Seven out of the eight sandwich stores in Waltham Forest offer a halal-only menu

Subway in Church Lane, Leytonstone offers Turkey-based products instead of pork

Subway in Church Lane, Leytonstone offers Turkey-based products instead of pork

First published in News
Last updated
East London and West Essex Guardian Series: Photograph of the Author by , Reporter - Waltham Forest

The vast majority of Subway stores in Waltham Forest operate under a halal-only policy, it has emerged.

Seven out of eight stores across the borough substitute pork products, such as bacon and ham, with turkey-based ham and rashers, and its salami and pepperoni is beef-based.

Consuming pig-based products is forbidden under Islamic law and the halal-process sees animlas slaughtered by cutting the jugular vein, carotid artery and windpipe, with the carcass completely drained of blood.

Critics say it causes unnecessary suffering to the animals and the revelation that not all halal meat is not labelled in shops, takeways and supermarkets has prompted a national debate on the issue.

The Subway outlets offering a Halal only menu in the borough are Hall Lane in Chingford, Lea Bridge Road and Leyton Mills retail park in Leyton, Church Lane in Leytonstone, Hoe Street, Selbourne Walk and St James Street in Walthamstow.

Subway in Larkshall Road, Highams Park, is the only store to serve the traditional Subway menu containing bacon, ham, salami and pepperoni.

The 'Eat Fresh' franchise has confirmed all of its suppliers "comply with the EU animal welfare legislation as a minimum and we require suppliers of Halal products to adopt the stunning of animals prior to slaughter".

A Subway spokeswoman said: "Customers have many choices as to which store they want to visit since there are over 1,700 Subways stores across the UK and Ireland.

"All Halal meats are certified by the appropriate Halal authorities and all Halal stores have numerous signs stating that they serve Halal food.

"These are situated on the menu panels, nutritional information and in the front window of the store."

Joseph Wright, 19, of Chivers Road in Chingford is a regular customer at the Hall Lane store.

He said: "It all tastes the same; it doesn't matter too much where you eat. I understand if people do not know its pork then, yeah it can become an issue.

"Also, I do think the method of killing is a bit inhumane."

A Waltham Forest resident, who wished to remain anonymous, compared the mass selling of Halal meat as comparable to the horsemeat scandal.

She added: "There is a bit of confusion going on as people want to be made aware of what they're eating and the animal welfare side of it bother me."

Muslim Tharik Hussain, 35, of Oak Hill in Woodford Green, blamed the UK media for "scaremongering" over the isuue.

He said: "The meat doesn't have to be Halal but if it is, is shouldn't be a big issue. For Muslims it's definitely something they want to have as vegetarian options are not appealing.

"I do think the majority of Halal meat is ethically killed and stunning of animals is not more humane than slaughtering, although I do accept that not all meat labelled as Halal is ethical.

"Although transparency is essential and everybody has a right to know what meat they're consuming, but the harsh reality is, demand has gone through the roof, Halal is a cheaper option and we live in a capitalist society."

All of the major supermarkets chains in the UK sell some halal chicken, lamb and beef without labelling the products as such..

Comments (33)

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8:44am Fri 9 May 14

Techno3 says...

Subway food is bland and poor value.
Subway food is bland and poor value. Techno3
  • Score: 20

9:11am Fri 9 May 14

Villagecranberry says...

Techno3 wrote:
Subway food is bland and poor value.
Every branch I have gone into has a pungent aroma inside.

I have never bought a sandwich just a drink, cannot understand the concept of them as surely people can make their own sandwich? If I am out and fancy a sarnie I buy a couple of rolls and a filling and make my own.
[quote][p][bold]Techno3[/bold] wrote: Subway food is bland and poor value.[/p][/quote]Every branch I have gone into has a pungent aroma inside. I have never bought a sandwich just a drink, cannot understand the concept of them as surely people can make their own sandwich? If I am out and fancy a sarnie I buy a couple of rolls and a filling and make my own. Villagecranberry
  • Score: 17

10:20am Fri 9 May 14

everoptimistic says...

At least Subway say that they make it clear if meat in their products is Halal. I believe that in many schools in the borough halal only meat is provided but this is not publicised on school literature or on the Waltham Forest Catering menus given out to parents. Perhaps someone from the council would like to comment.
At least Subway say that they make it clear if meat in their products is Halal. I believe that in many schools in the borough halal only meat is provided but this is not publicised on school literature or on the Waltham Forest Catering menus given out to parents. Perhaps someone from the council would like to comment. everoptimistic
  • Score: 25

10:36am Fri 9 May 14

myopinioncounts says...

I want to be assured that the meat I am buying, or being served in a restaurant. school or hospital, etc. has NOT been ritually slaughtered. New Zealand lamb is (apparently) not fully stunned prior to slaughter. The reason given is that the animal could recover from the stunning so is according to islamic 'not dead' before it's throat is cut and therefore fit to eat.
How in the name of science is this practice justified ?
I want to be assured that the meat I am buying, or being served in a restaurant. school or hospital, etc. has NOT been ritually slaughtered. New Zealand lamb is (apparently) not fully stunned prior to slaughter. The reason given is that the animal could recover from the stunning so is according to islamic 'not dead' before it's throat is cut and therefore fit to eat. How in the name of science is this practice justified ? myopinioncounts
  • Score: 26

10:51am Fri 9 May 14

kirstywright says...

if it says halal meat served -- I just walk straight by - go somewhere else - at least if I'm warned I have the choice.
if it says halal meat served -- I just walk straight by - go somewhere else - at least if I'm warned I have the choice. kirstywright
  • Score: 35

11:00am Fri 9 May 14

ViewpointE4 says...

Same story that's running in the national papers.

Its quite probable that the majority of food outlets in WF are selling halal slaughtered meat. This is a reflection of the local population, whether that be for religious reasons or others who have no issues on how the animal is slaughtered.

The law needs to be strict in in regard to all food outlets (incl. their menu's/packaging) selling halal slaughtered meat products, in that they must be clearly signed or labelled.

