Waltham Forest and Redbridge have Urdu as second language

London second language map published

London second language map published

First published in News
Last updated
East London and West Essex Guardian Series: Photograph of the Author by , Reporter - Epping Forest

A map of the most commonly spoken languages other than English in London’s boroughs has been published.

Information from the most recent census in 2011 was used to construct the map, which shows Redbridge and Waltham Forest as the two boroughs where Urdu is the most widely spoken second language.

Urdu is widely spoken in India and Pakistan.

English was the first language of 75.4 per cent of people in Redbridge, with Urdu the second most widely spoken among 3.8 per cent.

In Waltham Forest, 73.6 per cent of people spoke English as a first language and 3.3 per cent spoke in Urdu and the same number spoke Polish.

Other popular languages in Redbridge are Panjabi, spoken by 3.1 per cent of people, Bengali, used by 2.5 per cent, Gujarati among 2.3 per cent and Tamil, spoken by1.6 per cent.

Waltham Forest has 1.6 per cent of the population who speak Turkish or Romanian as a first language, 1.3 per cent Lithuanian and 1.2 per cent who speak Panjabi.

The data was obtained from residents of the boroughs who were three or older and the original map was posted on RandomlyLondon.com

Comments (56)

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11:24am Thu 7 Aug 14

The man who fell to Earth. says...

Barn door, horse, bolted!
Barn door, horse, bolted! The man who fell to Earth.
  • Score: 5

11:27am Thu 7 Aug 14

Villagecranberry says...

The first step would be to stop the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages.

People can translate language themselves these days by using the internet.
The first step would be to stop the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages. People can translate language themselves these days by using the internet. Villagecranberry
  • Score: 2

11:34am Thu 7 Aug 14

T. Watts says...

I think it's great! I look forward to the extinction of that awful fake cockney accent we hear everywhere!
I think it's great! I look forward to the extinction of that awful fake cockney accent we hear everywhere! T. Watts
  • Score: -8

11:35am Thu 7 Aug 14

tjm01 says...

Villagecranberry wrote:
The first step would be to stop the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages. People can translate language themselves these days by using the internet.
The first step to what?
[quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: The first step would be to stop the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages. People can translate language themselves these days by using the internet.[/p][/quote]The first step to what? tjm01
  • Score: 8

12:28pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Villagecranberry says...

tjm01 wrote:
Villagecranberry wrote:
The first step would be to stop the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages. People can translate language themselves these days by using the internet.
The first step to what?
Integration for a start.
[quote][p][bold]tjm01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: The first step would be to stop the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages. People can translate language themselves these days by using the internet.[/p][/quote]The first step to what?[/p][/quote]Integration for a start. Villagecranberry
  • Score: 8

12:48pm Thu 7 Aug 14

local 1 says...

complete integration innit!
complete integration innit! local 1
  • Score: -4

1:41pm Thu 7 Aug 14

tjm01 says...

Villagecranberry wrote:
tjm01 wrote:
Villagecranberry wrote: The first step would be to stop the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages. People can translate language themselves these days by using the internet.
The first step to what?
Integration for a start.
So you want to intergrate people by taking away the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages, so how does that work?
[quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tjm01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: The first step would be to stop the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages. People can translate language themselves these days by using the internet.[/p][/quote]The first step to what?[/p][/quote]Integration for a start.[/p][/quote]So you want to intergrate people by taking away the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages, so how does that work? tjm01
  • Score: 0

1:47pm Thu 7 Aug 14

mdj says...

'In Waltham Forest, 73.6 per cent of people spoke English as a first language...'

Does this tally with peoples' experience?
A simple test is to count how many of the first fifty people who pass you in the street are speaking English.
'In Waltham Forest, 73.6 per cent of people spoke English as a first language...' Does this tally with peoples' experience? A simple test is to count how many of the first fifty people who pass you in the street are speaking English. mdj
  • Score: 9

1:58pm Thu 7 Aug 14

howmanyusersarethere says...

What utter rubbish, if only 26.4 % of people in Waltham Forest don't have English as a first language then they must all live in my street.
What utter rubbish, if only 26.4 % of people in Waltham Forest don't have English as a first language then they must all live in my street. howmanyusersarethere
  • Score: 7

2:05pm Thu 7 Aug 14

tjm01 says...

mdj wrote:
'In Waltham Forest, 73.6 per cent of people spoke English as a first language...' Does this tally with peoples' experience? A simple test is to count how many of the first fifty people who pass you in the street are speaking English.
Not very scientific is it
[quote][p][bold]mdj[/bold] wrote: 'In Waltham Forest, 73.6 per cent of people spoke English as a first language...' Does this tally with peoples' experience? A simple test is to count how many of the first fifty people who pass you in the street are speaking English.[/p][/quote]Not very scientific is it tjm01
  • Score: 7

2:38pm Thu 7 Aug 14

leytonite says...

Top of the article: "Urdu is the most widely spoken second language"

Middle of the article: "3.3 per cent spoke in Urdu and the same number spoke Polish"

Great journalism.
Top of the article: "Urdu is the most widely spoken second language" Middle of the article: "3.3 per cent spoke in Urdu and the same number spoke Polish" Great journalism. leytonite
  • Score: 14

3:04pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Villagecranberry says...

tjm01 wrote:
Villagecranberry wrote:
tjm01 wrote:
Villagecranberry wrote: The first step would be to stop the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages. People can translate language themselves these days by using the internet.
The first step to what?
Integration for a start.
So you want to intergrate people by taking away the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages, so how does that work?
Why don't you think about it. Did you ask your teachers for all the answers when you were at school?
[quote][p][bold]tjm01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tjm01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: The first step would be to stop the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages. People can translate language themselves these days by using the internet.[/p][/quote]The first step to what?[/p][/quote]Integration for a start.[/p][/quote]So you want to intergrate people by taking away the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages, so how does that work?[/p][/quote]Why don't you think about it. Did you ask your teachers for all the answers when you were at school? Villagecranberry
  • Score: -5

3:47pm Thu 7 Aug 14

mdj says...

'Not very scientific is it..'

