Drivers' challenge over CCTV fines in Leytonstone

Sign has been moved further back causing confusion for motorists

Sign has been moved further back causing confusion for motorists

First published in News
Last updated
East London and West Essex Guardian Series: Photograph of the Author by , Reporter

Motorists are set to challenge a series of fines issued after new CCTV camera was installed.

A meeting at Wood Street Post Office in Walthamstow saw dozens of other drivers came together to vent their anger after receiving tickets.

A 24-hour bus lane in Whipps Cross Road, Leytonstone, is now being monitored by a new CCTV camera installed at traffic lights on the entrance to the Green Man roundabout.

The road markings for the bus lane end about 10m before the roundabout to enable increased access.

But drivers claim they are still being fined once the markings have ended because a sign indicating the end of the restriction was recently moved closer to the roundabout.

Post office owner Aman Sadana, 24, from Barking, has received three penalty charge notices (PCN) with a minimum fine of £65 each since February 6 and claims motorists are being wrongfully targeted and illegally fined.

He said: “I’m worried to go home at night in case I have more fines waiting for me on my doorstep. I have been using this route three times a day for seven years and have always stayed clear of the bus lane.

“I don’t care if the council want to put up a camera but we are being fined for entering the correct lane as the traffic moves to turn left.

“This is nothing short than a money-making scheme.”

Katherine Penton, 41 of Colchester Road in Leytonstone, has also received a ticket and believes many motorists may have been targeted.

She said: “It feels like a stealth tax on people. When you’re fined for doing something wrong then fair enough but if you’ve then something believing to be legitimate and they change the sign half-way through then it’s not fair.

"It’s absolutely bonkers and thousands must be getting hit."

Emma Moore, of Hecham Close in Walthamstow, received her £65 fine on Tuesday.

The 32 year-old said: "It's very upsetting as someone who follows the rules and abides by the law. It feels like the council is trying to milk us and get what they can possibly because of a shortfall in their finances."

A council spokeswoman said: “We have a duty to enforce proper use of bus lanes to ensure that buses can deliver essential public transport services and this lane is also used by ambulances needing access to Whipps Cross Hospital.

“The static camera was introduced on February 6 in place of the CCTV vehicle we had used previously, which by the very nature of this stretch of road had proved impractical, and we have been monitoring the camera’s effectiveness since.

“All of the signage in the area has been approved by the Department for Transport but motorists can of course follow the usual appeals process if they feel a ticket is unjustified.”

Comments (17)

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3:40pm Thu 27 Feb 14

cynicalsue says...

If you have made the same 'mistake' 3 times you'd think they had learned a lesson?
If you have made the same 'mistake' 3 times you'd think they had learned a lesson? cynicalsue
  • Score: -7

4:31pm Thu 27 Feb 14

Villagecranberry says...

cynicalsue wrote:
If you have made the same 'mistake' 3 times you'd think they had learned a lesson?
Not if they are not marked correctly.
[quote][p][bold]cynicalsue[/bold] wrote: If you have made the same 'mistake' 3 times you'd think they had learned a lesson?[/p][/quote]Not if they are not marked correctly. Villagecranberry
  • Score: 4

4:46pm Thu 27 Feb 14

SillyCnut says...

The law on marking out of bus-lanes and the required signage is very strict. Looking at the photo, there would seem to be grounds for challenge for all who have tickets. Google "bus lane PCN" and you will find plenty of information.
The law on marking out of bus-lanes and the required signage is very strict. Looking at the photo, there would seem to be grounds for challenge for all who have tickets. Google "bus lane PCN" and you will find plenty of information. SillyCnut
  • Score: 4

6:18pm Thu 27 Feb 14

mdj says...

Well, people know who not to vote for next time.
Curious how the usually publicity-hungry Mr Loakes has nothing to say.

