Plans to close Wood Street Indoor Market on Sundays will see businesses lose up to 50 per cent of weekly income, it is claimed

Stall holders may be forced out of area

Stall holders may be forced out of area

First published in News
Last updated
East London and West Essex Guardian Series: Photograph of the Author by , Reporter - Waltham Forest

Market traders today expressed anger after being told they will no longer be able to trade on Sunday.

Sunday trading at Wood Street Indoor Market, in Walthamstow, began in the summer of last year as part of a trial.

But management has now decided to close the market on Sundays, as of next week.

Traders are under no obligation to open on Sundays, but many willingly do so as it is now one of the busiest trading days.

Guido Ratti, of Hypstrz record shop, is saddened by the decision taken by management firm, Woodstow & Antiques Development Ltd.

The 46-year-old said: “My business will be very badly affected and this decision shows to the public we’re not a serious market when that is not the case.

“This decision to close on Sundays is causing arguments between traders.

“I predict to lose up to 50 per cent of trade, for me it’s like closing on a Saturday."

Owner of the 38-year-old market, Tony Davis, has confirmed the closure.

He said: "Not enough tenants are coming in on Sunday to warrant us opening up.

"The trial was to see how successful it was and we found that people were not coming in and spending money."

Martin’s Toys & Memorabilia has opened every Sunday since the trial started.

Owner Martin Cleminson, 55, said: "It wasn’t about a lack of attendance as the market was doing pretty well.

“Sunday is the ‘banker’ for us because of reduced parking restrictions.

“Most of my customers are parents that work  Monday to Friday so my business is going to be affected in a big way.

"It’s just a shame for us traders, the customers and the wider community."

An online petition launched by Jason Jackson, of Aura Rose Cakes & Patisserie,  has received 500 signatures and will be handed to Mr Davis this week.

"We are open every day the market is open. Our business does exceptionally well on weekends because of this. We're considering moving elsewhere.

"Our customers are distraught and it’s not fair for the majority to suffer because the minority want it closed. We expect to lose 45 per cent in income from weekend takings so we are almost left with no other option.”   

There will be no more Sunday trading as of March 9.

Comments (25)

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3:58pm Tue 4 Mar 14

Dave mp says...

I wouldn't expect anything less from this owner. Why doesn't he just sell up and let someone redevelop the place?
I wouldn't expect anything less from this owner. Why doesn't he just sell up and let someone redevelop the place? Dave mp
  • Score: 8

7:12pm Tue 4 Mar 14

topnote says...

I walked through the Market yesterday, first time for about 6 months. Was very disappointed to see that some of the old traders are no longer there. I was looking to get an old clock repaired but was disappointed to see that the repairer who had a slot near the front had been replaced by a toy car seller. I spoke to a couple of people I recognised down there and was told that only yuppies or "friend" were welcome and that the older "residents" were being being moved on. I wonder how long more it will last? will we see planning permission for a lot of flats being sought?
I walked through the Market yesterday, first time for about 6 months. Was very disappointed to see that some of the old traders are no longer there. I was looking to get an old clock repaired but was disappointed to see that the repairer who had a slot near the front had been replaced by a toy car seller. I spoke to a couple of people I recognised down there and was told that only yuppies or "friend" were welcome and that the older "residents" were being being moved on. I wonder how long more it will last? will we see planning permission for a lot of flats being sought? topnote
  • Score: 0

8:50pm Tue 4 Mar 14

jenjenten says...

topnote wrote:
I walked through the Market yesterday, first time for about 6 months. Was very disappointed to see that some of the old traders are no longer there. I was looking to get an old clock repaired but was disappointed to see that the repairer who had a slot near the front had been replaced by a toy car seller. I spoke to a couple of people I recognised down there and was told that only yuppies or "friend" were welcome and that the older "residents" were being being moved on. I wonder how long more it will last? will we see planning permission for a lot of flats being sought?
Your post doesn't make sense - firstly the clock man is next door in the Georgian Village, secondly the market is run by the more old school element who is good friends with the older traders - so who's moving the older traders on? When you say only 'yuppies' or 'friends' are welcome - do you mean as shoppers or as traders? Anyone who's willing to spend money is welcome in the market. Anyone who's got a good business idea and knows how to do marketing will be able to make a good go of it - whether it's old school Walthamstow business or one of the more wealthy newcomers. Closing on Sunday is a rubbish business idea. So what is your idea for the market developing and surviving? Keep only the old school traders who aren't willing to open on a Sunday? (loads of them do open on a Sunday btw); again - who is moving the older traders on?
[quote][p][bold]topnote[/bold] wrote: I walked through the Market yesterday, first time for about 6 months. Was very disappointed to see that some of the old traders are no longer there. I was looking to get an old clock repaired but was disappointed to see that the repairer who had a slot near the front had been replaced by a toy car seller. I spoke to a couple of people I recognised down there and was told that only yuppies or "friend" were welcome and that the older "residents" were being being moved on. I wonder how long more it will last? will we see planning permission for a lot of flats being sought?[/p][/quote]Your post doesn't make sense - firstly the clock man is next door in the Georgian Village, secondly the market is run by the more old school element who is good friends with the older traders - so who's moving the older traders on? When you say only 'yuppies' or 'friends' are welcome - do you mean as shoppers or as traders? Anyone who's willing to spend money is welcome in the market. Anyone who's got a good business idea and knows how to do marketing will be able to make a good go of it - whether it's old school Walthamstow business or one of the more wealthy newcomers. Closing on Sunday is a rubbish business idea. So what is your idea for the market developing and surviving? Keep only the old school traders who aren't willing to open on a Sunday? (loads of them do open on a Sunday btw); again - who is moving the older traders on? jenjenten
  • Score: 5

12:08am Wed 5 Mar 14

TerryMack says...

I am growing tired of cake decorating lady bring quoted in these articles. As reporters i would suggest you ask your quoted sources for their association to management to ensure you get an objective view. In addition i have never seen her in her shop anyway so what would she know. They are either lazy, bone idle, are not inyrrested in making money or more likely have a developer in the wings
Shame on you. The Management...move on...
I am growing tired of cake decorating lady bring quoted in these articles. As reporters i would suggest you ask your quoted sources for their association to management to ensure you get an objective view. In addition i have never seen her in her shop anyway so what would she know. They are either lazy, bone idle, are not inyrrested in making money or more likely have a developer in the wings Shame on you. The Management...move on... TerryMack
  • Score: -1

12:25am Wed 5 Mar 14

Dave mp says...