Homespun, I agree, but indicative.
An easy test to carry out while waiting at the bus stop or in the supermarket queue.
Obviously, the more tests, the more reliable the result.
'Not very scientific is it..' Homespun, I agree, but indicative. An easy test to carry out while waiting at the bus stop or in the supermarket queue. Obviously, the more tests, the more reliable the result. mdj
  • Score: -9

4:26pm Thu 7 Aug 14

AMAEEssex says...

If similar maps were published for parts of Spain and France I suspect there would be several areas where English was the second language. We live in a very mobile world and people move a lot, including brits going the other way. Has the poster who kept crowing about leaving the UK realised that she is now an immigrant wherever she has gone to? I'm against spongers and people who want to impose their culture on us but not anti people who want to work hard and contribute.
If similar maps were published for parts of Spain and France I suspect there would be several areas where English was the second language. We live in a very mobile world and people move a lot, including brits going the other way. Has the poster who kept crowing about leaving the UK realised that she is now an immigrant wherever she has gone to? I'm against spongers and people who want to impose their culture on us but not anti people who want to work hard and contribute. AMAEEssex
  • Score: 17

5:25pm Thu 7 Aug 14

stickmanny says...

mdj wrote:
'Not very scientific is it..'

Homespun, I agree, but indicative.
An easy test to carry out while waiting at the bus stop or in the supermarket queue.
Obviously, the more tests, the more reliable the result.
Are you on drugs?

And why should we even care about second languages?
[quote][p][bold]mdj[/bold] wrote: 'Not very scientific is it..' Homespun, I agree, but indicative. An easy test to carry out while waiting at the bus stop or in the supermarket queue. Obviously, the more tests, the more reliable the result.[/p][/quote]Are you on drugs? And why should we even care about second languages? stickmanny
  • Score: 4

8:46pm Thu 7 Aug 14

mdj says...

'And why should we even care about second languages?'

The more languages one speaks, the better; but
the point of the story is to ask how prevalent English is as a first language. A low rate raises questions about how successfully assimilation is taking place, and whether some minorities are excluded by language from the complete benefits of residence here.

If the rate gets low enough, the question arises of the exclusion of the original majority: after all, the Saxons were invited here by the indigenous rulers to bring the benefit of their specialist skills (fighting), with unintended, though possibly not unforeseeable, results.
'And why should we even care about second languages?' The more languages one speaks, the better; but the point of the story is to ask how prevalent English is as a first language. A low rate raises questions about how successfully assimilation is taking place, and whether some minorities are excluded by language from the complete benefits of residence here. If the rate gets low enough, the question arises of the exclusion of the original majority: after all, the Saxons were invited here by the indigenous rulers to bring the benefit of their specialist skills (fighting), with unintended, though possibly not unforeseeable, results. mdj
  • Score: -4

9:18pm Thu 7 Aug 14

P.C.B. says...

A second language is just that, 'second' that is to say that a person speaks, for example, Polish AND English. The effect on integration then is that a speaker will adapt their language depending on who they are speaking to. The article gives no details about non-English monolingual speakers.

Listening to people on the street is only 'indicative' of the language they are using at a particular moment in time, not of their complete linguistic competences so would not be of any use. I assume that underlying this comment is the idea that hearing people speaking in other languages makes you feel uncomfortable - there is no reason that it should.
A second language is just that, 'second' that is to say that a person speaks, for example, Polish AND English. The effect on integration then is that a speaker will adapt their language depending on who they are speaking to. The article gives no details about non-English monolingual speakers. Listening to people on the street is only 'indicative' of the language they are using at a particular moment in time, not of their complete linguistic competences so would not be of any use. I assume that underlying this comment is the idea that hearing people speaking in other languages makes you feel uncomfortable - there is no reason that it should. P.C.B.
  • Score: 17

10:08pm Thu 7 Aug 14

parkingtrouble says...

How many foreigners actually bothered to complete the census?

It is a meaningless set of statistics.

It tells me nothing.

I don't believe it serves any purpose unless someone is trying to make out that uncontrolled immigration is not having the effect it really has.

Take the Farrage test and see how many people on your train or bus are British by birth and have English as their first language.
How many foreigners actually bothered to complete the census? It is a meaningless set of statistics. It tells me nothing. I don't believe it serves any purpose unless someone is trying to make out that uncontrolled immigration is not having the effect it really has. Take the Farrage test and see how many people on your train or bus are British by birth and have English as their first language. parkingtrouble
  • Score: 6

10:36pm Thu 7 Aug 14

P.C.B. says...

parkingtrouble wrote:
How many foreigners actually bothered to complete the census?

It is a meaningless set of statistics.

It tells me nothing.

I don't believe it serves any purpose unless someone is trying to make out that uncontrolled immigration is not having the effect it really has.

Take the Farrage test and see how many people on your train or bus are British by birth and have English as their first language.
I fail to see what having English as your first language has to do with immigration.

I also fail to see the logic (let alone the point) in the 'Farage Test': Plenty of people who are 'British by birth' are bilingual speaking one language at home and one at school / work etc.. The language we speak tells us nothing about our nationality or immigration status. It could be the case that an area is made-up 100% of Canadian immigrants - they have English as a first language so how does the so called 'Farage Test' apply to them?

Whilst we're on the subject, English has no legal status as an official language of the UK (Welsh does), would you have the same reaction if people were speaking Welsh? Or is it the languages that are cited in the article, Urdu, Polish etc. indicative of prejudices towards these people?
[quote][p][bold]parkingtrouble[/bold] wrote: How many foreigners actually bothered to complete the census? It is a meaningless set of statistics. It tells me nothing. I don't believe it serves any purpose unless someone is trying to make out that uncontrolled immigration is not having the effect it really has. Take the Farrage test and see how many people on your train or bus are British by birth and have English as their first language.[/p][/quote]I fail to see what having English as your first language has to do with immigration. I also fail to see the logic (let alone the point) in the 'Farage Test': Plenty of people who are 'British by birth' are bilingual speaking one language at home and one at school / work etc.. The language we speak tells us nothing about our nationality or immigration status. It could be the case that an area is made-up 100% of Canadian immigrants - they have English as a first language so how does the so called 'Farage Test' apply to them? Whilst we're on the subject, English has no legal status as an official language of the UK (Welsh does), would you have the same reaction if people were speaking Welsh? Or is it the languages that are cited in the article, Urdu, Polish etc. indicative of prejudices towards these people? P.C.B.
  • Score: 1

10:56pm Thu 7 Aug 14

parkingtrouble says...