Individuals can then make their own choice in full knowledge of what they are and consuming.
Same story that's running in the national papers. Its quite probable that the majority of food outlets in WF are selling halal slaughtered meat. This is a reflection of the local population, whether that be for religious reasons or others who have no issues on how the animal is slaughtered. The law needs to be strict in in regard to all food outlets (incl. their menu's/packaging) selling halal slaughtered meat products, in that they must be clearly signed or labelled. Individuals can then make their own choice in full knowledge of what they are and consuming. ViewpointE4
  • Score: 22

11:17am Fri 9 May 14

Villagecranberry says...

Failure to stun an animal before slaughter is barbaric, other animals waiting their turn sense the stress and it is just not right.

There was a programme on TV that was called 'Kill it, cook it, eat it' showing how various animals are humanely slaughtered in the UK. It was an interesting programme but still distressing in parts but I can only imagine the horror that occurs when animals are not stunned.

Apart from Halal and Kosher, I am more concerned with what is actually the meat in take away food and have stopped eating out in curry houses and kebab shops as it is all rather dubious, especially after the horse meat scandal.
Failure to stun an animal before slaughter is barbaric, other animals waiting their turn sense the stress and it is just not right. There was a programme on TV that was called 'Kill it, cook it, eat it' showing how various animals are humanely slaughtered in the UK. It was an interesting programme but still distressing in parts but I can only imagine the horror that occurs when animals are not stunned. Apart from Halal and Kosher, I am more concerned with what is actually the meat in take away food and have stopped eating out in curry houses and kebab shops as it is all rather dubious, especially after the horse meat scandal. Villagecranberry
  • Score: 24

11:35am Fri 9 May 14

everoptimistic says...

In an ideal world we would all be vegetarians. No animals would suffer. Soya, corn etc. that is now to fed to animals to fatten them up for human consumption could be used to alleviate the world's food poverty. Less animals, less methane. Sorry, I'm an old hippy and think we should care more about the state of the world than stuffing our own stomachs.
Also, why are we transporting lamb from the other side of the world when we produce plenty ourselves? Probably because it is cheaper and because rules on halal slaughter are less stringent than in the EU.
In an ideal world we would all be vegetarians. No animals would suffer. Soya, corn etc. that is now to fed to animals to fatten them up for human consumption could be used to alleviate the world's food poverty. Less animals, less methane. Sorry, I'm an old hippy and think we should care more about the state of the world than stuffing our own stomachs. Also, why are we transporting lamb from the other side of the world when we produce plenty ourselves? Probably because it is cheaper and because rules on halal slaughter are less stringent than in the EU. everoptimistic
  • Score: 7

11:43am Fri 9 May 14

cynicalsue says...

Villagecranberry wrote:
Techno3 wrote:
Subway food is bland and poor value.
Every branch I have gone into has a pungent aroma inside.

I have never bought a sandwich just a drink, cannot understand the concept of them as surely people can make their own sandwich? If I am out and fancy a sarnie I buy a couple of rolls and a filling and make my own.
For once I agree with Corny. If I want a sandwich I'd make one; failing that Greggs is OK!
Shan't be using Subway. Ever.
[quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Techno3[/bold] wrote: Subway food is bland and poor value.[/p][/quote]Every branch I have gone into has a pungent aroma inside. I have never bought a sandwich just a drink, cannot understand the concept of them as surely people can make their own sandwich? If I am out and fancy a sarnie I buy a couple of rolls and a filling and make my own.[/p][/quote]For once I agree with Corny. If I want a sandwich I'd make one; failing that Greggs is OK! Shan't be using Subway. Ever. cynicalsue
  • Score: 21

12:17pm Fri 9 May 14

mdj says...

For a while I've jokingly wondered whether Mrs Harman's equalities legislation entitled me to go into a Kosher or Halal butcher and demand pork.
Yet again, reality has left the satirists out of work, since it seems we can't get a bacon sarnie in Subway.

There are two main issues here.
First is that most peoples' concern is with the humanity of the slaughter method. Since some Halal authorities licence meat that HAS been stunned, the fact that the meat is Halal in itself would not bother any but a tiny minority. But we want to know what we are buying.

The other is the simple one of compliance with the law.
Humane (this point will always be arguable) slaughter methods are laid down by statute, and exemptions allowed to people whose religious faith would be unduly impaired by compliance.
As a result, anyone who sets up to sell, or agrees to buy, meat not stunned according to law who is not Muslim is breaking that law. That includes all councils who provide only halal meat in schools, and the rest of us who patronise kebab shops.

A culture that develops a pick- and- mix approach to obedience to the law risks anarchy at one level and arbitrary use of power at the other.

This is why the Council's slapdash respect for its own rules when they are inconvenient , and the proliferation of officials with confusingly unclear powers, are dangers to the Rule of Law which protects us all.

In this case, perhaps we could clarify where things lie by going into Subway and asking for a ham sandwich.
For a while I've jokingly wondered whether Mrs Harman's equalities legislation entitled me to go into a Kosher or Halal butcher and demand pork. Yet again, reality has left the satirists out of work, since it seems we can't get a bacon sarnie in Subway. There are two main issues here. First is that most peoples' concern is with the humanity of the slaughter method. Since some Halal authorities licence meat that HAS been stunned, the fact that the meat is Halal in itself would not bother any but a tiny minority. But we want to know what we are buying. The other is the simple one of compliance with the law. Humane (this point will always be arguable) slaughter methods are laid down by statute, and exemptions allowed to people whose religious faith would be unduly impaired by compliance. As a result, anyone who sets up to sell, or agrees to buy, meat not stunned according to law who is not Muslim is breaking that law. That includes all councils who provide only halal meat in schools, and the rest of us who patronise kebab shops. A culture that develops a pick- and- mix approach to obedience to the law risks anarchy at one level and arbitrary use of power at the other. This is why the Council's slapdash respect for its own rules when they are inconvenient , and the proliferation of officials with confusingly unclear powers, are dangers to the Rule of Law which protects us all. In this case, perhaps we could clarify where things lie by going into Subway and asking for a ham sandwich. mdj
  • Score: 16

12:30pm Fri 9 May 14

everoptimistic says...