The council is still in illegal possession of tens of thousands of pounds levied by an invalid box junction in Leytonstone High Rd a few years ago, so it should never be assumed that any statement by the council is legal or truthful.
See:
• LEYTONSTONE: Ruling prompts re-think of box junction policy
1:07pm Monday 27 April 2009
• THE council is changing its policy of fining people at a box junction after an illegal charge was overturned following an appeal by an outraged motorist.
• LEYTONSTONE: Council keeps most of illegal box junction cash
12:14pm Tuesday 10 November 2009
• THE council has kept most of the money it gained in fines from motorists at an illegal box junction- leading to claims that it should be doing more to return the cash.
• LEYTONSTONE: Councillor defends box junction refund policy
5:12pm Wednesday 11 November 2009
• A LEADING councillor has said the authority has “worked hard” to notify people that they are eligible for refunds for fines from an illegal box junction.
• LEYTONSTONE: Council forced to refund thousands in traffic fines
10:24am Wednesday 27 February 2008
• THOUSANDS of pounds in traffic fines will be refunded by Waltham Forest Council after the Government said a controversial box junction may have broken official guidelines


Remember, until they have your money they haven't won.
If the council stand firm , a mass appeal to the Adjudicator will tell its own story.
This council has one of the highest percentages of appeals granted, so have courage - and remember to vote the scoundrels out!

There is, needless to say, no practical need for this piece of bus lane to be 24 hours at all.
Well, people know who not to vote for next time. Curious how the usually publicity-hungry Mr Loakes has nothing to say. The council is still in illegal possession of tens of thousands of pounds levied by an invalid box junction in Leytonstone High Rd a few years ago, so it should never be assumed that any statement by the council is legal or truthful. See: • LEYTONSTONE: Ruling prompts re-think of box junction policy 1:07pm Monday 27 April 2009 • THE council is changing its policy of fining people at a box junction after an illegal charge was overturned following an appeal by an outraged motorist. • LEYTONSTONE: Council keeps most of illegal box junction cash 12:14pm Tuesday 10 November 2009 • THE council has kept most of the money it gained in fines from motorists at an illegal box junction- leading to claims that it should be doing more to return the cash. • LEYTONSTONE: Councillor defends box junction refund policy 5:12pm Wednesday 11 November 2009 • A LEADING councillor has said the authority has “worked hard” to notify people that they are eligible for refunds for fines from an illegal box junction. • LEYTONSTONE: Council forced to refund thousands in traffic fines 10:24am Wednesday 27 February 2008 • THOUSANDS of pounds in traffic fines will be refunded by Waltham Forest Council after the Government said a controversial box junction may have broken official guidelines Remember, until they have your money they haven't won. If the council stand firm , a mass appeal to the Adjudicator will tell its own story. This council has one of the highest percentages of appeals granted, so have courage - and remember to vote the scoundrels out! There is, needless to say, no practical need for this piece of bus lane to be 24 hours at all. mdj
  • Score: 8

6:21pm Thu 27 Feb 14

mdj says...

PS: The spokeswoman's claim that this lane, leading away from Whipps Cross, is needed for ambulance access to the hospital, is a plain lie.

If anyone has the energy, a complaint could be made; but the statement is worth showing to the Adjudicator!
PS: The spokeswoman's claim that this lane, leading away from Whipps Cross, is needed for ambulance access to the hospital, is a plain lie. If anyone has the energy, a complaint could be made; but the statement is worth showing to the Adjudicator! mdj
  • Score: 4

6:28pm Thu 27 Feb 14

ajay567 says...

24-hour bus lane's are a wast of time
24-hour bus lane's are a wast of time ajay567
  • Score: 5

6:54pm Thu 27 Feb 14

livedheretoolong says...

If you want to take the first exit at a roundabout it is perfectly normal to position your vehicle in the inside land on the approach so you don't have to cut across traffic. Most drivers would do this instinctively and that's why the council has set this trap.
It's yet another money making scam from Labour led Waltham Forest Council.
They haven't been able to put up council tax for the last 4 years so are now getting really desperate to find other ways of funding their waste and incompetence.
If you want to take the first exit at a roundabout it is perfectly normal to position your vehicle in the inside land on the approach so you don't have to cut across traffic. Most drivers would do this instinctively and that's why the council has set this trap. It's yet another money making scam from Labour led Waltham Forest Council. They haven't been able to put up council tax for the last 4 years so are now getting really desperate to find other ways of funding their waste and incompetence. livedheretoolong
  • Score: 8

6:54pm Thu 27 Feb 14

VillageIdiot69 says...

