own sympathy for this girl! myopinioncounts

1:19pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Miss Magoo says...

I wish this young girl a speedy recovery - until we know more on this story we cannot and should not lay the blame at anyones door.
I wish this young girl a speedy recovery - until we know more on this story we cannot and should not lay the blame at anyones door. Miss Magoo

3:14pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Stevo98 says...

Best wishes to the girl, and it is entirely correct that the council and tfl's attitude toward vulnerable road users is a disgrace, the famous cycle lanes painted slap bang in the middle of the door zone, for instance, so cyclists are expected to put themselves in danger by cycling exactly where they would get hit by an opening car door. Speeding, in particular, is rife and virtually un-policed, you see drivers chatting on mobiles every single day. Every day in this country ten children are killed or seriously injured on our roads and in many cases it is because the driver is treating public roads as their very own race track.
Best wishes to the girl, and it is entirely correct that the council and tfl's attitude toward vulnerable road users is a disgrace, the famous cycle lanes painted slap bang in the middle of the door zone, for instance, so cyclists are expected to put themselves in danger by cycling exactly where they would get hit by an opening car door. Speeding, in particular, is rife and virtually un-policed, you see drivers chatting on mobiles every single day. Every day in this country ten children are killed or seriously injured on our roads and in many cases it is because the driver is treating public roads as their very own race track. Stevo98

3:15pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Stevo98 says...

"A 20mph limit on a major route through our borough is a ridiculous suggestion."

You don't want to save lives?

20mph zones in Hull, for example, have reduced the number of people killed and seriously injured by 90%. In Holland, where over half of all residential roads are subject to a 30 km/h (19 mph) speed limit, a 25% reduction in all injury collisions has been recorded.

A review of 20 mph zones in London found that there was an average reduction in casualties of 42%, compared with an 8% reduction in surrounding areas.

Although injuries amongst cyclists reduced at a lower rate than other users (only 17%), this does not take account of the fact that cycling levels increased much more than for other modes.
"A 20mph limit on a major route through our borough is a ridiculous suggestion." You don't want to save lives? 20mph zones in Hull, for example, have reduced the number of people killed and seriously injured by 90%. In Holland, where over half of all residential roads are subject to a 30 km/h (19 mph) speed limit, a 25% reduction in all injury collisions has been recorded. A review of 20 mph zones in London found that there was an average reduction in casualties of 42%, compared with an 8% reduction in surrounding areas. Although injuries amongst cyclists reduced at a lower rate than other users (only 17%), this does not take account of the fact that cycling levels increased much more than for other modes. Stevo98

4:25pm Wed 21 Nov 12

hargwyne says...

Myopinoncounts, you know when someone says “some people” as they shake their heads slowly, tut ruefully, while reflecting on the depressing state of humanity on outer edges of acceptable behaviour? You know what I’m talking about? Well, when people do that, they’re shaking their heads at you personally.
Myopinoncounts, you know when someone says “some people” as they shake their heads slowly, tut ruefully, while reflecting on the depressing state of humanity on outer edges of acceptable behaviour? You know what I’m talking about? Well, when people do that, they’re shaking their heads at you personally. hargwyne

4:46pm Wed 21 Nov 12

ClifftonX says...

Stevo98 wrote:
Best wishes to the girl, and it is entirely correct that the council and tfl's attitude toward vulnerable road users is a disgrace, the famous cycle lanes painted slap bang in the middle of the door zone, for instance, so cyclists are expected to put themselves in danger by cycling exactly where they would get hit by an opening car door. Speeding, in particular, is rife and virtually un-policed, you see drivers chatting on mobiles every single day. Every day in this country ten children are killed or seriously injured on our roads and in many cases it is because the driver is treating public roads as their very own race track.
Yes, people speed, but cyclists more often than not ride through red lights and on pavements. I would suspect that cyclists commit more traffic offences in a day than your average driver. Just because you are on two wheels, it does not give you the moral high ground.

People are killed by all manner of things - I think falling off ladders at home is the highest. Shall we ban ladders?

Get it in perspective. People need to drive. They need to drive at a reasonable speed or the economy would grind to a halt. There will always be accidents - that is a fact of life.
[quote][p][bold]Stevo98[/bold] wrote: Best wishes to the girl, and it is entirely correct that the council and tfl's attitude toward vulnerable road users is a disgrace, the famous cycle lanes painted slap bang in the middle of the door zone, for instance, so cyclists are expected to put themselves in danger by cycling exactly where they would get hit by an opening car door. Speeding, in particular, is rife and virtually un-policed, you see drivers chatting on mobiles every single day. Every day in this country ten children are killed or seriously injured on our roads and in many cases it is because the driver is treating public roads as their very own race track.[/p][/quote]Yes, people speed, but cyclists more often than not ride through red lights and on pavements. I would suspect that cyclists commit more traffic offences in a day than your average driver. Just because you are on two wheels, it does not give you the moral high ground. People are killed by all manner of things - I think falling off ladders at home is the highest. Shall we ban ladders? Get it in perspective. People need to drive. They need to drive at a reasonable speed or the economy would grind to a halt. There will always be accidents - that is a fact of life. ClifftonX

5:31pm Wed 21 Nov 12

hargwyne says...