I think MJD is correct about the law.

'The other is the simple one of compliance with the law.
Humane (this point will always be arguable) slaughter methods are laid down by statute, and exemptions allowed to people whose religious faith would be unduly impaired by compliance.
As a result, anyone who sets up to sell, or agrees to buy, meat not stunned according to law who is not Muslim is breaking that law. That includes all councils who provide only halal meat in schools, and the rest of us who patronise kebab shops.

A culture that develops a pick- and- mix approach to obedience to the law risks anarchy at one level and arbitrary use of power at the other.'

It cannot be right to only offer only halal meat to children at school dinners. Parents are given a menu at the beginning of term showing what will be served over a three week period. Vegetarian options are marked, fish dishes carry a 'sustainable' logo but no mention is made of which dishes are halal and which are not. This is probably because all the meat dishes are halal. So if you have welfare or religious reasons to avoid meat slaughtered by halal methods where is your choice. And how do parents who want halal food for their children know which dishes to choose? Please LBWF label your school meals properly - there is plenty of room on the sheet for this. That way parents and children can make an informed choice.
I think MJD is correct about the law. 'The other is the simple one of compliance with the law. Humane (this point will always be arguable) slaughter methods are laid down by statute, and exemptions allowed to people whose religious faith would be unduly impaired by compliance. As a result, anyone who sets up to sell, or agrees to buy, meat not stunned according to law who is not Muslim is breaking that law. That includes all councils who provide only halal meat in schools, and the rest of us who patronise kebab shops. A culture that develops a pick- and- mix approach to obedience to the law risks anarchy at one level and arbitrary use of power at the other.' It cannot be right to only offer only halal meat to children at school dinners. Parents are given a menu at the beginning of term showing what will be served over a three week period. Vegetarian options are marked, fish dishes carry a 'sustainable' logo but no mention is made of which dishes are halal and which are not. This is probably because all the meat dishes are halal. So if you have welfare or religious reasons to avoid meat slaughtered by halal methods where is your choice. And how do parents who want halal food for their children know which dishes to choose? Please LBWF label your school meals properly - there is plenty of room on the sheet for this. That way parents and children can make an informed choice. everoptimistic
  • Score: 6

1:41pm Fri 9 May 14

G_Whiz says...

Quite a few videos of Halal slaughter online - all of them are gruesome - i don't recommend any of you watching them.

I never will again.

And i'll never eat Halal again.

Our way of of stunning them first is bad enough, but Halal is on another level! sickening!
Quite a few videos of Halal slaughter online - all of them are gruesome - i don't recommend any of you watching them. I never will again. And i'll never eat Halal again. Our way of of stunning them first is bad enough, but Halal is on another level! sickening! G_Whiz
  • Score: 20

1:49pm Fri 9 May 14

mdj says...

'Parents are given a menu at the beginning of term.. no mention is made of which dishes are halal and which are not. This is probably because all the meat dishes are halal. '

Does this mean that pork products are not purchased by schools? How does this stand under rules for fair competition?
'Parents are given a menu at the beginning of term.. no mention is made of which dishes are halal and which are not. This is probably because all the meat dishes are halal. ' Does this mean that pork products are not purchased by schools? How does this stand under rules for fair competition? mdj
  • Score: 13

1:57pm Fri 9 May 14

myopinioncounts says...

Years ago Halal only food was secretly introduced into the school I worked in. It was only by chance that I overheard the school secretary assuring a muslim parent that the dinners were halal. When I challenged the Head as to why the whole staff and all parents were not consulted beforehand she had the mind numbing arrogance to tell me that only the muslim parents 'needed to know'! It was made quite clear that my objection was considered 'racist' and I was not to make a fuss. The school cook told me that the halal meat was actually MORE expensive to buy.
Years ago Halal only food was secretly introduced into the school I worked in. It was only by chance that I overheard the school secretary assuring a muslim parent that the dinners were halal. When I challenged the Head as to why the whole staff and all parents were not consulted beforehand she had the mind numbing arrogance to tell me that only the muslim parents 'needed to know'! It was made quite clear that my objection was considered 'racist' and I was not to make a fuss. The school cook told me that the halal meat was actually MORE expensive to buy. myopinioncounts
  • Score: 20

2:18pm Fri 9 May 14

Mark Dawes says...

The vast majority of halal slaughter in this country is pre-stunned before the animal is killed as is lamb from NZ. From an animal welfare point of view, the important labelling would be whether the animal was pre-stunned or not before being killed rather than religious.
The vast majority of halal slaughter in this country is pre-stunned before the animal is killed as is lamb from NZ. From an animal welfare point of view, the important labelling would be whether the animal was pre-stunned or not before being killed rather than religious. Mark Dawes
  • Score: 3

2:35pm Fri 9 May 14

Mark Dawes says...

Just to add that from an animal welfare point of view, pre-stunning is less cruel so all slaughter should be pre-stunned. Of course, pre-stunned slaughter is still cruel though and not eating meat is the best way to avoid cruelty!
Just to add that from an animal welfare point of view, pre-stunning is less cruel so all slaughter should be pre-stunned. Of course, pre-stunned slaughter is still cruel though and not eating meat is the best way to avoid cruelty! Mark Dawes
  • Score: 4

3:32pm Fri 9 May 14

Villagecranberry says...

I went to buy a piece of chicken in a butcher shop down the High Street Walthamstow a couple of years ago and the butcher was dressed as
Lional Richie

He stared at me quite intensely then began to sing.....

'Halal, is it meat you are looking for?' he softly mouthed.
I went to buy a piece of chicken in a butcher shop down the High Street Walthamstow a couple of years ago and the butcher was dressed as Lional Richie He stared at me quite intensely then began to sing..... 'Halal, is it meat you are looking for?' he softly mouthed. Villagecranberry
  • Score: -2

4:43pm Fri 9 May 14

Villagecranberry says...