TerryMack wrote:
I am growing tired of cake decorating lady bring quoted in these articles. As reporters i would suggest you ask your quoted sources for their association to management to ensure you get an objective view. In addition i have never seen her in her shop anyway so what would she know. They are either lazy, bone idle, are not inyrrested in making money or more likely have a developer in the wings
Shame on you. The Management...move on...
Probably on benefits anyway?
[quote][p][bold]TerryMack[/bold] wrote: I am growing tired of cake decorating lady bring quoted in these articles. As reporters i would suggest you ask your quoted sources for their association to management to ensure you get an objective view. In addition i have never seen her in her shop anyway so what would she know. They are either lazy, bone idle, are not inyrrested in making money or more likely have a developer in the wings Shame on you. The Management...move on...[/p][/quote]Probably on benefits anyway? Dave mp
  • Score: 2

8:53am Wed 5 Mar 14

jenjenten says...

Dave mp wrote:
TerryMack wrote:
I am growing tired of cake decorating lady bring quoted in these articles. As reporters i would suggest you ask your quoted sources for their association to management to ensure you get an objective view. In addition i have never seen her in her shop anyway so what would she know. They are either lazy, bone idle, are not inyrrested in making money or more likely have a developer in the wings
Shame on you. The Management...move on...
Probably on benefits anyway?
I'm sure the cake lady in Shells and Scrolls works very hard and is not on benifit, plus she's not quoted in this article.

They need some kind of mediator in the market, its turning into an us versus them scenario. It is ridiculous when surely everyone wants their businesses to work.

SORT IT OUT WOOD STREET MARKET - YOU DON'T KNOW HOW LUCKY YOU ARE!
[quote][p][bold]Dave mp[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TerryMack[/bold] wrote: I am growing tired of cake decorating lady bring quoted in these articles. As reporters i would suggest you ask your quoted sources for their association to management to ensure you get an objective view. In addition i have never seen her in her shop anyway so what would she know. They are either lazy, bone idle, are not inyrrested in making money or more likely have a developer in the wings Shame on you. The Management...move on...[/p][/quote]Probably on benefits anyway?[/p][/quote]I'm sure the cake lady in Shells and Scrolls works very hard and is not on benifit, plus she's not quoted in this article. They need some kind of mediator in the market, its turning into an us versus them scenario. It is ridiculous when surely everyone wants their businesses to work. SORT IT OUT WOOD STREET MARKET - YOU DON'T KNOW HOW LUCKY YOU ARE! jenjenten
  • Score: 1

10:03am Wed 5 Mar 14

Sir Matt of Wood Street says...

It seems to me like the owners of the market are very happy to take but aren't willing to give anything back, or even do anything to help themselves. They have received subsidies from the council in order to occupy empty units and tidy up the shopfronts, and now even the layout of the Plaza is being changed to facilitate easier access to the Marlowe Road entrance. All good and noble initiatives, I thought, but now I'm not so sure.

It probably doesn't help that the owners are a building firm, whom I am sure would love to turn that same Marlowe Road end into flats. Hopefully though there will now be no chance of that as the council has invested so heavily in helping the market to work. But that hasn't stopped the owners apparently doing everything possible to kill off good will. A petition with 500 names on it to stay open? Most businesses would love to be in that position, to have so many people wanting the chance to spend money in your business. Maybe if they received a percentage of turnover rather than a fixed rent they would be far more active in promoting the market, keeping it warm and fed with electricity and making sure all opportunities to sell were taken.

The excuse is the market is not opening on Sundays because the owner cannot find someone to open it, although many traders say they are more than happy to open it themselves. Turning a key in a lock doesn't seem like the hardest thing in the world. I'll do it if you want. I'm sure it's not that difficult.

I really hope the owners consider the impact they are having on the rest of Wood Street too, there are other businesses, pubs and restaurants that could really do with more people in the area on a Sunday. A little bit of community spirit is what is called for here.
It seems to me like the owners of the market are very happy to take but aren't willing to give anything back, or even do anything to help themselves. They have received subsidies from the council in order to occupy empty units and tidy up the shopfronts, and now even the layout of the Plaza is being changed to facilitate easier access to the Marlowe Road entrance. All good and noble initiatives, I thought, but now I'm not so sure. It probably doesn't help that the owners are a building firm, whom I am sure would love to turn that same Marlowe Road end into flats. Hopefully though there will now be no chance of that as the council has invested so heavily in helping the market to work. But that hasn't stopped the owners apparently doing everything possible to kill off good will. A petition with 500 names on it to stay open? Most businesses would love to be in that position, to have so many people wanting the chance to spend money in your business. Maybe if they received a percentage of turnover rather than a fixed rent they would be far more active in promoting the market, keeping it warm and fed with electricity and making sure all opportunities to sell were taken. The excuse is the market is not opening on Sundays because the owner cannot find someone to open it, although many traders say they are more than happy to open it themselves. Turning a key in a lock doesn't seem like the hardest thing in the world. I'll do it if you want. I'm sure it's not that difficult. I really hope the owners consider the impact they are having on the rest of Wood Street too, there are other businesses, pubs and restaurants that could really do with more people in the area on a Sunday. A little bit of community spirit is what is called for here. Sir Matt of Wood Street
  • Score: 9

3:03pm Wed 5 Mar 14

DaveE17 says...

As someone who works Monday to Friday and can only visit the market at weekends, I am disappointed that the market is due to close on Sundays. Sunday is a great day - and generally a more relaxing and less eventful one for me - to shop at the market; and this is something I often do. Reducing the opportunities for consumer spending when at least 500 potential customers have voiced support for maintaining the current opening times is both short-sighted and, more importantly, counter-productive. It is also counter-intuitive to turn away potential income from what is a unique and distinctive local amenity and I regret and strongly deplore the market owners' contrary and blinkered decision.
As someone who works Monday to Friday and can only visit the market at weekends, I am disappointed that the market is due to close on Sundays. Sunday is a great day - and generally a more relaxing and less eventful one for me - to shop at the market; and this is something I often do. Reducing the opportunities for consumer spending when at least 500 potential customers have voiced support for maintaining the current opening times is both short-sighted and, more importantly, counter-productive. It is also counter-intuitive to turn away potential income from what is a unique and distinctive local amenity and I regret and strongly deplore the market owners' contrary and blinkered decision. DaveE17
  • Score: 3

4:20pm Wed 5 Mar 14

Helen, Walthamstow says...