P.C.B. wrote:
parkingtrouble wrote:
How many foreigners actually bothered to complete the census?

It is a meaningless set of statistics.

It tells me nothing.

I don't believe it serves any purpose unless someone is trying to make out that uncontrolled immigration is not having the effect it really has.

Take the Farrage test and see how many people on your train or bus are British by birth and have English as their first language.
I fail to see what having English as your first language has to do with immigration.

I also fail to see the logic (let alone the point) in the 'Farage Test': Plenty of people who are 'British by birth' are bilingual speaking one language at home and one at school / work etc.. The language we speak tells us nothing about our nationality or immigration status. It could be the case that an area is made-up 100% of Canadian immigrants - they have English as a first language so how does the so called 'Farage Test' apply to them?

Whilst we're on the subject, English has no legal status as an official language of the UK (Welsh does), would you have the same reaction if people were speaking Welsh? Or is it the languages that are cited in the article, Urdu, Polish etc. indicative of prejudices towards these people?
Does P.C,B. stand for Politically Correct ****?

The Canadians have more sense than to move to the UK

I know one.

Australians I know a few but only one permanently based here but yearning to return.

South Africans in Leytonstone area seem to have disappeared.

Never been many Yanks (sorry U.S. citizens) wanting to do more than a quick visit.

Just stand outside Leytonstone tube station during the school run.

The place is overrun with immigrants.

Just my personal view and experience of how things have changed in the past 27 years of living in the area. But I don't suppose that counts for anything.
[quote][p][bold]P.C.B.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]parkingtrouble[/bold] wrote: How many foreigners actually bothered to complete the census? It is a meaningless set of statistics. It tells me nothing. I don't believe it serves any purpose unless someone is trying to make out that uncontrolled immigration is not having the effect it really has. Take the Farrage test and see how many people on your train or bus are British by birth and have English as their first language.[/p][/quote]I fail to see what having English as your first language has to do with immigration. I also fail to see the logic (let alone the point) in the 'Farage Test': Plenty of people who are 'British by birth' are bilingual speaking one language at home and one at school / work etc.. The language we speak tells us nothing about our nationality or immigration status. It could be the case that an area is made-up 100% of Canadian immigrants - they have English as a first language so how does the so called 'Farage Test' apply to them? Whilst we're on the subject, English has no legal status as an official language of the UK (Welsh does), would you have the same reaction if people were speaking Welsh? Or is it the languages that are cited in the article, Urdu, Polish etc. indicative of prejudices towards these people?[/p][/quote]Does P.C,B. stand for Politically Correct ****? The Canadians have more sense than to move to the UK I know one. Australians I know a few but only one permanently based here but yearning to return. South Africans in Leytonstone area seem to have disappeared. Never been many Yanks (sorry U.S. citizens) wanting to do more than a quick visit. Just stand outside Leytonstone tube station during the school run. The place is overrun with immigrants. Just my personal view and experience of how things have changed in the past 27 years of living in the area. But I don't suppose that counts for anything. parkingtrouble
  • Score: 1

11:28pm Thu 7 Aug 14

P.C.B. says...

parkingtrouble wrote:
P.C.B. wrote:
parkingtrouble wrote:
How many foreigners actually bothered to complete the census?

It is a meaningless set of statistics.

It tells me nothing.

I don't believe it serves any purpose unless someone is trying to make out that uncontrolled immigration is not having the effect it really has.

Take the Farrage test and see how many people on your train or bus are British by birth and have English as their first language.
I fail to see what having English as your first language has to do with immigration.

I also fail to see the logic (let alone the point) in the 'Farage Test': Plenty of people who are 'British by birth' are bilingual speaking one language at home and one at school / work etc.. The language we speak tells us nothing about our nationality or immigration status. It could be the case that an area is made-up 100% of Canadian immigrants - they have English as a first language so how does the so called 'Farage Test' apply to them?

Whilst we're on the subject, English has no legal status as an official language of the UK (Welsh does), would you have the same reaction if people were speaking Welsh? Or is it the languages that are cited in the article, Urdu, Polish etc. indicative of prejudices towards these people?
Does P.C,B. stand for Politically Correct ****?

The Canadians have more sense than to move to the UK

I know one.

Australians I know a few but only one permanently based here but yearning to return.

South Africans in Leytonstone area seem to have disappeared.

Never been many Yanks (sorry U.S. citizens) wanting to do more than a quick visit.

Just stand outside Leytonstone tube station during the school run.

The place is overrun with immigrants.

Just my personal view and experience of how things have changed in the past 27 years of living in the area. But I don't suppose that counts for anything.
Well it counts for something in that it's your opinion and that your opinion has a direct influence on cultural integration.

What worries me is that articles like this are used to support an anti-immigration standpoint with very spurious logic.