Mark Dawes wrote:
Just to add that from an animal welfare point of view, pre-stunning is less cruel so all slaughter should be pre-stunned. Of course, pre-stunned slaughter is still cruel though and not eating meat is the best way to avoid cruelty!
If nobody ate meat, what would be the point of the vast majority of raising animals as if one was vegan they would not consume dairy either. Imagine the farming jobs that would be lost. You are correct in what you say, it is cruel but if animals are humanely slaughtered this is better than ritualistic slaughtering. I am in two minds about the health benefits. Vegetarianism did not help Linda McCartney too well.
[quote][p][bold]Mark Dawes[/bold] wrote: Just to add that from an animal welfare point of view, pre-stunning is less cruel so all slaughter should be pre-stunned. Of course, pre-stunned slaughter is still cruel though and not eating meat is the best way to avoid cruelty![/p][/quote]If nobody ate meat, what would be the point of the vast majority of raising animals as if one was vegan they would not consume dairy either. Imagine the farming jobs that would be lost. You are correct in what you say, it is cruel but if animals are humanely slaughtered this is better than ritualistic slaughtering. I am in two minds about the health benefits. Vegetarianism did not help Linda McCartney too well. Villagecranberry
  • Score: -4

6:13pm Fri 9 May 14

kirstywright says...

Villagecranberry wrote:
Failure to stun an animal before slaughter is barbaric, other animals waiting their turn sense the stress and it is just not right.

There was a programme on TV that was called 'Kill it, cook it, eat it' showing how various animals are humanely slaughtered in the UK. It was an interesting programme but still distressing in parts but I can only imagine the horror that occurs when animals are not stunned.

Apart from Halal and Kosher, I am more concerned with what is actually the meat in take away food and have stopped eating out in curry houses and kebab shops as it is all rather dubious, especially after the horse meat scandal.
again i agree - i saw that TV show and the images are still in my mind - I knew a manager who worked for the ministry in food and part of his job was to visit these slaughter houses and he always said that if everyone saw went on the meat sales would drop dramatically - the thought of an animal having its throat cut and hung up to die for as long as 2 mins or more is totally medieval. Ask yourself if you had a choice to die would you want your throat cut and hung upside down seeing your blood pour over your eyes as you slowly die or a bullet to the brain...... the later always wins. and yes I do eat meat but also feel the animal should be killed as humanly and here is the key word ..QUICKLY as possible.
[quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: Failure to stun an animal before slaughter is barbaric, other animals waiting their turn sense the stress and it is just not right. There was a programme on TV that was called 'Kill it, cook it, eat it' showing how various animals are humanely slaughtered in the UK. It was an interesting programme but still distressing in parts but I can only imagine the horror that occurs when animals are not stunned. Apart from Halal and Kosher, I am more concerned with what is actually the meat in take away food and have stopped eating out in curry houses and kebab shops as it is all rather dubious, especially after the horse meat scandal.[/p][/quote]again i agree - i saw that TV show and the images are still in my mind - I knew a manager who worked for the ministry in food and part of his job was to visit these slaughter houses and he always said that if everyone saw went on the meat sales would drop dramatically - the thought of an animal having its throat cut and hung up to die for as long as 2 mins or more is totally medieval. Ask yourself if you had a choice to die would you want your throat cut and hung upside down seeing your blood pour over your eyes as you slowly die or a bullet to the brain...... the later always wins. and yes I do eat meat but also feel the animal should be killed as humanly and here is the key word ..QUICKLY as possible. kirstywright
  • Score: 11

6:17pm Fri 9 May 14

kirstywright says...

Villagecranberry wrote:
Failure to stun an animal before slaughter is barbaric, other animals waiting their turn sense the stress and it is just not right.

There was a programme on TV that was called 'Kill it, cook it, eat it' showing how various animals are humanely slaughtered in the UK. It was an interesting programme but still distressing in parts but I can only imagine the horror that occurs when animals are not stunned.

Apart from Halal and Kosher, I am more concerned with what is actually the meat in take away food and have stopped eating out in curry houses and kebab shops as it is all rather dubious, especially after the horse meat scandal.
again i agree - i saw that TV show and the images are still in my mind - I knew a manager who worked for the ministry in food and part of his job was to visit these slaughter houses and he always said that if everyone saw went on the meat sales would drop dramatically - the thought of an animal having its throat cut and hung up to die for as long as 2 mins or more is totally medieval. Ask yourself if you had a choice to die would you want your throat cut and hung upside down seeing your blood pour over your eyes as you slowly die or a bullet to the brain...... the later always wins. and yes I do eat meat but also feel the animal should be killed as humanly and here is the key word ..QUICKLY as possible.
[quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: Failure to stun an animal before slaughter is barbaric, other animals waiting their turn sense the stress and it is just not right. There was a programme on TV that was called 'Kill it, cook it, eat it' showing how various animals are humanely slaughtered in the UK. It was an interesting programme but still distressing in parts but I can only imagine the horror that occurs when animals are not stunned. Apart from Halal and Kosher, I am more concerned with what is actually the meat in take away food and have stopped eating out in curry houses and kebab shops as it is all rather dubious, especially after the horse meat scandal.[/p][/quote]again i agree - i saw that TV show and the images are still in my mind - I knew a manager who worked for the ministry in food and part of his job was to visit these slaughter houses and he always said that if everyone saw went on the meat sales would drop dramatically - the thought of an animal having its throat cut and hung up to die for as long as 2 mins or more is totally medieval. Ask yourself if you had a choice to die would you want your throat cut and hung upside down seeing your blood pour over your eyes as you slowly die or a bullet to the brain...... the later always wins. and yes I do eat meat but also feel the animal should be killed as humanly and here is the key word ..QUICKLY as possible. kirstywright
  • Score: 7

6:47pm Fri 9 May 14

jackblack007 says...

i think we are all being a bit naive here, since when did the food industry really care about the animals it was slaughtering ? its a nice thought , but in reality profit is the only thing they are interested in.
i think we are all being a bit naive here, since when did the food industry really care about the animals it was slaughtering ? its a nice thought , but in reality profit is the only thing they are interested in. jackblack007
  • Score: 4

9:05pm Fri 9 May 14

Mark Dawes says...

kirstywright wrote:
Villagecranberry wrote:
Failure to stun an animal before slaughter is barbaric, other animals waiting their turn sense the stress and it is just not right.