I agree with jenjenten that the in-fighting we are witnessing here is no help at all.

The newer traders need to remember that the longer-serving ones have stuck with the market through some very thin times and will not be happy when their loyalty is being questioned by people who have been there for a very short period. The old hands should be able to learn some more up-to-date approaches to sales, via the internet for example and more tempting display from the later incomers.

I do think they should all get together to re-evaluate just what the market represents.

In my view, relying virtually solely on weekend trade is pointless. This is not Camden Market or Notting Hill or the Caledonia Road Market which are huge and attract people from all over London as well as tourists. It's a very small 40 unit mixed market in an unremarkable road in East London with no particular selling point, so traders need to keep the Waltham Forest population in mind.

By all means campaign for it to be kept open on Sundays, but if the traders really want to make it a success, they must start - together, in harmony - considering ways in which they can continue to attract shoppers during the week, and it doesn't help that some units seems to open for business, then close again, at the speed of light.
I agree with jenjenten that the in-fighting we are witnessing here is no help at all. The newer traders need to remember that the longer-serving ones have stuck with the market through some very thin times and will not be happy when their loyalty is being questioned by people who have been there for a very short period. The old hands should be able to learn some more up-to-date approaches to sales, via the internet for example and more tempting display from the later incomers. I do think they should all get together to re-evaluate just what the market represents. In my view, relying virtually solely on weekend trade is pointless. This is not Camden Market or Notting Hill or the Caledonia Road Market which are huge and attract people from all over London as well as tourists. It's a very small 40 unit mixed market in an unremarkable road in East London with no particular selling point, so traders need to keep the Waltham Forest population in mind. By all means campaign for it to be kept open on Sundays, but if the traders really want to make it a success, they must start - together, in harmony - considering ways in which they can continue to attract shoppers during the week, and it doesn't help that some units seems to open for business, then close again, at the speed of light. Helen, Walthamstow
  • Score: 5

6:01pm Wed 5 Mar 14

jenjenten says...

Helen, Walthamstow wrote:
I agree with jenjenten that the in-fighting we are witnessing here is no help at all.

The newer traders need to remember that the longer-serving ones have stuck with the market through some very thin times and will not be happy when their loyalty is being questioned by people who have been there for a very short period. The old hands should be able to learn some more up-to-date approaches to sales, via the internet for example and more tempting display from the later incomers.

I do think they should all get together to re-evaluate just what the market represents.

In my view, relying virtually solely on weekend trade is pointless. This is not Camden Market or Notting Hill or the Caledonia Road Market which are huge and attract people from all over London as well as tourists. It's a very small 40 unit mixed market in an unremarkable road in East London with no particular selling point, so traders need to keep the Waltham Forest population in mind.

By all means campaign for it to be kept open on Sundays, but if the traders really want to make it a success, they must start - together, in harmony - considering ways in which they can continue to attract shoppers during the week, and it doesn't help that some units seems to open for business, then close again, at the speed of light.
Helen - did you used to have a shop in there? Isn't it frustrating?! So much potential.

Maybe part of the problem is also part of the attraction - the units are so cheap that they allow people to run start ups but then they are also cheap enough to allow some people just to run it as a part time concern.

But the in-fighting is just ruining it for everyone and it's unhealthy to work in that environment let alone attract people to come in and shop.
[quote][p][bold]Helen, Walthamstow[/bold] wrote: I agree with jenjenten that the in-fighting we are witnessing here is no help at all. The newer traders need to remember that the longer-serving ones have stuck with the market through some very thin times and will not be happy when their loyalty is being questioned by people who have been there for a very short period. The old hands should be able to learn some more up-to-date approaches to sales, via the internet for example and more tempting display from the later incomers. I do think they should all get together to re-evaluate just what the market represents. In my view, relying virtually solely on weekend trade is pointless. This is not Camden Market or Notting Hill or the Caledonia Road Market which are huge and attract people from all over London as well as tourists. It's a very small 40 unit mixed market in an unremarkable road in East London with no particular selling point, so traders need to keep the Waltham Forest population in mind. By all means campaign for it to be kept open on Sundays, but if the traders really want to make it a success, they must start - together, in harmony - considering ways in which they can continue to attract shoppers during the week, and it doesn't help that some units seems to open for business, then close again, at the speed of light.[/p][/quote]Helen - did you used to have a shop in there? Isn't it frustrating?! So much potential. Maybe part of the problem is also part of the attraction - the units are so cheap that they allow people to run start ups but then they are also cheap enough to allow some people just to run it as a part time concern. But the in-fighting is just ruining it for everyone and it's unhealthy to work in that environment let alone attract people to come in and shop. jenjenten
  • Score: 3

8:23pm Wed 5 Mar 14

Helen, Walthamstow says...

No jenjenten, I've never run a stall anywhere more exciting than a school fete or a celebration in Lloyd Park. But I do know that even there you aren't going to make much money if you don't sell what a lot of people want and can afford.

There is a limited demand for vintage clothes and furniture and very expensive cakes and the like in the Wood Strret area and an insufficient number of these mini-shops in the market to attract customers away from the big markets which offer a plentiful choice of outlets - unless, that is, the traders can offer them a tempting

What that carrot could be is for the traders to identify, but they will not be able to do so while they are engaged in a verbal shooting war with each other.