Places change, society evolves but any claim that 'English is in danger' is just a lie. When you stand outside the Tube and see Leytonstone 'overrun' with immigrants, those children are going to sit on a tube and see adverts 100% in English, announcements in English, they'll arrive at school to be educated in English, where all official communication is in English - the 'threat' is imaginary and part of a wider anti-immigration discourse.
[quote][p][bold]parkingtrouble[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P.C.B.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]parkingtrouble[/bold] wrote: How many foreigners actually bothered to complete the census? It is a meaningless set of statistics. It tells me nothing. I don't believe it serves any purpose unless someone is trying to make out that uncontrolled immigration is not having the effect it really has. Take the Farrage test and see how many people on your train or bus are British by birth and have English as their first language.[/p][/quote]I fail to see what having English as your first language has to do with immigration. I also fail to see the logic (let alone the point) in the 'Farage Test': Plenty of people who are 'British by birth' are bilingual speaking one language at home and one at school / work etc.. The language we speak tells us nothing about our nationality or immigration status. It could be the case that an area is made-up 100% of Canadian immigrants - they have English as a first language so how does the so called 'Farage Test' apply to them? Whilst we're on the subject, English has no legal status as an official language of the UK (Welsh does), would you have the same reaction if people were speaking Welsh? Or is it the languages that are cited in the article, Urdu, Polish etc. indicative of prejudices towards these people?[/p][/quote]Does P.C,B. stand for Politically Correct ****? The Canadians have more sense than to move to the UK I know one. Australians I know a few but only one permanently based here but yearning to return. South Africans in Leytonstone area seem to have disappeared. Never been many Yanks (sorry U.S. citizens) wanting to do more than a quick visit. Just stand outside Leytonstone tube station during the school run. The place is overrun with immigrants. Just my personal view and experience of how things have changed in the past 27 years of living in the area. But I don't suppose that counts for anything.[/p][/quote]Well it counts for something in that it's your opinion and that your opinion has a direct influence on cultural integration. What worries me is that articles like this are used to support an anti-immigration standpoint with very spurious logic. Places change, society evolves but any claim that 'English is in danger' is just a lie. When you stand outside the Tube and see Leytonstone 'overrun' with immigrants, those children are going to sit on a tube and see adverts 100% in English, announcements in English, they'll arrive at school to be educated in English, where all official communication is in English - the 'threat' is imaginary and part of a wider anti-immigration discourse. P.C.B.
  • Score: 6

10:22am Fri 8 Aug 14

Loud Fat American says...

Perhaps you should consider a name change...Perhaps Subpar Britton would be more appropriate...hard to believe that at some juncture you wimps ruled the world...the sun never sets and all that tripe. Two small arse whoopings from us, your cousins across the pond and you've turned into Shiite. You are being conquered from the inside. No mention or your Muslim invasion in this...at the rate you are going....I hope you like sharia law and your women In burkas...with the teeth I've seen on some of your folks..may improve looks. I'm certain I'll be viciously attacked for this posting...however I'm not worried...if you aren't willing to fight for your British identity, how strong can be you vitriol for me
Perhaps you should consider a name change...Perhaps Subpar Britton would be more appropriate...hard to believe that at some juncture you wimps ruled the world...the sun never sets and all that tripe. Two small arse whoopings from us, your cousins across the pond and you've turned into Shiite. You are being conquered from the inside. No mention or your Muslim invasion in this...at the rate you are going....I hope you like sharia law and your women In burkas...with the teeth I've seen on some of your folks..may improve looks. I'm certain I'll be viciously attacked for this posting...however I'm not worried...if you aren't willing to fight for your British identity, how strong can be you vitriol for me Loud Fat American
  • Score: -8

11:47am Fri 8 Aug 14

Villagecranberry says...

To encourage unity and integration, as we are in the UK lets speak English first and any other language as a personal choice.
To encourage unity and integration, as we are in the UK lets speak English first and any other language as a personal choice. Villagecranberry
  • Score: 2

2:16pm Fri 8 Aug 14

escapefrome17 says...

American gobshiite- presumably you are fluent in Spanish?
American gobshiite- presumably you are fluent in Spanish? escapefrome17
  • Score: 6

2:46pm Fri 8 Aug 14

myopinioncounts says...

P.C.B. wrote:
A second language is just that, 'second' that is to say that a person speaks, for example, Polish AND English. The effect on integration then is that a speaker will adapt their language depending on who they are speaking to. The article gives no details about non-English monolingual speakers.

Listening to people on the street is only 'indicative' of the language they are using at a particular moment in time, not of their complete linguistic competences so would not be of any use. I assume that underlying this comment is the idea that hearing people speaking in other languages makes you feel uncomfortable - there is no reason that it should.
When I walk down Walthamstow High St I find the number of people speaking English to a companion can be counted on one hand. It is no comfort to me that the rest ARE able to speak it if they choose. Whatever the statistics claim I find I am becoming a minority in the Borough that I was born in over 60 years ago.
Children do learn a new language quickly but they require good role models. If the majority of a class is made up of pupils in the early stages of learning English, and their parents do not speak English to them at home the standards will be affected.
[quote][p][bold]P.C.B.[/bold] wrote: A second language is just that, 'second' that is to say that a person speaks, for example, Polish AND English. The effect on integration then is that a speaker will adapt their language depending on who they are speaking to. The article gives no details about non-English monolingual speakers. Listening to people on the street is only 'indicative' of the language they are using at a particular moment in time, not of their complete linguistic competences so would not be of any use. I assume that underlying this comment is the idea that hearing people speaking in other languages makes you feel uncomfortable - there is no reason that it should.[/p][/quote]When I walk down Walthamstow High St I find the number of people speaking English to a companion can be counted on one hand. It is no comfort to me that the rest ARE able to speak it if they choose. Whatever the statistics claim I find I am becoming a minority in the Borough that I was born in over 60 years ago. Children do learn a new language quickly but they require good role models. If the majority of a class is made up of pupils in the early stages of learning English, and their parents do not speak English to them at home the standards will be affected. myopinioncounts
  • Score: 8

9:42pm Fri 8 Aug 14

parkingtrouble says...

P.C.B. wrote:
parkingtrouble wrote:
P.C.B. wrote:
parkingtrouble wrote:
How many foreigners actually bothered to complete the census?

It is a meaningless set of statistics.

It tells me nothing.

I don't believe it serves any purpose unless someone is trying to make out that uncontrolled immigration is not having the effect it really has.

Take the Farrage test and see how many people on your train or bus are British by birth and have English as their first language.
I fail to see what having English as your first language has to do with immigration.

I also fail to see the logic (let alone the point) in the 'Farage Test': Plenty of people who are 'British by birth' are bilingual speaking one language at home and one at school / work etc.. The language we speak tells us nothing about our nationality or immigration status. It could be the case that an area is made-up 100% of Canadian immigrants - they have English as a first language so how does the so called 'Farage Test' apply to them?

Whilst we're on the subject, English has no legal status as an official language of the UK (Welsh does), would you have the same reaction if people were speaking Welsh? Or is it the languages that are cited in the article, Urdu, Polish etc. indicative of prejudices towards these people?
Does P.C,B. stand for Politically Correct ****?