There was a programme on TV that was called 'Kill it, cook it, eat it' showing how various animals are humanely slaughtered in the UK. It was an interesting programme but still distressing in parts but I can only imagine the horror that occurs when animals are not stunned.

Apart from Halal and Kosher, I am more concerned with what is actually the meat in take away food and have stopped eating out in curry houses and kebab shops as it is all rather dubious, especially after the horse meat scandal.
again i agree - i saw that TV show and the images are still in my mind - I knew a manager who worked for the ministry in food and part of his job was to visit these slaughter houses and he always said that if everyone saw went on the meat sales would drop dramatically - the thought of an animal having its throat cut and hung up to die for as long as 2 mins or more is totally medieval. Ask yourself if you had a choice to die would you want your throat cut and hung upside down seeing your blood pour over your eyes as you slowly die or a bullet to the brain...... the later always wins. and yes I do eat meat but also feel the animal should be killed as humanly and here is the key word ..QUICKLY as possible.
I agree that animals should be slaughtered as humanely as possible - and that would be pre-stunned. As said, the vast majority of halal in this country is pre-stunned (and should all be) so the issue is not halal but making sure all slaughter is pre-stunned and the labelling - from an animal welfare point of view - should be concerned with informing people that the meat was pre-stunned (or not) when slaughtered rather than halal (or not).
[quote][p][bold]kirstywright[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: Failure to stun an animal before slaughter is barbaric, other animals waiting their turn sense the stress and it is just not right. There was a programme on TV that was called 'Kill it, cook it, eat it' showing how various animals are humanely slaughtered in the UK. It was an interesting programme but still distressing in parts but I can only imagine the horror that occurs when animals are not stunned. Apart from Halal and Kosher, I am more concerned with what is actually the meat in take away food and have stopped eating out in curry houses and kebab shops as it is all rather dubious, especially after the horse meat scandal.[/p][/quote]again i agree - i saw that TV show and the images are still in my mind - I knew a manager who worked for the ministry in food and part of his job was to visit these slaughter houses and he always said that if everyone saw went on the meat sales would drop dramatically - the thought of an animal having its throat cut and hung up to die for as long as 2 mins or more is totally medieval. Ask yourself if you had a choice to die would you want your throat cut and hung upside down seeing your blood pour over your eyes as you slowly die or a bullet to the brain...... the later always wins. and yes I do eat meat but also feel the animal should be killed as humanly and here is the key word ..QUICKLY as possible.[/p][/quote]I agree that animals should be slaughtered as humanely as possible - and that would be pre-stunned. As said, the vast majority of halal in this country is pre-stunned (and should all be) so the issue is not halal but making sure all slaughter is pre-stunned and the labelling - from an animal welfare point of view - should be concerned with informing people that the meat was pre-stunned (or not) when slaughtered rather than halal (or not). Mark Dawes
  • Score: 1

9:12pm Fri 9 May 14

Ferdy54 says...

Villagecranberry wrote:
Techno3 wrote:
Subway food is bland and poor value.
Every branch I have gone into has a pungent aroma inside.

I have never bought a sandwich just a drink, cannot understand the concept of them as surely people can make their own sandwich? If I am out and fancy a sarnie I buy a couple of rolls and a filling and make my own.
Exactly. Whatever one you go past, whether its halal or not, always stinks for some reason. I went past the one on Hall Lane this afternoon and smelt it before I got to it!!!

Theres no need to go to these places with Sainsburys, Greggs, Percy Ingle and cafes round there where you can get a nice sandwich.
[quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Techno3[/bold] wrote: Subway food is bland and poor value.[/p][/quote]Every branch I have gone into has a pungent aroma inside. I have never bought a sandwich just a drink, cannot understand the concept of them as surely people can make their own sandwich? If I am out and fancy a sarnie I buy a couple of rolls and a filling and make my own.[/p][/quote]Exactly. Whatever one you go past, whether its halal or not, always stinks for some reason. I went past the one on Hall Lane this afternoon and smelt it before I got to it!!! Theres no need to go to these places with Sainsburys, Greggs, Percy Ingle and cafes round there where you can get a nice sandwich. Ferdy54
  • Score: 12

10:34pm Fri 9 May 14

Villagecranberry says...

Ferdy54 wrote:
Villagecranberry wrote:
Techno3 wrote:
Subway food is bland and poor value.
Every branch I have gone into has a pungent aroma inside.

I have never bought a sandwich just a drink, cannot understand the concept of them as surely people can make their own sandwich? If I am out and fancy a sarnie I buy a couple of rolls and a filling and make my own.
Exactly. Whatever one you go past, whether its halal or not, always stinks for some reason. I went past the one on Hall Lane this afternoon and smelt it before I got to it!!!

Theres no need to go to these places with Sainsburys, Greggs, Percy Ingle and cafes round there where you can get a nice sandwich.
Yes I wonder what this acrid stench is? If one enters a Gregg's or Percy Ingales you smell fresh bread and when you slice an uncut loaf and butter the slices and add your own ingredients, you really do smell and taste a fresh cut sandwich. There seems to be something very artificial about Subway. Could be the bread, ingredients or both. They seem a bit out of date and old hat.

Up in the City these days there are some marvellous new lunchtime concept eateries, Falafal shops, oriental food, Mexican, all of which are reasonably priced and delicious.
[quote][p][bold]Ferdy54[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Techno3[/bold] wrote: Subway food is bland and poor value.[/p][/quote]Every branch I have gone into has a pungent aroma inside. I have never bought a sandwich just a drink, cannot understand the concept of them as surely people can make their own sandwich? If I am out and fancy a sarnie I buy a couple of rolls and a filling and make my own.[/p][/quote]Exactly. Whatever one you go past, whether its halal or not, always stinks for some reason. I went past the one on Hall Lane this afternoon and smelt it before I got to it!!! Theres no need to go to these places with Sainsburys, Greggs, Percy Ingle and cafes round there where you can get a nice sandwich.[/p][/quote]Yes I wonder what this acrid stench is? If one enters a Gregg's or Percy Ingales you smell fresh bread and when you slice an uncut loaf and butter the slices and add your own ingredients, you really do smell and taste a fresh cut sandwich. There seems to be something very artificial about Subway. Could be the bread, ingredients or both. They seem a bit out of date and old hat. Up in the City these days there are some marvellous new lunchtime concept eateries, Falafal shops, oriental food, Mexican, all of which are reasonably priced and delicious. Villagecranberry
  • Score: 5

10:59pm Fri 9 May 14

ViewpointE4 says...