Oh, and hands off Shells and Scrolls! That business has been serving local people from its unit in the market for many years, providing beautifully decorated celebration cakes at affordable prices. There have been many times when it and the records store have been the only places doing any reasonable business. If they had pulled out, there's a fair chance there would be no market now for everyone to get heated about.
No jenjenten, I've never run a stall anywhere more exciting than a school fete or a celebration in Lloyd Park. But I do know that even there you aren't going to make much money if you don't sell what a lot of people want and can afford. There is a limited demand for vintage clothes and furniture and very expensive cakes and the like in the Wood Strret area and an insufficient number of these mini-shops in the market to attract customers away from the big markets which offer a plentiful choice of outlets - unless, that is, the traders can offer them a tempting What that carrot could be is for the traders to identify, but they will not be able to do so while they are engaged in a verbal shooting war with each other. Oh, and hands off Shells and Scrolls! That business has been serving local people from its unit in the market for many years, providing beautifully decorated celebration cakes at affordable prices. There have been many times when it and the records store have been the only places doing any reasonable business. If they had pulled out, there's a fair chance there would be no market now for everyone to get heated about. Helen, Walthamstow
  • Score: 2

10:41pm Wed 5 Mar 14

Sir Matt of Wood Street says...

Helen, Walthamstow wrote:
I agree with jenjenten that the in-fighting we are witnessing here is no help at all.

The newer traders need to remember that the longer-serving ones have stuck with the market through some very thin times and will not be happy when their loyalty is being questioned by people who have been there for a very short period. The old hands should be able to learn some more up-to-date approaches to sales, via the internet for example and more tempting display from the later incomers.

I do think they should all get together to re-evaluate just what the market represents.

In my view, relying virtually solely on weekend trade is pointless. This is not Camden Market or Notting Hill or the Caledonia Road Market which are huge and attract people from all over London as well as tourists. It's a very small 40 unit mixed market in an unremarkable road in East London with no particular selling point, so traders need to keep the Waltham Forest population in mind.

By all means campaign for it to be kept open on Sundays, but if the traders really want to make it a success, they must start - together, in harmony - considering ways in which they can continue to attract shoppers during the week, and it doesn't help that some units seems to open for business, then close again, at the speed of light.
I don't know if I follow your logic there Helen. Sunday was a busy day at the market. Closing on one of your busiest days is not good business sense, and puts a lot more pressure on weekday sales. That's a fact and totally irrelevant to whatever happens in Camden or Notting Hill.

That's not to say it can't be a destination. I had palpitations the first time I feasted my eyes on all that vinyl. I've seen a few little groups of Japanese tourists stagger bewilderedly down the steps of Wood Street station, even a few French accents, and the French just don't muck about. If I can just don my cranberry-tinted spectacles for a second; I think its actually quite a cool little market in quite a cool little street right on the edge of a beautiful forest, an interesting mix of traditional and modern East London styling it large all the way up the street and in the streets beyond. Totally unlike a million London high streets. Vikings. Churros. Pie and Mash. A Neon Wonderland. A Jungle Tumble. Lots of selling points.

Also I think the not-unreasonably-pri
ced cake shop actually seems to be quite busy quite often, and seems to work as a bit of a magnet to attract that complex weekday demographic through the shutters. Good luck to them all. Although I do think you make your own luck.
[quote][p][bold]Helen, Walthamstow[/bold] wrote: I agree with jenjenten that the in-fighting we are witnessing here is no help at all. The newer traders need to remember that the longer-serving ones have stuck with the market through some very thin times and will not be happy when their loyalty is being questioned by people who have been there for a very short period. The old hands should be able to learn some more up-to-date approaches to sales, via the internet for example and more tempting display from the later incomers. I do think they should all get together to re-evaluate just what the market represents. In my view, relying virtually solely on weekend trade is pointless. This is not Camden Market or Notting Hill or the Caledonia Road Market which are huge and attract people from all over London as well as tourists. It's a very small 40 unit mixed market in an unremarkable road in East London with no particular selling point, so traders need to keep the Waltham Forest population in mind. By all means campaign for it to be kept open on Sundays, but if the traders really want to make it a success, they must start - together, in harmony - considering ways in which they can continue to attract shoppers during the week, and it doesn't help that some units seems to open for business, then close again, at the speed of light.[/p][/quote]I don't know if I follow your logic there Helen. Sunday was a busy day at the market. Closing on one of your busiest days is not good business sense, and puts a lot more pressure on weekday sales. That's a fact and totally irrelevant to whatever happens in Camden or Notting Hill. That's not to say it can't be a destination. I had palpitations the first time I feasted my eyes on all that vinyl. I've seen a few little groups of Japanese tourists stagger bewilderedly down the steps of Wood Street station, even a few French accents, and the French just don't muck about. If I can just don my cranberry-tinted spectacles for a second; I think its actually quite a cool little market in quite a cool little street right on the edge of a beautiful forest, an interesting mix of traditional and modern East London styling it large all the way up the street and in the streets beyond. Totally unlike a million London high streets. Vikings. Churros. Pie and Mash. A Neon Wonderland. A Jungle Tumble. Lots of selling points. Also I think the not-unreasonably-pri ced cake shop actually seems to be quite busy quite often, and seems to work as a bit of a magnet to attract that complex weekday demographic through the shutters. Good luck to them all. Although I do think you make your own luck. Sir Matt of Wood Street
  • Score: 1

11:02pm Wed 5 Mar 14

Arsenal red says...

I think there is a problem with conflicting interests. The caretaker APPEARS not to want to open on a Sunday, his wife who runs a cake shop does not open on a Sunday, she is in competition with the successful cake shop at the front of the market (who's busiest day is probably Sunday) And to top it all the owner would like to get rid of the whole market & build flats which understandably would make him a lot of money.

At the end of the day the owner either has to run the market for ALL the traders or sell it for lots of money. Sadly I think the latter is more likely. If this is incorrect I Apologise to those concerned
I think there is a problem with conflicting interests. The caretaker APPEARS not to want to open on a Sunday, his wife who runs a cake shop does not open on a Sunday, she is in competition with the successful cake shop at the front of the market (who's busiest day is probably Sunday) And to top it all the owner would like to get rid of the whole market & build flats which understandably would make him a lot of money. At the end of the day the owner either has to run the market for ALL the traders or sell it for lots of money. Sadly I think the latter is more likely. If this is incorrect I Apologise to those concerned Arsenal red
  • Score: 4

7:40am Thu 6 Mar 14

Helen, Walthamstow says...

Sir Matt, you did give me a little giggle. I fear you have donned cornbeefur's cranberry tinted glasses!