“People need to drive. They need to drive at a reasonable speed or the economy would grind to a halt. There will always be accidents - that is a fact of life.”

So, to summarise, the 25,000 people killed or seriously injured on UK roads last year is an acceptable consequence of a functioning modern economy? And is a ‘fact of life’ that we should shrug about?

The comment I made to “MydumbOpinioncoun
ts” obviously applies to you as well.
“People need to drive. They need to drive at a reasonable speed or the economy would grind to a halt. There will always be accidents - that is a fact of life.” So, to summarise, the 25,000 people killed or seriously injured on UK roads last year is an acceptable consequence of a functioning modern economy? And is a ‘fact of life’ that we should shrug about? The comment I made to “MydumbOpinioncoun ts” obviously applies to you as well. hargwyne

5:45pm Wed 21 Nov 12

ClifftonX says...

hargwyne wrote:
“People need to drive. They need to drive at a reasonable speed or the economy would grind to a halt. There will always be accidents - that is a fact of life.” So, to summarise, the 25,000 people killed or seriously injured on UK roads last year is an acceptable consequence of a functioning modern economy? And is a ‘fact of life’ that we should shrug about? The comment I made to “MydumbOpinioncoun ts” obviously applies to you as well.
Of course it is! We all make the sub-concious decision that there will be risk every time we step out of the front door. The journey to work involves risk, and we decide that the risk is worth it to make money. Do you stay in your house 24 hours a day as it is too risky to go out? If so, how do you pay for living?
[quote][p][bold]hargwyne[/bold] wrote: “People need to drive. They need to drive at a reasonable speed or the economy would grind to a halt. There will always be accidents - that is a fact of life.” So, to summarise, the 25,000 people killed or seriously injured on UK roads last year is an acceptable consequence of a functioning modern economy? And is a ‘fact of life’ that we should shrug about? The comment I made to “MydumbOpinioncoun ts” obviously applies to you as well.[/p][/quote]Of course it is! We all make the sub-concious decision that there will be risk every time we step out of the front door. The journey to work involves risk, and we decide that the risk is worth it to make money. Do you stay in your house 24 hours a day as it is too risky to go out? If so, how do you pay for living? ClifftonX

7:11pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Nairn says...

If you really want to know the figures for accidental deaths in the UK the following is very useful

http://www.guardian.
co.uk/news/datablog/
2011/oct/28/mortalit
y-statistics-causes-
death-england-wales-
2010

It shows that over 3,649 people died due to falls (and this figure is on the increase) in comparison to 1,970 to vehicle related ones (and this figure is decreasing). Intentional self-harm figures are 3,377 and you can read details on the breakdown of this in the report (The Samaritan Guidelines on reporting self-harm prevents me from going into detail here).

Not difficult to interpret these figures but it may surprise some that vehicle deaths are not as high on the causes as they think.

Of course, any accidental death is one too many but as ClifftonX says, people have to carry on their daily living activities.
If you really want to know the figures for accidental deaths in the UK the following is very useful http://www.guardian. co.uk/news/datablog/ 2011/oct/28/mortalit y-statistics-causes- death-england-wales- 2010 It shows that over 3,649 people died due to falls (and this figure is on the increase) in comparison to 1,970 to vehicle related ones (and this figure is decreasing). Intentional self-harm figures are 3,377 and you can read details on the breakdown of this in the report (The Samaritan Guidelines on reporting self-harm prevents me from going into detail here). Not difficult to interpret these figures but it may surprise some that vehicle deaths are not as high on the causes as they think. Of course, any accidental death is one too many but as ClifftonX says, people have to carry on their daily living activities. Nairn

8:32pm Wed 21 Nov 12

stickmanny says...

There are a lot of straw man arguments being put up here. Surely you can do better?

Once and for all: to criticize bad driving does NOT condone any other dangerous behaviour on the roads.

The accident figures quoted are irrelevant. We are all capable of mitigating these. Here we are talking about reducing road accidents.

Generally people do NOT need to drive. They do it because it is convenient.
There are a lot of straw man arguments being put up here. Surely you can do better? Once and for all: to criticize bad driving does NOT condone any other dangerous behaviour on the roads. The accident figures quoted are irrelevant. We are all capable of mitigating these. Here we are talking about reducing road accidents. Generally people do NOT need to drive. They do it because it is convenient. stickmanny

10:45am Thu 22 Nov 12

Stevo98 says...