Ferdy54 says...
Theres no need to go to these places with Sainsburys, Greggs, Percy Ingle and cafes round there where you can get a nice sandwich.



Sainsburys pre-packed sarnies are probably made up 2 or 3 days before hitting their shelf. Do they label if their sandwiches contain halal slaughtered meat?

As regards Greggs, Percy Ingles and cafes around the Mount........the sandwiches might be nice but I wouldn't be surprised if some of their products contain unlabelled halal slaughtered meat.
Ferdy54 says... Theres no need to go to these places with Sainsburys, Greggs, Percy Ingle and cafes round there where you can get a nice sandwich. Sainsburys pre-packed sarnies are probably made up 2 or 3 days before hitting their shelf. Do they label if their sandwiches contain halal slaughtered meat? As regards Greggs, Percy Ingles and cafes around the Mount........the sandwiches might be nice but I wouldn't be surprised if some of their products contain unlabelled halal slaughtered meat. ViewpointE4
  • Score: 6

11:05pm Fri 9 May 14

Villagecranberry says...

Mark Dawes wrote:
kirstywright wrote:
Villagecranberry wrote:
Failure to stun an animal before slaughter is barbaric, other animals waiting their turn sense the stress and it is just not right.

There was a programme on TV that was called 'Kill it, cook it, eat it' showing how various animals are humanely slaughtered in the UK. It was an interesting programme but still distressing in parts but I can only imagine the horror that occurs when animals are not stunned.

Apart from Halal and Kosher, I am more concerned with what is actually the meat in take away food and have stopped eating out in curry houses and kebab shops as it is all rather dubious, especially after the horse meat scandal.
again i agree - i saw that TV show and the images are still in my mind - I knew a manager who worked for the ministry in food and part of his job was to visit these slaughter houses and he always said that if everyone saw went on the meat sales would drop dramatically - the thought of an animal having its throat cut and hung up to die for as long as 2 mins or more is totally medieval. Ask yourself if you had a choice to die would you want your throat cut and hung upside down seeing your blood pour over your eyes as you slowly die or a bullet to the brain...... the later always wins. and yes I do eat meat but also feel the animal should be killed as humanly and here is the key word ..QUICKLY as possible.
I agree that animals should be slaughtered as humanely as possible - and that would be pre-stunned. As said, the vast majority of halal in this country is pre-stunned (and should all be) so the issue is not halal but making sure all slaughter is pre-stunned and the labelling - from an animal welfare point of view - should be concerned with informing people that the meat was pre-stunned (or not) when slaughtered rather than halal (or not).
With proper Halal, stunning is not permitted, must be a clean cut across the Gregory?
[quote][p][bold]Mark Dawes[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]kirstywright[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: Failure to stun an animal before slaughter is barbaric, other animals waiting their turn sense the stress and it is just not right. There was a programme on TV that was called 'Kill it, cook it, eat it' showing how various animals are humanely slaughtered in the UK. It was an interesting programme but still distressing in parts but I can only imagine the horror that occurs when animals are not stunned. Apart from Halal and Kosher, I am more concerned with what is actually the meat in take away food and have stopped eating out in curry houses and kebab shops as it is all rather dubious, especially after the horse meat scandal.[/p][/quote]again i agree - i saw that TV show and the images are still in my mind - I knew a manager who worked for the ministry in food and part of his job was to visit these slaughter houses and he always said that if everyone saw went on the meat sales would drop dramatically - the thought of an animal having its throat cut and hung up to die for as long as 2 mins or more is totally medieval. Ask yourself if you had a choice to die would you want your throat cut and hung upside down seeing your blood pour over your eyes as you slowly die or a bullet to the brain...... the later always wins. and yes I do eat meat but also feel the animal should be killed as humanly and here is the key word ..QUICKLY as possible.[/p][/quote]I agree that animals should be slaughtered as humanely as possible - and that would be pre-stunned. As said, the vast majority of halal in this country is pre-stunned (and should all be) so the issue is not halal but making sure all slaughter is pre-stunned and the labelling - from an animal welfare point of view - should be concerned with informing people that the meat was pre-stunned (or not) when slaughtered rather than halal (or not).[/p][/quote]With proper Halal, stunning is not permitted, must be a clean cut across the Gregory? Villagecranberry
  • Score: 2

1:00am Sat 10 May 14

Jenny highams park says...

http://www.liveleak.
com/view?i=545_13458
00806
Not easy to watch, only for a strong stomach please!
http://www.liveleak. com/view?i=545_13458 00806 Not easy to watch, only for a strong stomach please! Jenny highams park
  • Score: 3

2:26pm Sat 10 May 14

welshmen says...

Villagecranberry wrote:
Failure to stun an animal before slaughter is barbaric, other animals waiting their turn sense the stress and it is just not right.

There was a programme on TV that was called 'Kill it, cook it, eat it' showing how various animals are humanely slaughtered in the UK. It was an interesting programme but still distressing in parts but I can only imagine the horror that occurs when animals are not stunned.