From the TFL website:-

"If no sign is visible, assume that the bus lane is operational 24 hours a day."

http://www.tfl.gov.u
k/roadusers/redroute
s/963.aspx
From the TFL website:- "If no sign is visible, assume that the bus lane is operational 24 hours a day." http://www.tfl.gov.u k/roadusers/redroute s/963.aspx VillageIdiot69
  • Score: 0

8:15pm Thu 27 Feb 14

SillyCnut says...

look here:

http://www.ticketfig
hter.co.uk/bus.htm
look here: http://www.ticketfig hter.co.uk/bus.htm SillyCnut
  • Score: 0

11:01pm Thu 27 Feb 14

DogandDuck says...

I have 2 PCN's on one of my cars relating to the introduction of this KBWF Scamera.

I have 3 friends with 3 PCN's each due to the illegal action by LBWF

Do not pay the PCN for this. LBWF are imbeciles and are taking advantage of the situation.

The LBWF spokesman is incorrect and they cannot have authorisation of the sign and road markings from Department of Transports because beyond argument this bus lane is non-compliant.

Repeat - do not pay the fine.

Firstly, where is the Traffic Management Order that extends the Bus Lane?

The first sign SHOULD be 35m - 45m before the taper on the bus lane markings.This initial sign has been invalid since 2006

The road markings are wrong. The "Bus and (cycle symbol) Only" markings MUST ONLY be used in bus lane contra-flow - this is a with-flow scheme.

The "End of of Bus Lane" sign has been moved 30m+ down the road. No TMO changes or warning sign to motorists.

If LBWF want to enforce the bus lane then I have no issue with them doing it in a compliant fashion and proper warning about changes to a enforcement of a bus lane that goes back to 2006.

Challenge to "Council spokesman" is show me the Department of Transport approval because you are not compliant with Chapter 1 and Chapter 5 of the traffic sign regulations that the embedded in law.
I have 2 PCN's on one of my cars relating to the introduction of this KBWF Scamera. I have 3 friends with 3 PCN's each due to the illegal action by LBWF Do not pay the PCN for this. LBWF are imbeciles and are taking advantage of the situation. The LBWF spokesman is incorrect and they cannot have authorisation of the sign and road markings from Department of Transports because beyond argument this bus lane is non-compliant. Repeat - do not pay the fine. Firstly, where is the Traffic Management Order that extends the Bus Lane? The first sign SHOULD be 35m - 45m before the taper on the bus lane markings.This initial sign has been invalid since 2006 The road markings are wrong. The "Bus and (cycle symbol) Only" markings MUST ONLY be used in bus lane contra-flow - this is a with-flow scheme. The "End of of Bus Lane" sign has been moved 30m+ down the road. No TMO changes or warning sign to motorists. If LBWF want to enforce the bus lane then I have no issue with them doing it in a compliant fashion and proper warning about changes to a enforcement of a bus lane that goes back to 2006. Challenge to "Council spokesman" is show me the Department of Transport approval because you are not compliant with Chapter 1 and Chapter 5 of the traffic sign regulations that the embedded in law. DogandDuck
  • Score: 9

7:00am Fri 28 Feb 14

Villagecranberry says...

mdj wrote:
PS: The spokeswoman's claim that this lane, leading away from Whipps Cross, is needed for ambulance access to the hospital, is a plain lie.

If anyone has the energy, a complaint could be made; but the statement is worth showing to the Adjudicator!
The Ambulance Crew may need the Lane to get to McDonalds in a hurry.
[quote][p][bold]mdj[/bold] wrote: PS: The spokeswoman's claim that this lane, leading away from Whipps Cross, is needed for ambulance access to the hospital, is a plain lie. If anyone has the energy, a complaint could be made; but the statement is worth showing to the Adjudicator![/p][/quote]The Ambulance Crew may need the Lane to get to McDonalds in a hurry. Villagecranberry
  • Score: -5

9:00am Fri 28 Feb 14

DogandDuck says...

cynicalsue wrote:
If you have made the same 'mistake' 3 times you'd think they had learned a lesson?
What you appear to miss is that the ticket takes ten days or so to arrive so if you hadn't noticed that they had moved the end of bus lane (with no warning) then you could end up with ten tickets on their way before you realise the Scamera has been installed.

I need to correct my first post.