"I would suspect that cyclists commit more traffic offences in a day than your average driver. "

Then you'd be completely wrong.

There are only a million regular cyclist commuters in this country. There are 1.2 million uninsured cars on our roads. 5 million motorists jump red lights EVERY MONTH! aND THAT'S BEFORE YOU EVEN START COUNTING SPEEDING DRIVERS, DRIVERS ON MOBILES, DRUNK OR DRUGGED DRIVERS ETC ETC ETC.

All anyone needs to know about the hypocrisy of motorists complaining about red light jumping cyclists is here:
"Red Alert: Motorists Drive Through 278 Red Traffic Lights a Minute

22nd August 2011

5.2 million drivers have passed through a red traffic signal in the last month
Amber gamblers: Almost one in ten drivers doesn’t slow down for amber lights

New research from Direct Line car insurance reveals that motorists are driving through 12 million red lights each month on British roads – the equivalent of running 278 red lights every minute *.

Over 5.2 million (14 per cent) motorists admit that they drive through an average of two red traffic lights each month. Over 760,000 (two per cent) motorists habitually drive through red lights if they feel the road is clear and there is no traffic.

As a result of their reckless behaviour at red lights, drivers risk clocking up over 36 million penalty points (three for each offence) and fines from fixed penalty notices totalling £721** million every month.

A worryingly high number of motorists, dubbed ‘amber gamblers’, are putting their lives and other road-users at risk by failing to slow down for traffic lights about to turn red. Almost one in ten (nine per cent) motorists don't reduce their speed when approaching amber lights, with four per cent admitting to putting the accelerator to the floor to race through the lights.

Any law-breaking by cyclists is miniscule compared with the illegal behaviour of drivers.
"I would suspect that cyclists commit more traffic offences in a day than your average driver. " Then you'd be completely wrong. There are only a million regular cyclist commuters in this country. There are 1.2 million uninsured cars on our roads. 5 million motorists jump red lights EVERY MONTH! aND THAT'S BEFORE YOU EVEN START COUNTING SPEEDING DRIVERS, DRIVERS ON MOBILES, DRUNK OR DRUGGED DRIVERS ETC ETC ETC. All anyone needs to know about the hypocrisy of motorists complaining about red light jumping cyclists is here: "Red Alert: Motorists Drive Through 278 Red Traffic Lights a Minute 22nd August 2011 5.2 million drivers have passed through a red traffic signal in the last month Amber gamblers: Almost one in ten drivers doesn’t slow down for amber lights New research from Direct Line car insurance reveals that motorists are driving through 12 million red lights each month on British roads – the equivalent of running 278 red lights every minute *. Over 5.2 million (14 per cent) motorists admit that they drive through an average of two red traffic lights each month. Over 760,000 (two per cent) motorists habitually drive through red lights if they feel the road is clear and there is no traffic. As a result of their reckless behaviour at red lights, drivers risk clocking up over 36 million penalty points (three for each offence) and fines from fixed penalty notices totalling £721** million every month. A worryingly high number of motorists, dubbed ‘amber gamblers’, are putting their lives and other road-users at risk by failing to slow down for traffic lights about to turn red. Almost one in ten (nine per cent) motorists don't reduce their speed when approaching amber lights, with four per cent admitting to putting the accelerator to the floor to race through the lights. Any law-breaking by cyclists is miniscule compared with the illegal behaviour of drivers. Stevo98

11:19am Thu 22 Nov 12

Stevo98 says...

The driver's been arrested on suspicion of Careless Driving. Ten people have been killed on that road since 1999, none by cyclists, ten by drivers.
The driver's been arrested on suspicion of Careless Driving. Ten people have been killed on that road since 1999, none by cyclists, ten by drivers. Stevo98

12:16pm Thu 22 Nov 12

stickmanny says...

and the maximum penalty for careless driving is an insult to anyone affected by it in such a terrible way.
and the maximum penalty for careless driving is an insult to anyone affected by it in such a terrible way. stickmanny

12:50pm Thu 22 Nov 12

Stevo98 says...

Agreed stickmanny, a speeding driver nearly kills a cyclist and gets away with a fine that's less than the cost of the bike:

http://www.standard.
co.uk/news/crime/spe
eding-driver-almost-
killed-me-says-cycli
st-in-payout-fight-8
343220.html

Derisory. Laughable.
Agreed stickmanny, a speeding driver nearly kills a cyclist and gets away with a fine that's less than the cost of the bike: http://www.standard. co.uk/news/crime/spe eding-driver-almost- killed-me-says-cycli st-in-payout-fight-8 343220.html Derisory. Laughable. Stevo98

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