Apart from Halal and Kosher, I am more concerned with what is actually the meat in take away food and have stopped eating out in curry houses and kebab shops as it is all rather dubious, especially after the horse meat scandal.
Good on you, this type of non stunned slaughter is as you say Barbaric, and very cruel, pandering to the seventh century Religion is wrong, we, that's the British, Stun all Animals before Slaughter, guided by our apathy for animals, Halal Slaughter, sheep are laid back in a crate and it's throats cut and left to bleed or choke to death, Cattle are clampt their throats a cut and the trakier is cut out, there left on the floor to bleed to death while thrashing about, some get up and just stand there waiting to die, and this is all to appease the Coloniser to our land, they will never be British, where as we born here will fight for our country this lot fight for their Religion First to last, they use their so called Britishness to get their own way time after time, time for them to leave our Christian based Country and find a place where they can please them selves what they do as long as it's not here....
[quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: Failure to stun an animal before slaughter is barbaric, other animals waiting their turn sense the stress and it is just not right. There was a programme on TV that was called 'Kill it, cook it, eat it' showing how various animals are humanely slaughtered in the UK. It was an interesting programme but still distressing in parts but I can only imagine the horror that occurs when animals are not stunned. Apart from Halal and Kosher, I am more concerned with what is actually the meat in take away food and have stopped eating out in curry houses and kebab shops as it is all rather dubious, especially after the horse meat scandal.[/p][/quote]Good on you, this type of non stunned slaughter is as you say Barbaric, and very cruel, pandering to the seventh century Religion is wrong, we, that's the British, Stun all Animals before Slaughter, guided by our apathy for animals, Halal Slaughter, sheep are laid back in a crate and it's throats cut and left to bleed or choke to death, Cattle are clampt their throats a cut and the trakier is cut out, there left on the floor to bleed to death while thrashing about, some get up and just stand there waiting to die, and this is all to appease the Coloniser to our land, they will never be British, where as we born here will fight for our country this lot fight for their Religion First to last, they use their so called Britishness to get their own way time after time, time for them to leave our Christian based Country and find a place where they can please them selves what they do as long as it's not here.... welshmen
  • Score: 3

2:38pm Sat 10 May 14

welshmen says...

welshmen wrote:
Villagecranberry wrote:
Failure to stun an animal before slaughter is barbaric, other animals waiting their turn sense the stress and it is just not right.

There was a programme on TV that was called 'Kill it, cook it, eat it' showing how various animals are humanely slaughtered in the UK. It was an interesting programme but still distressing in parts but I can only imagine the horror that occurs when animals are not stunned.

Apart from Halal and Kosher, I am more concerned with what is actually the meat in take away food and have stopped eating out in curry houses and kebab shops as it is all rather dubious, especially after the horse meat scandal.
Good on you, this type of non stunned slaughter is as you say Barbaric, and very cruel, pandering to the seventh century Religion is wrong, we, that's the British, Stun all Animals before Slaughter, guided by our apathy for animals, Halal Slaughter, sheep are laid back in a crate and it's throats cut and left to bleed or choke to death, Cattle are clampt their throats a cut and the trakier is cut out, there left on the floor to bleed to death while thrashing about, some get up and just stand there waiting to die, and this is all to appease the Coloniser to our land, they will never be British, where as we born here will fight for our country this lot fight for their Religion First to last, they use their so called Britishness to get their own way time after time, time for them to leave our Christian based Country and find a place where they can please them selves what they do as long as it's not here....
If the RSPCA say the Animal is stunned before Slaughter believe that, if the Halal Slaughter-men say the Animal is Stunned don't believe a word, their holy Book tells them to lie & scheme to get what they want, taqiyya kitman (lie)and makara (scheme) are used to fool the infidel, Christian's, Jews, non believers, time to wake up and get our Country back to our Christian ways not appease the Coloniser, yes Coloniser they never marry into our Culture, they are immigrants breeding as fast as they can to take our Country....Wake up People....
[quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: Failure to stun an animal before slaughter is barbaric, other animals waiting their turn sense the stress and it is just not right. There was a programme on TV that was called 'Kill it, cook it, eat it' showing how various animals are humanely slaughtered in the UK. It was an interesting programme but still distressing in parts but I can only imagine the horror that occurs when animals are not stunned. Apart from Halal and Kosher, I am more concerned with what is actually the meat in take away food and have stopped eating out in curry houses and kebab shops as it is all rather dubious, especially after the horse meat scandal.[/p][/quote]Good on you, this type of non stunned slaughter is as you say Barbaric, and very cruel, pandering to the seventh century Religion is wrong, we, that's the British, Stun all Animals before Slaughter, guided by our apathy for animals, Halal Slaughter, sheep are laid back in a crate and it's throats cut and left to bleed or choke to death, Cattle are clampt their throats a cut and the trakier is cut out, there left on the floor to bleed to death while thrashing about, some get up and just stand there waiting to die, and this is all to appease the Coloniser to our land, they will never be British, where as we born here will fight for our country this lot fight for their Religion First to last, they use their so called Britishness to get their own way time after time, time for them to leave our Christian based Country and find a place where they can please them selves what they do as long as it's not here....[/p][/quote]If the RSPCA say the Animal is stunned before Slaughter believe that, if the Halal Slaughter-men say the Animal is Stunned don't believe a word, their holy Book tells them to lie & scheme to get what they want, taqiyya kitman (lie)and makara (scheme) are used to fool the infidel, Christian's, Jews, non believers, time to wake up and get our Country back to our Christian ways not appease the Coloniser, yes Coloniser they never marry into our Culture, they are immigrants breeding as fast as they can to take our Country....Wake up People.... welshmen
  • Score: 4

3:01pm Sat 10 May 14

Mark Dawes says...

welshmen wrote:
welshmen wrote:
Villagecranberry wrote:
Failure to stun an animal before slaughter is barbaric, other animals waiting their turn sense the stress and it is just not right.

There was a programme on TV that was called 'Kill it, cook it, eat it' showing how various animals are humanely slaughtered in the UK. It was an interesting programme but still distressing in parts but I can only imagine the horror that occurs when animals are not stunned.