The Canadians have more sense than to move to the UK

I know one.

Australians I know a few but only one permanently based here but yearning to return.

South Africans in Leytonstone area seem to have disappeared.

Never been many Yanks (sorry U.S. citizens) wanting to do more than a quick visit.

Just stand outside Leytonstone tube station during the school run.

The place is overrun with immigrants.

Just my personal view and experience of how things have changed in the past 27 years of living in the area. But I don't suppose that counts for anything.
Well it counts for something in that it's your opinion and that your opinion has a direct influence on cultural integration.

What worries me is that articles like this are used to support an anti-immigration standpoint with very spurious logic.

Places change, society evolves but any claim that 'English is in danger' is just a lie. When you stand outside the Tube and see Leytonstone 'overrun' with immigrants, those children are going to sit on a tube and see adverts 100% in English, announcements in English, they'll arrive at school to be educated in English, where all official communication is in English - the 'threat' is imaginary and part of a wider anti-immigration discourse.
I am old enough to have seen and accepted plenty of change but it has reached a point where it has changed too much for my liking.
Fine for the liberal lefties who put pressure on people to embrace change or be accused of being racist.

Less than half the population of London is White British.
37% of the London population were born outside of the UK.

Uncontrolled immigration is clearly putting an unacceptable strain on the NHS, Schools and Housing.

Only a matter of time before the UK store is stripped bare and the reasons they queue in Calais to get here have disappeared, never to return.

Enjoy the enriched culture whilst it lasts.
[quote][p][bold]P.C.B.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]parkingtrouble[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P.C.B.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]parkingtrouble[/bold] wrote: How many foreigners actually bothered to complete the census? It is a meaningless set of statistics. It tells me nothing. I don't believe it serves any purpose unless someone is trying to make out that uncontrolled immigration is not having the effect it really has. Take the Farrage test and see how many people on your train or bus are British by birth and have English as their first language.[/p][/quote]I fail to see what having English as your first language has to do with immigration. I also fail to see the logic (let alone the point) in the 'Farage Test': Plenty of people who are 'British by birth' are bilingual speaking one language at home and one at school / work etc.. The language we speak tells us nothing about our nationality or immigration status. It could be the case that an area is made-up 100% of Canadian immigrants - they have English as a first language so how does the so called 'Farage Test' apply to them? Whilst we're on the subject, English has no legal status as an official language of the UK (Welsh does), would you have the same reaction if people were speaking Welsh? Or is it the languages that are cited in the article, Urdu, Polish etc. indicative of prejudices towards these people?[/p][/quote]Does P.C,B. stand for Politically Correct ****? The Canadians have more sense than to move to the UK I know one. Australians I know a few but only one permanently based here but yearning to return. South Africans in Leytonstone area seem to have disappeared. Never been many Yanks (sorry U.S. citizens) wanting to do more than a quick visit. Just stand outside Leytonstone tube station during the school run. The place is overrun with immigrants. Just my personal view and experience of how things have changed in the past 27 years of living in the area. But I don't suppose that counts for anything.[/p][/quote]Well it counts for something in that it's your opinion and that your opinion has a direct influence on cultural integration. What worries me is that articles like this are used to support an anti-immigration standpoint with very spurious logic. Places change, society evolves but any claim that 'English is in danger' is just a lie. When you stand outside the Tube and see Leytonstone 'overrun' with immigrants, those children are going to sit on a tube and see adverts 100% in English, announcements in English, they'll arrive at school to be educated in English, where all official communication is in English - the 'threat' is imaginary and part of a wider anti-immigration discourse.[/p][/quote]I am old enough to have seen and accepted plenty of change but it has reached a point where it has changed too much for my liking. Fine for the liberal lefties who put pressure on people to embrace change or be accused of being racist. Less than half the population of London is White British. 37% of the London population were born outside of the UK. Uncontrolled immigration is clearly putting an unacceptable strain on the NHS, Schools and Housing. Only a matter of time before the UK store is stripped bare and the reasons they queue in Calais to get here have disappeared, never to return. Enjoy the enriched culture whilst it lasts. parkingtrouble
  • Score: 8

10:14pm Fri 8 Aug 14

Villagecranberry says...

parkingtrouble wrote:
P.C.B. wrote:
parkingtrouble wrote:
P.C.B. wrote:
parkingtrouble wrote:
How many foreigners actually bothered to complete the census?

It is a meaningless set of statistics.

It tells me nothing.

I don't believe it serves any purpose unless someone is trying to make out that uncontrolled immigration is not having the effect it really has.

Take the Farrage test and see how many people on your train or bus are British by birth and have English as their first language.
I fail to see what having English as your first language has to do with immigration.

I also fail to see the logic (let alone the point) in the 'Farage Test': Plenty of people who are 'British by birth' are bilingual speaking one language at home and one at school / work etc.. The language we speak tells us nothing about our nationality or immigration status. It could be the case that an area is made-up 100% of Canadian immigrants - they have English as a first language so how does the so called 'Farage Test' apply to them?

Whilst we're on the subject, English has no legal status as an official language of the UK (Welsh does), would you have the same reaction if people were speaking Welsh? Or is it the languages that are cited in the article, Urdu, Polish etc. indicative of prejudices towards these people?
Does P.C,B. stand for Politically Correct ****?

The Canadians have more sense than to move to the UK

I know one.

Australians I know a few but only one permanently based here but yearning to return.

South Africans in Leytonstone area seem to have disappeared.

Never been many Yanks (sorry U.S. citizens) wanting to do more than a quick visit.

Just stand outside Leytonstone tube station during the school run.

The place is overrun with immigrants.

Just my personal view and experience of how things have changed in the past 27 years of living in the area. But I don't suppose that counts for anything.
Well it counts for something in that it's your opinion and that your opinion has a direct influence on cultural integration.

What worries me is that articles like this are used to support an anti-immigration standpoint with very spurious logic.

Places change, society evolves but any claim that 'English is in danger' is just a lie. When you stand outside the Tube and see Leytonstone 'overrun' with immigrants, those children are going to sit on a tube and see adverts 100% in English, announcements in English, they'll arrive at school to be educated in English, where all official communication is in English - the 'threat' is imaginary and part of a wider anti-immigration discourse.
I am old enough to have seen and accepted plenty of change but it has reached a point where it has changed too much for my liking.
Fine for the liberal lefties who put pressure on people to embrace change or be accused of being racist.