I've lived near Wood Street for decades, use its facilities regularly, and know quite a few traders. But Bonito's churros apart, and I'll give you the Viking Store (though I've never seen any customers in it), the rest is bog standard to put it kindly. Btw pie and mash shop closed a fortnight ago, Tumble in the Jungle is for children, and the neon place is not open to the public and doesn't look particularly lovely anyway.

The bewildered tourists were probably on their way to the William Morris Gallery, which is signposted from the station.

As for the Sunday opening at the market, that has been in place only since last autumn. Was it really so successful in trading terms, or were people just using it as a "walk through" on a wet Sunday? Not that I oppose it opening on Sunday - just asking if the rose-tinted glasses are in play.

I do agree with you, though, that you make your own luck and that's what the traders should be concentrating on instead of what comes over as a damaging squabble among themselves.
Sir Matt, you did give me a little giggle. I fear you have donned cornbeefur's cranberry tinted glasses! I've lived near Wood Street for decades, use its facilities regularly, and know quite a few traders. But Bonito's churros apart, and I'll give you the Viking Store (though I've never seen any customers in it), the rest is bog standard to put it kindly. Btw pie and mash shop closed a fortnight ago, Tumble in the Jungle is for children, and the neon place is not open to the public and doesn't look particularly lovely anyway. The bewildered tourists were probably on their way to the William Morris Gallery, which is signposted from the station. As for the Sunday opening at the market, that has been in place only since last autumn. Was it really so successful in trading terms, or were people just using it as a "walk through" on a wet Sunday? Not that I oppose it opening on Sunday - just asking if the rose-tinted glasses are in play. I do agree with you, though, that you make your own luck and that's what the traders should be concentrating on instead of what comes over as a damaging squabble among themselves. Helen, Walthamstow
  • Score: 0

10:16am Thu 6 Mar 14

Sir Matt of Wood Street says...

I moved my family to Wood Street five years ago, having lived all over London before, because I can see what it has to offer. I suppose it is a question of perspective. It might seem bog standard if you've got used to it.

I'll swop the pie and mash (RIP) for one of the best value chippies I've ever known, and throw in a cricket club for good measure. And indeed Tumble In The Jungle is for children: that is a good thing, kids need things to do too. The neon place, relocated locally, is open to the public and is quite incredible. I've directed a few people there from the station. Walthy Central is the closest stop for the WM Gallery.

But back to the story, yes, the traders that opened on a Sunday say it is very successful. That's what they're quoted as saying in the article. That's why they started the petition to keep it going. All cold hard metrics, nothing to do with perspective or eyewear.
I moved my family to Wood Street five years ago, having lived all over London before, because I can see what it has to offer. I suppose it is a question of perspective. It might seem bog standard if you've got used to it. I'll swop the pie and mash (RIP) for one of the best value chippies I've ever known, and throw in a cricket club for good measure. And indeed Tumble In The Jungle is for children: that is a good thing, kids need things to do too. The neon place, relocated locally, is open to the public and is quite incredible. I've directed a few people there from the station. Walthy Central is the closest stop for the WM Gallery. But back to the story, yes, the traders that opened on a Sunday say it is very successful. That's what they're quoted as saying in the article. That's why they started the petition to keep it going. All cold hard metrics, nothing to do with perspective or eyewear. Sir Matt of Wood Street
  • Score: 1

12:08pm Thu 6 Mar 14

mdj says...

' Maybe if they received a percentage of turnover rather than a fixed rent they would be far more active in promoting the market'

A key point; apparently this is a typical contractual arrangement in malls in the USA.
In the UK too many think that being a landlord is a one-way street, with rents always rising come rain or shine.

As with the Wm Morris Gallery, one weeps to see the wasted potential over many years of what could be a star asset.
This arcade is just next to a station that links directly to the City via Hackney; that's a lot of spending power: what promotion has ever been carried out outside the Borough?
When some of us were campaigning to save the Gallery, among other things we argued the scope to create a 'Day in Walthamstow' to tempt tourist cash away from the generic Zone 1 traps. This was to include the High St, the Gallery, a revitalised Granada, the Dog Track (RIP) the Hunting Lodge and Forest, the huge untapped potential of the Pump House as a technology museum of the Lea Valley (the Ironbridge of 20th-century industry) and the history of Wood St as the birthplace of British cinema.
It's all there to play for; but where is the will?
' Maybe if they received a percentage of turnover rather than a fixed rent they would be far more active in promoting the market' A key point; apparently this is a typical contractual arrangement in malls in the USA. In the UK too many think that being a landlord is a one-way street, with rents always rising come rain or shine. As with the Wm Morris Gallery, one weeps to see the wasted potential over many years of what could be a star asset. This arcade is just next to a station that links directly to the City via Hackney; that's a lot of spending power: what promotion has ever been carried out outside the Borough? When some of us were campaigning to save the Gallery, among other things we argued the scope to create a 'Day in Walthamstow' to tempt tourist cash away from the generic Zone 1 traps. This was to include the High St, the Gallery, a revitalised Granada, the Dog Track (RIP) the Hunting Lodge and Forest, the huge untapped potential of the Pump House as a technology museum of the Lea Valley (the Ironbridge of 20th-century industry) and the history of Wood St as the birthplace of British cinema. It's all there to play for; but where is the will? mdj
  • Score: 2

2:20pm Thu 6 Mar 14

RichieA70 says...

Helen, Walthamstow wrote:
Sir Matt, you did give me a little giggle. I fear you have donned cornbeefur's cranberry tinted glasses!

I've lived near Wood Street for decades, use its facilities regularly, and know quite a few traders. But Bonito's churros apart, and I'll give you the Viking Store (though I've never seen any customers in it), the rest is bog standard to put it kindly. Btw pie and mash shop closed a fortnight ago, Tumble in the Jungle is for children, and the neon place is not open to the public and doesn't look particularly lovely anyway.

The bewildered tourists were probably on their way to the William Morris Gallery, which is signposted from the station.

As for the Sunday opening at the market, that has been in place only since last autumn. Was it really so successful in trading terms, or were people just using it as a "walk through" on a wet Sunday? Not that I oppose it opening on Sunday - just asking if the rose-tinted glasses are in play.