Apart from Halal and Kosher, I am more concerned with what is actually the meat in take away food and have stopped eating out in curry houses and kebab shops as it is all rather dubious, especially after the horse meat scandal.
Good on you, this type of non stunned slaughter is as you say Barbaric, and very cruel, pandering to the seventh century Religion is wrong, we, that's the British, Stun all Animals before Slaughter, guided by our apathy for animals, Halal Slaughter, sheep are laid back in a crate and it's throats cut and left to bleed or choke to death, Cattle are clampt their throats a cut and the trakier is cut out, there left on the floor to bleed to death while thrashing about, some get up and just stand there waiting to die, and this is all to appease the Coloniser to our land, they will never be British, where as we born here will fight for our country this lot fight for their Religion First to last, they use their so called Britishness to get their own way time after time, time for them to leave our Christian based Country and find a place where they can please them selves what they do as long as it's not here....
If the RSPCA say the Animal is stunned before Slaughter believe that, if the Halal Slaughter-men say the Animal is Stunned don't believe a word, their holy Book tells them to lie & scheme to get what they want, taqiyya kitman (lie)and makara (scheme) are used to fool the infidel, Christian's, Jews, non believers, time to wake up and get our Country back to our Christian ways not appease the Coloniser, yes Coloniser they never marry into our Culture, they are immigrants breeding as fast as they can to take our Country....Wake up People....
I think you will find that Christianity teaches tolerance and compassion not the poisonous ignorance and bigotry you espouse.
[quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: Failure to stun an animal before slaughter is barbaric, other animals waiting their turn sense the stress and it is just not right. There was a programme on TV that was called 'Kill it, cook it, eat it' showing how various animals are humanely slaughtered in the UK. It was an interesting programme but still distressing in parts but I can only imagine the horror that occurs when animals are not stunned. Apart from Halal and Kosher, I am more concerned with what is actually the meat in take away food and have stopped eating out in curry houses and kebab shops as it is all rather dubious, especially after the horse meat scandal.[/p][/quote]Good on you, this type of non stunned slaughter is as you say Barbaric, and very cruel, pandering to the seventh century Religion is wrong, we, that's the British, Stun all Animals before Slaughter, guided by our apathy for animals, Halal Slaughter, sheep are laid back in a crate and it's throats cut and left to bleed or choke to death, Cattle are clampt their throats a cut and the trakier is cut out, there left on the floor to bleed to death while thrashing about, some get up and just stand there waiting to die, and this is all to appease the Coloniser to our land, they will never be British, where as we born here will fight for our country this lot fight for their Religion First to last, they use their so called Britishness to get their own way time after time, time for them to leave our Christian based Country and find a place where they can please them selves what they do as long as it's not here....[/p][/quote]If the RSPCA say the Animal is stunned before Slaughter believe that, if the Halal Slaughter-men say the Animal is Stunned don't believe a word, their holy Book tells them to lie & scheme to get what they want, taqiyya kitman (lie)and makara (scheme) are used to fool the infidel, Christian's, Jews, non believers, time to wake up and get our Country back to our Christian ways not appease the Coloniser, yes Coloniser they never marry into our Culture, they are immigrants breeding as fast as they can to take our Country....Wake up People....[/p][/quote]I think you will find that Christianity teaches tolerance and compassion not the poisonous ignorance and bigotry you espouse. Mark Dawes
  • Score: 0

4:22pm Sat 10 May 14

myopinioncounts says...

It is claimed that some halal meat IS stunned before killing and therefore attempts to appease those against ritual slaughter. Allegedly this is true of New Zealand lamb where a type of stunning is used that does not render the animal brain dead - the animal could recover from the stunning - if not then killed by cutting it's throat. I imagine this is akin to the difference between humans being given a bash on the head that only makes you too dizzy to fight back and being totally knocked out and unaware of further injury.
It is claimed that some halal meat IS stunned before killing and therefore attempts to appease those against ritual slaughter. Allegedly this is true of New Zealand lamb where a type of stunning is used that does not render the animal brain dead - the animal could recover from the stunning - if not then killed by cutting it's throat. I imagine this is akin to the difference between humans being given a bash on the head that only makes you too dizzy to fight back and being totally knocked out and unaware of further injury. myopinioncounts
  • Score: 4

4:58pm Sat 10 May 14

Mark Dawes says...

myopinioncounts wrote:
It is claimed that some halal meat IS stunned before killing and therefore attempts to appease those against ritual slaughter. Allegedly this is true of New Zealand lamb where a type of stunning is used that does not render the animal brain dead - the animal could recover from the stunning - if not then killed by cutting it's throat. I imagine this is akin to the difference between humans being given a bash on the head that only makes you too dizzy to fight back and being totally knocked out and unaware of further injury.
The majority of halal in this country is pre-stunned and the animal is unconscious when killed – from an animal welfare point of view, the same as standard slaughter. It should also be pointed out that standard slaughter is far from perfect with many instances of animals not been rendered unconscious when killed and other abuses. There is a campaign for mandatory CCTV in all UK slaughterhouses - http://www.animalaid
.org.uk/h/n/CAMPAIGN
S/slaughter/ALL - to help stop abuses that secret filming has shown occur in all slaughter methods.
[quote][p][bold]myopinioncounts[/bold] wrote: It is claimed that some halal meat IS stunned before killing and therefore attempts to appease those against ritual slaughter. Allegedly this is true of New Zealand lamb where a type of stunning is used that does not render the animal brain dead - the animal could recover from the stunning - if not then killed by cutting it's throat. I imagine this is akin to the difference between humans being given a bash on the head that only makes you too dizzy to fight back and being totally knocked out and unaware of further injury.[/p][/quote]The majority of halal in this country is pre-stunned and the animal is unconscious when killed – from an animal welfare point of view, the same as standard slaughter. It should also be pointed out that standard slaughter is far from perfect with many instances of animals not been rendered unconscious when killed and other abuses. There is a campaign for mandatory CCTV in all UK slaughterhouses - http://www.animalaid .org.uk/h/n/CAMPAIGN S/slaughter/ALL - to help stop abuses that secret filming has shown occur in all slaughter methods. Mark Dawes
  • Score: -1

6:23pm Sat 10 May 14

hursthill says...

I remember a conversation with a man who worked in an abattoir. He told me that because of all the animal cruelty he had seen, which the public doesn't know about, he would never eat meat.

This should be made clear on ALL meat product labels, so at least the public have a choice.
I remember a conversation with a man who worked in an abattoir. He told me that because of all the animal cruelty he had seen, which the public doesn't know about, he would never eat meat. This should be made clear on ALL meat product labels, so at least the public have a choice. hursthill
  • Score: 5

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