The traffic signs are in Chapter 3 section 15.9

https://www.gov.uk/g
overnment/uploads/sy
stem/uploads/attachm
ent_data/file/223943
/traffic-signs-manua
l-chapter-03.pdf

And Chapter 5 section 17.6

https://www.gov.uk/g
overnment/uploads/sy
stem/uploads/attachm
ent_data/file/223667
/traffic-signs-manua
l-chapter-05.pdf
[quote][p][bold]cynicalsue[/bold] wrote: If you have made the same 'mistake' 3 times you'd think they had learned a lesson?[/p][/quote]What you appear to miss is that the ticket takes ten days or so to arrive so if you hadn't noticed that they had moved the end of bus lane (with no warning) then you could end up with ten tickets on their way before you realise the Scamera has been installed. I need to correct my first post. The traffic signs are in Chapter 3 section 15.9 https://www.gov.uk/g overnment/uploads/sy stem/uploads/attachm ent_data/file/223943 /traffic-signs-manua l-chapter-03.pdf And Chapter 5 section 17.6 https://www.gov.uk/g overnment/uploads/sy stem/uploads/attachm ent_data/file/223667 /traffic-signs-manua l-chapter-05.pdf DogandDuck
  • Score: 4

6:03pm Fri 28 Feb 14

Stevo98 says...

"If no sign is visible, assume that the bus lane is operational 24 hours a day."

It's scary there are so many idiot drivers out there who don't know how to drive properly.
"If no sign is visible, assume that the bus lane is operational 24 hours a day." It's scary there are so many idiot drivers out there who don't know how to drive properly. Stevo98
  • Score: 0

6:23pm Fri 28 Feb 14

escapefrome17 says...

Stevo98 wrote:
"If no sign is visible, assume that the bus lane is operational 24 hours a day."

It's scary there are so many idiot drivers out there who don't know how to drive properly.
Just curious-do you drive? are you old enough? This particular spot requires drivers to have their eyes on the road rather than the signage. The issue here is that there are people who will cut into the end of the bus lane early-plus of course there could be a bus coming up....if you intend moving over to the left here you really should be watching the mirror rather than the somewhat vague signage.
[quote][p][bold]Stevo98[/bold] wrote: "If no sign is visible, assume that the bus lane is operational 24 hours a day." It's scary there are so many idiot drivers out there who don't know how to drive properly.[/p][/quote]Just curious-do you drive? are you old enough? This particular spot requires drivers to have their eyes on the road rather than the signage. The issue here is that there are people who will cut into the end of the bus lane early-plus of course there could be a bus coming up....if you intend moving over to the left here you really should be watching the mirror rather than the somewhat vague signage. escapefrome17
  • Score: 1

3:29pm Sat 1 Mar 14

Stevo98 says...

You seriously find it difficult to drive along and notice traffic signs? It's a pretty basic driving skill, if in doubt, stay out.
You seriously find it difficult to drive along and notice traffic signs? It's a pretty basic driving skill, if in doubt, stay out. Stevo98
  • Score: 0

5:26pm Sat 1 Mar 14

escapefrome17 says...

Stevo98 wrote:
You seriously find it difficult to drive along and notice traffic signs? It's a pretty basic driving skill, if in doubt, stay out.
As suspected- you probably don't drive: if you did you'd realise the particular issue with the positioning this signage.
[quote][p][bold]Stevo98[/bold] wrote: You seriously find it difficult to drive along and notice traffic signs? It's a pretty basic driving skill, if in doubt, stay out.[/p][/quote]As suspected- you probably don't drive: if you did you'd realise the particular issue with the positioning this signage. escapefrome17
  • Score: 0

6:39am Sun 2 Mar 14

Villagecranberry says...

Stevo98 wrote:
You seriously find it difficult to drive along and notice traffic signs? It's a pretty basic driving skill, if in doubt, stay out.
The law does not apply to pedestrians so you will be find on the footpath by the bus lane.
[quote][p][bold]Stevo98[/bold] wrote: You seriously find it difficult to drive along and notice traffic signs? It's a pretty basic driving skill, if in doubt, stay out.[/p][/quote]The law does not apply to pedestrians so you will be find on the footpath by the bus lane. Villagecranberry
  • Score: 0

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