I do agree with you, though, that you make your own luck and that's what the traders should be concentrating on instead of what comes over as a damaging squabble among themselves.
There is a bigger picture here.

From what I gather, all serious, successful markets like Wood Street open Sundays.

If the area is to flourish, the market needs to open all weekend which in turn will increase footfall in the area and help other businesses on the street. Even if currently too few people coming into the market on a Sunday were actually buying things, the fact they were able to access it - and therefore have the ability to spend money there or in nearby businesses is the crucial thing.

Just as Lot 107's closure on Sunday's benefits Bonitos, Bonitos benefits from Wood St market open Sundays.

The Sunday closure seems to partly down to narrow-minded protectionism of a few units in the market, coupled with an absence of management. If an insufficient proportion of unit holders weren't opening on Sunday or failing to turn up regularly, the management should get a grip and make them - or attract other people to take over.

I'm fed up hearing the market referred to as a 'hidden gem'. It should be an 'unhidden gem'. The fact it took the Mayor of London's Outer London Fund to help make the market more attractive speaks volumes. Nothing was stopping the markets owners from doing the same years ago. It doesn't cost much money and would have ultimately made them more money had they invested in adequate publicity and things to make the market more attractive. It still hasn't even got adequate heating throughout.

Yet again, this all comes down to an all too common thing that Walthamstow suffers from. Far too many buildings, sites and businesses are simply under the wrong ownership.

If only people like Andy & Louisa Potter could take it over. Just look at what they've achieved with the hugely popular Bell pub.
[quote][p][bold]Helen, Walthamstow[/bold] wrote: Sir Matt, you did give me a little giggle. I fear you have donned cornbeefur's cranberry tinted glasses! I've lived near Wood Street for decades, use its facilities regularly, and know quite a few traders. But Bonito's churros apart, and I'll give you the Viking Store (though I've never seen any customers in it), the rest is bog standard to put it kindly. Btw pie and mash shop closed a fortnight ago, Tumble in the Jungle is for children, and the neon place is not open to the public and doesn't look particularly lovely anyway. The bewildered tourists were probably on their way to the William Morris Gallery, which is signposted from the station. As for the Sunday opening at the market, that has been in place only since last autumn. Was it really so successful in trading terms, or were people just using it as a "walk through" on a wet Sunday? Not that I oppose it opening on Sunday - just asking if the rose-tinted glasses are in play. I do agree with you, though, that you make your own luck and that's what the traders should be concentrating on instead of what comes over as a damaging squabble among themselves.[/p][/quote]There is a bigger picture here. From what I gather, all serious, successful markets like Wood Street open Sundays. If the area is to flourish, the market needs to open all weekend which in turn will increase footfall in the area and help other businesses on the street. Even if currently too few people coming into the market on a Sunday were actually buying things, the fact they were able to access it - and therefore have the ability to spend money there or in nearby businesses is the crucial thing. Just as Lot 107's closure on Sunday's benefits Bonitos, Bonitos benefits from Wood St market open Sundays. The Sunday closure seems to partly down to narrow-minded protectionism of a few units in the market, coupled with an absence of management. If an insufficient proportion of unit holders weren't opening on Sunday or failing to turn up regularly, the management should get a grip and make them - or attract other people to take over. I'm fed up hearing the market referred to as a 'hidden gem'. It should be an 'unhidden gem'. The fact it took the Mayor of London's Outer London Fund to help make the market more attractive speaks volumes. Nothing was stopping the markets owners from doing the same years ago. It doesn't cost much money and would have ultimately made them more money had they invested in adequate publicity and things to make the market more attractive. It still hasn't even got adequate heating throughout. Yet again, this all comes down to an all too common thing that Walthamstow suffers from. Far too many buildings, sites and businesses are simply under the wrong ownership. If only people like Andy & Louisa Potter could take it over. Just look at what they've achieved with the hugely popular Bell pub. RichieA70
  • Score: 3

3:42pm Thu 6 Mar 14

jenjenten says...

The market has great potential. Walthamstow is changing - as a local this is sometimes indimidating admittedly - but it's also a great potential for growth and new people and new businesses. The market has great potential but old and new need to come together and if some of the old traders don't have to pay rent, they won't have the same motivating factors as the new businesses.

The new cake shop is amazing, and though it is a bit pricey it's brought in so much trade and that trade has been brought into other businesses there. They do a lot of marketing and that really pays off, and benefits all. And it should benefit the other cake shops as they are cheaper and more traditional which some people prefer.

I don't understand the issue with people just walking through - thats a great thing, to have people walking through in the first place - and of those people some will buy, some will tell friends/family and some will come back. Every business wants a continual stream of people walking through. If all they taste there is bitterness and closed businesses - it's unlikely they'll pass on a good word.

Is there any Wood Street Market businesses reading this? If so, please get it together, this is such bad publicity. You all want the same - start working together or the market will be lost for everyone.
The market has great potential. Walthamstow is changing - as a local this is sometimes indimidating admittedly - but it's also a great potential for growth and new people and new businesses. The market has great potential but old and new need to come together and if some of the old traders don't have to pay rent, they won't have the same motivating factors as the new businesses. The new cake shop is amazing, and though it is a bit pricey it's brought in so much trade and that trade has been brought into other businesses there. They do a lot of marketing and that really pays off, and benefits all. And it should benefit the other cake shops as they are cheaper and more traditional which some people prefer. I don't understand the issue with people just walking through - thats a great thing, to have people walking through in the first place - and of those people some will buy, some will tell friends/family and some will come back. Every business wants a continual stream of people walking through. If all they taste there is bitterness and closed businesses - it's unlikely they'll pass on a good word. Is there any Wood Street Market businesses reading this? If so, please get it together, this is such bad publicity. You all want the same - start working together or the market will be lost for everyone. jenjenten
  • Score: 0

4:16pm Thu 6 Mar 14

RichieA70 says...

jenjenten wrote:
The market has great potential. Walthamstow is changing - as a local this is sometimes indimidating admittedly - but it's also a great potential for growth and new people and new businesses. The market has great potential but old and new need to come together and if some of the old traders don't have to pay rent, they won't have the same motivating factors as the new businesses.