Less than half the population of London is White British.
37% of the London population were born outside of the UK.

Uncontrolled immigration is clearly putting an unacceptable strain on the NHS, Schools and Housing.

Only a matter of time before the UK store is stripped bare and the reasons they queue in Calais to get here have disappeared, never to return.

Enjoy the enriched culture whilst it lasts.
You are trying to convey the reality to people who walk down a blind alley every day. Look at this Jihad War flags in Poplar High St today.

The tens of thousands who died in the First World War and Second World War must be turning in their graves.

Our biggest enemies are within, mainly liberals and especially champagne socialists.
[quote][p][bold]parkingtrouble[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P.C.B.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]parkingtrouble[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P.C.B.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]parkingtrouble[/bold] wrote: How many foreigners actually bothered to complete the census? It is a meaningless set of statistics. It tells me nothing. I don't believe it serves any purpose unless someone is trying to make out that uncontrolled immigration is not having the effect it really has. Take the Farrage test and see how many people on your train or bus are British by birth and have English as their first language.[/p][/quote]I fail to see what having English as your first language has to do with immigration. I also fail to see the logic (let alone the point) in the 'Farage Test': Plenty of people who are 'British by birth' are bilingual speaking one language at home and one at school / work etc.. The language we speak tells us nothing about our nationality or immigration status. It could be the case that an area is made-up 100% of Canadian immigrants - they have English as a first language so how does the so called 'Farage Test' apply to them? Whilst we're on the subject, English has no legal status as an official language of the UK (Welsh does), would you have the same reaction if people were speaking Welsh? Or is it the languages that are cited in the article, Urdu, Polish etc. indicative of prejudices towards these people?[/p][/quote]Does P.C,B. stand for Politically Correct ****? The Canadians have more sense than to move to the UK I know one. Australians I know a few but only one permanently based here but yearning to return. South Africans in Leytonstone area seem to have disappeared. Never been many Yanks (sorry U.S. citizens) wanting to do more than a quick visit. Just stand outside Leytonstone tube station during the school run. The place is overrun with immigrants. Just my personal view and experience of how things have changed in the past 27 years of living in the area. But I don't suppose that counts for anything.[/p][/quote]Well it counts for something in that it's your opinion and that your opinion has a direct influence on cultural integration. What worries me is that articles like this are used to support an anti-immigration standpoint with very spurious logic. Places change, society evolves but any claim that 'English is in danger' is just a lie. When you stand outside the Tube and see Leytonstone 'overrun' with immigrants, those children are going to sit on a tube and see adverts 100% in English, announcements in English, they'll arrive at school to be educated in English, where all official communication is in English - the 'threat' is imaginary and part of a wider anti-immigration discourse.[/p][/quote]I am old enough to have seen and accepted plenty of change but it has reached a point where it has changed too much for my liking. Fine for the liberal lefties who put pressure on people to embrace change or be accused of being racist. Less than half the population of London is White British. 37% of the London population were born outside of the UK. Uncontrolled immigration is clearly putting an unacceptable strain on the NHS, Schools and Housing. Only a matter of time before the UK store is stripped bare and the reasons they queue in Calais to get here have disappeared, never to return. Enjoy the enriched culture whilst it lasts.[/p][/quote]You are trying to convey the reality to people who walk down a blind alley every day. Look at this Jihad War flags in Poplar High St today. The tens of thousands who died in the First World War and Second World War must be turning in their graves. Our biggest enemies are within, mainly liberals and especially champagne socialists. Villagecranberry
  • Score: 10

6:50am Sat 9 Aug 14

tjm01 says...

Villagecranberry wrote:
tjm01 wrote:
Villagecranberry wrote:
tjm01 wrote:
Villagecranberry wrote: The first step would be to stop the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages. People can translate language themselves these days by using the internet.
The first step to what?
Integration for a start.
So you want to intergrate people by taking away the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages, so how does that work?
Why don't you think about it. Did you ask your teachers for all the answers when you were at school?
I have thought about it so, please explain how stopping the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages is the first step to intergation
[quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tjm01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tjm01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: The first step would be to stop the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages. People can translate language themselves these days by using the internet.[/p][/quote]The first step to what?[/p][/quote]Integration for a start.[/p][/quote]So you want to intergrate people by taking away the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages, so how does that work?[/p][/quote]Why don't you think about it. Did you ask your teachers for all the answers when you were at school?[/p][/quote]I have thought about it so, please explain how stopping the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages is the first step to intergation tjm01
  • Score: -3

9:02am Sat 9 Aug 14

parkingtrouble says...

tjm01 wrote:
Villagecranberry wrote:
tjm01 wrote: Villagecranberry wrote: tjm01 wrote: Villagecranberry wrote: The first step would be to stop the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages. People can translate language themselves these days by using the internet.The first step to what?Integration for a start.So you want to intergrate people by taking away the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages, so how does that work?Why don't you think about it. Did you ask your teachers for all the answers when you were at school?I have thought about it so, please explain how stopping the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages is the first step to intergationI have thought about it so, please explain how stopping the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages is the first step to intergation

Because it makes it too easy for a foreigner not to learn English. This nanny state puts everything on a plate whether you were born her or not.

Translation and interpreter services cost taxpayers a fortune

Other EEA countries don't provide this level of services. Why do we?
[quote][p][bold]tjm01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tjm01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tjm01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: The first step would be to stop the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages. People can translate language themselves these days by using the internet.[/p][/quote]The first step to what?[/p][/quote]Integration for a start.[/p][/quote]So you want to intergrate people by taking away the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages, so how does that work?[/p][/quote]Why don't you think about it. Did you ask your teachers for all the answers when you were at school?[/p][/quote]I have thought about it so, please explain how stopping the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages is the first step to intergation[/p][/quote][quote]I have thought about it so, please explain how stopping the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages is the first step to intergation[quote] Because it makes it too easy for a foreigner not to learn English. This nanny state puts everything on a plate whether you were born her or not. Translation and interpreter services cost taxpayers a fortune Other EEA countries don't provide this level of services. Why do we? parkingtrouble
  • Score: 4

9:04am Sat 9 Aug 14

stickmanny says...

Haters If you don't like what's happening leave the rest of us to get on with it. Leigh on Sea is quite nice.
Haters If you don't like what's happening leave the rest of us to get on with it. Leigh on Sea is quite nice. stickmanny
  • Score: -8

9:30am Sat 9 Aug 14

parkingtrouble says...

Haters?

Typical. Trying to label concerned citizens who are stating some facts that you cannot counter with a reasoned argument or your own facts.

I have an issue with uncontrolled immigration and your solution is that I should move.
Haters? Typical. Trying to label concerned citizens who are stating some facts that you cannot counter with a reasoned argument or your own facts. I have an issue with uncontrolled immigration and your solution is that I should move. parkingtrouble
  • Score: 5

9:48am Sat 9 Aug 14

stickmanny says...

But the concerns are misplaced.

Get rid of your prejudice, or go somewhere you'll be happier.
But the concerns are misplaced. Get rid of your prejudice, or go somewhere you'll be happier. stickmanny
  • Score: -8

2:36pm Sat 9 Aug 14

parkingtrouble says...

What prejudice?

So concerns about this country's ability to cope with open door immigration policy is unfounded?

Remarkable!

Keep your head buried in the sand whilst others walk over you.
What prejudice? So concerns about this country's ability to cope with open door immigration policy is unfounded? Remarkable! Keep your head buried in the sand whilst others walk over you. parkingtrouble
  • Score: 2

9:44pm Sat 9 Aug 14

Villagecranberry says...

parkingtrouble wrote:
What prejudice?

So concerns about this country's ability to cope with open door immigration policy is unfounded?

Remarkable!

Keep your head buried in the sand whilst others walk over you.
People like Stickmanny are the problem, they vote in Labour no matter what. They want to open the country to the world, come what may.
[quote][p][bold]parkingtrouble[/bold] wrote: What prejudice? So concerns about this country's ability to cope with open door immigration policy is unfounded? Remarkable! Keep your head buried in the sand whilst others walk over you.[/p][/quote]People like Stickmanny are the problem, they vote in Labour no matter what. They want to open the country to the world, come what may. Villagecranberry
  • Score: -5

9:47pm Sat 9 Aug 14

Villagecranberry says...

parkingtrouble wrote:
tjm01 wrote:
Villagecranberry wrote:
tjm01 wrote: Villagecranberry wrote: tjm01 wrote: Villagecranberry wrote: The first step would be to stop the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages. People can translate language themselves these days by using the internet.The first step to what?Integration for a start.So you want to intergrate people by taking away the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages, so how does that work?Why don't you think about it. Did you ask your teachers for all the answers when you were at school?I have thought about it so, please explain how stopping the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages is the first step to intergationI have thought about it so, please explain how stopping the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages is the first step to intergation

Because it makes it too easy for a foreigner not to learn English. This nanny state puts everything on a plate whether you were born her or not.

Translation and interpreter services cost taxpayers a fortune

Other EEA countries don't provide this level of services. Why do we?Don't educate him.

A wise man can learn from a fool but a fool can never learn from a wise man.

Let him dwell in ignorance.
[quote][p][bold]parkingtrouble[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tjm01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tjm01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tjm01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: The first step would be to stop the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages. People can translate language themselves these days by using the internet.[/p][/quote]The first step to what?[/p][/quote]Integration for a start.[/p][/quote]So you want to intergrate people by taking away the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages, so how does that work?[/p][/quote]Why don't you think about it. Did you ask your teachers for all the answers when you were at school?[/p][/quote]I have thought about it so, please explain how stopping the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages is the first step to intergation[/p][/quote][quote]I have thought about it so, please explain how stopping the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages is the first step to intergation[quote] Because it makes it too easy for a foreigner not to learn English. This nanny state puts everything on a plate whether you were born her or not. Translation and interpreter services cost taxpayers a fortune Other EEA countries don't provide this level of services. Why do we?[/p][/quote]Don't educate him. A wise man can learn from a fool but a fool can never learn from a wise man. Let him dwell in ignorance. Villagecranberry
  • Score: -7

10:16am Sun 10 Aug 14

myopinioncounts says...

Villagecranberry wrote:
parkingtrouble wrote:
tjm01 wrote:
Villagecranberry wrote:
tjm01 wrote: Villagecranberry wrote: tjm01 wrote: Villagecranberry wrote: The first step would be to stop the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages. People can translate language themselves these days by using the internet.The first step to what?Integration for a start.So you want to intergrate people by taking away the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages, so how does that work?Why don't you think about it. Did you ask your teachers for all the answers when you were at school?I have thought about it so, please explain how stopping the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages is the first step to intergationI have thought about it so, please explain how stopping the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages is the first step to intergation

Because it makes it too easy for a foreigner not to learn English. This nanny state puts everything on a plate whether you were born her or not.

Translation and interpreter services cost taxpayers a fortune

Other EEA countries don't provide this level of services. Why do we?Don't educate him.

A wise man can learn from a fool but a fool can never learn from a wise man.

Let him dwell in ignorance.Our school would arrange - and pay for- translators for parents on Open Evenings only to have the parents either not turn up or come with someone who could translate for them anyway! A total waste of money!
[quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]parkingtrouble[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tjm01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tjm01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tjm01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: The first step would be to stop the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages. People can translate language themselves these days by using the internet.[/p][/quote]The first step to what?[/p][/quote]Integration for a start.[/p][/quote]So you want to intergrate people by taking away the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages, so how does that work?[/p][/quote]Why don't you think about it. Did you ask your teachers for all the answers when you were at school?[/p][/quote]I have thought about it so, please explain how stopping the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages is the first step to intergation[/p][/quote][quote]I have thought about it so, please explain how stopping the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages is the first step to intergation[quote] Because it makes it too easy for a foreigner not to learn English. This nanny state puts everything on a plate whether you were born her or not. Translation and interpreter services cost taxpayers a fortune Other EEA countries don't provide this level of services. Why do we?[/p][/quote]Don't educate him. A wise man can learn from a fool but a fool can never learn from a wise man. Let him dwell in ignorance.[/p][/quote]Our school would arrange - and pay for- translators for parents on Open Evenings only to have the parents either not turn up or come with someone who could translate for them anyway! A total waste of money! myopinioncounts
  • Score: -5

7:31am Mon 11 Aug 14

tjm01 says...