The new cake shop is amazing, and though it is a bit pricey it's brought in so much trade and that trade has been brought into other businesses there. They do a lot of marketing and that really pays off, and benefits all. And it should benefit the other cake shops as they are cheaper and more traditional which some people prefer.

I don't understand the issue with people just walking through - thats a great thing, to have people walking through in the first place - and of those people some will buy, some will tell friends/family and some will come back. Every business wants a continual stream of people walking through. If all they taste there is bitterness and closed businesses - it's unlikely they'll pass on a good word.

Is there any Wood Street Market businesses reading this? If so, please get it together, this is such bad publicity. You all want the same - start working together or the market will be lost for everyone.
Couldn't agree more jenjenten. Maybe the management half want housing on the site and half want the market to continue. Housing may well win in that case.

Management needs to actually manage and publicise this market effectively and unit holders must unite.

The Sunday trading act came in 20 years ago. It's madness to pretend you can keep a site of this scale closed on Sundays now. Unless of course Westfield and all the lovely quirky markets like Wood St also decide to close on Sundays.
[quote][p][bold]jenjenten[/bold] wrote: The market has great potential. Walthamstow is changing - as a local this is sometimes indimidating admittedly - but it's also a great potential for growth and new people and new businesses. The market has great potential but old and new need to come together and if some of the old traders don't have to pay rent, they won't have the same motivating factors as the new businesses. The new cake shop is amazing, and though it is a bit pricey it's brought in so much trade and that trade has been brought into other businesses there. They do a lot of marketing and that really pays off, and benefits all. And it should benefit the other cake shops as they are cheaper and more traditional which some people prefer. I don't understand the issue with people just walking through - thats a great thing, to have people walking through in the first place - and of those people some will buy, some will tell friends/family and some will come back. Every business wants a continual stream of people walking through. If all they taste there is bitterness and closed businesses - it's unlikely they'll pass on a good word. Is there any Wood Street Market businesses reading this? If so, please get it together, this is such bad publicity. You all want the same - start working together or the market will be lost for everyone.[/p][/quote]Couldn't agree more jenjenten. Maybe the management half want housing on the site and half want the market to continue. Housing may well win in that case. Management needs to actually manage and publicise this market effectively and unit holders must unite. The Sunday trading act came in 20 years ago. It's madness to pretend you can keep a site of this scale closed on Sundays now. Unless of course Westfield and all the lovely quirky markets like Wood St also decide to close on Sundays. RichieA70
  • Score: 0

9:50am Sat 8 Mar 14

Villagecranberry says...

I think it all went down hill since the postman with his young girlfriend in the RaRa skirt stopped jiving down there, they were an attraction.
I think it all went down hill since the postman with his young girlfriend in the RaRa skirt stopped jiving down there, they were an attraction. Villagecranberry
  • Score: -2

2:18pm Sat 8 Mar 14

Helen, Walthamstow says...

I took a stroll through the market late this morning to see if I was being unfair judging it by weekday visits.

There were only a handful of members of the public wandering around. Around a third of the units were either not in use or there was no-one present to serve any customers. Some had notices on their doors saying they were closed.

I saw customers in only two units - the long-standing record shop at the top of the "collectibles" aisle and four people drinking coffee (and presumably eating cakes) at the seats outside Aura Rose.
I took a stroll through the market late this morning to see if I was being unfair judging it by weekday visits. There were only a handful of members of the public wandering around. Around a third of the units were either not in use or there was no-one present to serve any customers. Some had notices on their doors saying they were closed. I saw customers in only two units - the long-standing record shop at the top of the "collectibles" aisle and four people drinking coffee (and presumably eating cakes) at the seats outside Aura Rose. Helen, Walthamstow
  • Score: 2

5:28pm Sun 9 Mar 14

jenjenten says...

Helen, Walthamstow wrote:
I took a stroll through the market late this morning to see if I was being unfair judging it by weekday visits.

There were only a handful of members of the public wandering around. Around a third of the units were either not in use or there was no-one present to serve any customers. Some had notices on their doors saying they were closed.

I saw customers in only two units - the long-standing record shop at the top of the "collectibles" aisle and four people drinking coffee (and presumably eating cakes) at the seats outside Aura Rose.
I went down today and it was really busy, not all shops were open but lots of people browsing, buying and eating cake too :)
[quote][p][bold]Helen, Walthamstow[/bold] wrote: I took a stroll through the market late this morning to see if I was being unfair judging it by weekday visits. There were only a handful of members of the public wandering around. Around a third of the units were either not in use or there was no-one present to serve any customers. Some had notices on their doors saying they were closed. I saw customers in only two units - the long-standing record shop at the top of the "collectibles" aisle and four people drinking coffee (and presumably eating cakes) at the seats outside Aura Rose.[/p][/quote]I went down today and it was really busy, not all shops were open but lots of people browsing, buying and eating cake too :) jenjenten
  • Score: 0

2:46pm Tue 11 Mar 14

sunnyyellow says...

Arsenal red wrote:
I think there is a problem with conflicting interests. The caretaker APPEARS not to want to open on a Sunday, his wife who runs a cake shop does not open on a Sunday, she is in competition with the successful cake shop at the front of the market (who's busiest day is probably Sunday) And to top it all the owner would like to get rid of the whole market & build flats which understandably would make him a lot of money.

At the end of the day the owner either has to run the market for ALL the traders or sell it for lots of money. Sadly I think the latter is more likely. If this is incorrect I Apologise to those concerned
am I right in thinking your referring to scrolls and shells, the cake shop that's been trading in the market for 17 years, has got 37 years experience in the trade, has a window full of qualifications, has a 5 star hygiene rating, is a registered lecturer teaching her craft at many college,s and venues, has been endorsed in person by boris jonson and many prominent figures over her career, has been filmed, photographed, and interviewed regarding her craft on many occasions too many times to remember, the premises are open 10am to 5-30pm every day, always has been.--------so you think she is worried about the cake shop that's been in the market a year, does not open until lunch time on occasions does not open at all, has no hygiene rating what so ever,mouse droppings and urine over worktops, counters, shelves,and floors, and the odd nibbled biscuit, come down before dinner time and see for yourselves, don,t take our word for it.----------I don,t think she has too much to worry about.---------these are facts not fairytales, not like most of the b******s that's written on here by ill informed people. ps she is not married to the caretaker!
[quote][p][bold]Arsenal red[/bold] wrote: I think there is a problem with conflicting interests. The caretaker APPEARS not to want to open on a Sunday, his wife who runs a cake shop does not open on a Sunday, she is in competition with the successful cake shop at the front of the market (who's busiest day is probably Sunday) And to top it all the owner would like to get rid of the whole market & build flats which understandably would make him a lot of money. At the end of the day the owner either has to run the market for ALL the traders or sell it for lots of money. Sadly I think the latter is more likely. If this is incorrect I Apologise to those concerned[/p][/quote]am I right in thinking your referring to scrolls and shells, the cake shop that's been trading in the market for 17 years, has got 37 years experience in the trade, has a window full of qualifications, has a 5 star hygiene rating, is a registered lecturer teaching her craft at many college,s and venues, has been endorsed in person by boris jonson and many prominent figures over her career, has been filmed, photographed, and interviewed regarding her craft on many occasions too many times to remember, the premises are open 10am to 5-30pm every day, always has been.--------so you think she is worried about the cake shop that's been in the market a year, does not open until lunch time on occasions does not open at all, has no hygiene rating what so ever,mouse droppings and urine over worktops, counters, shelves,and floors, and the odd nibbled biscuit, come down before dinner time and see for yourselves, don,t take our word for it.----------I don,t think she has too much to worry about.---------these are facts not fairytales, not like most of the b******s that's written on here by ill informed people. ps she is not married to the caretaker! sunnyyellow
  • Score: 2

3:04pm Tue 11 Mar 14

westham2014 says...

Arsenal red wrote:
I think there is a problem with conflicting interests. The caretaker APPEARS not to want to open on a Sunday, his wife who runs a cake shop does not open on a Sunday, she is in competition with the successful cake shop at the front of the market (who's busiest day is probably Sunday) And to top it all the owner would like to get rid of the whole market & build flats which understandably would make him a lot of money.

At the end of the day the owner either has to run the market for ALL the traders or sell it for lots of money. Sadly I think the latter is more likely. If this is incorrect I Apologise to those concerned
I am wondering how you have formed the opinion that Scrolls and Shells is not as successful as Aura Rose?. As they are 2 different types of cake shops. Aura Rose is a patisserie/coffee shop and Scrolls and Shells make wedding, birthday cakes to order.

I could be wrong but unless your their accountant not quite sure how you get to that conclusion?
[quote][p][bold]Arsenal red[/bold] wrote: I think there is a problem with conflicting interests. The caretaker APPEARS not to want to open on a Sunday, his wife who runs a cake shop does not open on a Sunday, she is in competition with the successful cake shop at the front of the market (who's busiest day is probably Sunday) And to top it all the owner would like to get rid of the whole market & build flats which understandably would make him a lot of money. At the end of the day the owner either has to run the market for ALL the traders or sell it for lots of money. Sadly I think the latter is more likely. If this is incorrect I Apologise to those concerned[/p][/quote]I am wondering how you have formed the opinion that Scrolls and Shells is not as successful as Aura Rose?. As they are 2 different types of cake shops. Aura Rose is a patisserie/coffee shop and Scrolls and Shells make wedding, birthday cakes to order. I could be wrong but unless your their accountant not quite sure how you get to that conclusion? westham2014
  • Score: 0

3:20pm Tue 11 Mar 14

sunnyyellow says...

Arsenal red wrote:
I think there is a problem with conflicting interests. The caretaker APPEARS not to want to open on a Sunday, his wife who runs a cake shop does not open on a Sunday, she is in competition with the successful cake shop at the front of the market (who's busiest day is probably Sunday) And to top it all the owner would like to get rid of the whole market & build flats which understandably would make him a lot of money.

At the end of the day the owner either has to run the market for ALL the traders or sell it for lots of money. Sadly I think the latter is more likely. If this is incorrect I Apologise to those concerned
am I right in thinking your referring to scrolls and shells, the cake shop that's been trading in the market for 17 years, has got 37 years experience in the trade, has a window full of qualifications, has a 5 star hygiene rating, is a registered lecturer teaching her craft at many college,s and venues, has been endorsed in person by boris jonson and many prominent figures over her career, has been filmed, photographed, and interviewed regarding her craft on many occasions too many times to remember, the premises are open 10am to 5-30pm every day, always has been.--------so you think she is worried about the cake shop that's been in the market a year, does not open until lunch time on occasions does not open at all, has no hygiene rating what so ever,mouse droppings and urine over worktops, counters, shelves,and floors, and the odd nibbled biscuit, come down before dinner time and see for yourselves, don,t take our word for it.----------I don,t think she has too much to worry about.---------these are facts not fairytales, not like most of the b******s that's written on here by ill informed people. ps she is not married to the caretaker!
[quote][p][bold]Arsenal red[/bold] wrote: I think there is a problem with conflicting interests. The caretaker APPEARS not to want to open on a Sunday, his wife who runs a cake shop does not open on a Sunday, she is in competition with the successful cake shop at the front of the market (who's busiest day is probably Sunday) And to top it all the owner would like to get rid of the whole market & build flats which understandably would make him a lot of money. At the end of the day the owner either has to run the market for ALL the traders or sell it for lots of money. Sadly I think the latter is more likely. If this is incorrect I Apologise to those concerned[/p][/quote]am I right in thinking your referring to scrolls and shells, the cake shop that's been trading in the market for 17 years, has got 37 years experience in the trade, has a window full of qualifications, has a 5 star hygiene rating, is a registered lecturer teaching her craft at many college,s and venues, has been endorsed in person by boris jonson and many prominent figures over her career, has been filmed, photographed, and interviewed regarding her craft on many occasions too many times to remember, the premises are open 10am to 5-30pm every day, always has been.--------so you think she is worried about the cake shop that's been in the market a year, does not open until lunch time on occasions does not open at all, has no hygiene rating what so ever,mouse droppings and urine over worktops, counters, shelves,and floors, and the odd nibbled biscuit, come down before dinner time and see for yourselves, don,t take our word for it.----------I don,t think she has too much to worry about.---------these are facts not fairytales, not like most of the b******s that's written on here by ill informed people. ps she is not married to the caretaker! sunnyyellow
  • Score: 0

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