I am also concerned with uncontrolled immigration, and the issues regarding the cost of translators is also valid, but how on earth will stopping the publication of public information in other languages be the first step to intergration, weather we like it or not some people will speak the language they consider to be their native tongue, that does not mean they can not speak english, it simply means they communicate better(with each other) using their own language

So Villagecranberry A.K.A Cornbeefur I ask again how does stopping the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages help intergration, and please can I have answer to the question and not some silly remark about asking teachers questions
I am also concerned with uncontrolled immigration, and the issues regarding the cost of translators is also valid, but how on earth will stopping the publication of public information in other languages be the first step to intergration, weather we like it or not some people will speak the language they consider to be their native tongue, that does not mean they can not speak english, it simply means they communicate better(with each other) using their own language So Villagecranberry A.K.A Cornbeefur I ask again how does stopping the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages help intergration, and please can I have answer to the question and not some silly remark about asking teachers questions tjm01
  • Score: 7

7:56am Mon 11 Aug 14

parkingtrouble says...

@TJM01 - It'll make them try a little harder to learn English, rather than spoonfeed them. Let them pay for translation. Or simple enough to use online services like Google Translate.

Different for asylum seekers perhaps but for those coming through the open door, or having secured a visa shouldn't need it handed on a plate.
@TJM01 - It'll make them try a little harder to learn English, rather than spoonfeed them. Let them pay for translation. Or simple enough to use online services like Google Translate. Different for asylum seekers perhaps but for those coming through the open door, or having secured a visa shouldn't need it handed on a plate. parkingtrouble
  • Score: -1

11:28am Mon 11 Aug 14

tjm01 says...

I respect and understand your views but have to disagree, if we stop printing public information leaflets in foreign languages it will have an adverse effect on intergration, it will remove the communication link between those who are maybe in the process of learning english, especially those who can communicate using spoken english but find reading/writing english more difficult , this in turn may result in people not being able to adhere to what we english term "our ways of life" for which they will then attract criticism from the growing numbers of E.D.F. type individuals, if we want those who for whatever reason wish to settle in the U.K to intergrate,alienatin
g them is not the right approach,giving them the opportuinty to learn to read, write and understand our language is of paramount importance and as with all learning it will not happen overnight
I respect and understand your views but have to disagree, if we stop printing public information leaflets in foreign languages it will have an adverse effect on intergration, it will remove the communication link between those who are maybe in the process of learning english, especially those who can communicate using spoken english but find reading/writing english more difficult , this in turn may result in people not being able to adhere to what we english term "our ways of life" for which they will then attract criticism from the growing numbers of E.D.F. type individuals, if we want those who for whatever reason wish to settle in the U.K to intergrate,alienatin g them is not the right approach,giving them the opportuinty to learn to read, write and understand our language is of paramount importance and as with all learning it will not happen overnight tjm01
  • Score: 2

6:37pm Mon 11 Aug 14

Villagecranberry says...

tjm01 wrote:
I respect and understand your views but have to disagree, if we stop printing public information leaflets in foreign languages it will have an adverse effect on intergration, it will remove the communication link between those who are maybe in the process of learning english, especially those who can communicate using spoken english but find reading/writing english more difficult , this in turn may result in people not being able to adhere to what we english term "our ways of life" for which they will then attract criticism from the growing numbers of E.D.F. type individuals, if we want those who for whatever reason wish to settle in the U.K to intergrate,alienatin

g them is not the right approach,giving them the opportuinty to learn to read, write and understand our language is of paramount importance and as with all learning it will not happen overnight
You have confirmed how daft you are.
[quote][p][bold]tjm01[/bold] wrote: I respect and understand your views but have to disagree, if we stop printing public information leaflets in foreign languages it will have an adverse effect on intergration, it will remove the communication link between those who are maybe in the process of learning english, especially those who can communicate using spoken english but find reading/writing english more difficult , this in turn may result in people not being able to adhere to what we english term "our ways of life" for which they will then attract criticism from the growing numbers of E.D.F. type individuals, if we want those who for whatever reason wish to settle in the U.K to intergrate,alienatin g them is not the right approach,giving them the opportuinty to learn to read, write and understand our language is of paramount importance and as with all learning it will not happen overnight[/p][/quote]You have confirmed how daft you are. Villagecranberry
  • Score: -2

9:16pm Mon 11 Aug 14

Ferdy54 says...

There's not a lot we can do about people coming in from the EU, but from outside there should be strict granting of visas for people like Australia. And make them expensive so they can't afford them :-)

Just turning up at places like the A&E at Whipps for free treatment shouldn't be allowed. Also teachers at various, mainly junior, schools in the borough are wasting their time trying to teach foreign kids English, because as soon as their parents pick them up they only talk to them in their own language. I know that some parents don't even want to learn to speak English!!! :-/
There's not a lot we can do about people coming in from the EU, but from outside there should be strict granting of visas for people like Australia. And make them expensive so they can't afford them :-) Just turning up at places like the A&E at Whipps for free treatment shouldn't be allowed. Also teachers at various, mainly junior, schools in the borough are wasting their time trying to teach foreign kids English, because as soon as their parents pick them up they only talk to them in their own language. I know that some parents don't even want to learn to speak English!!! :-/ Ferdy54
  • Score: 4

4:51am Tue 12 Aug 14

P.C.B. says...

Fact - the majority of the people in the world are (at least) bi-lingual.

Fact - a child's ability to speak 'proper English' will be in no way hampered by their linguistic input at home as long as English is the vehicular language of their school.

Fact - if you feel uncomfortable hearing other languages you are xenophobic.

I (still) wonder if you would feel as uncomfortable if you heard Welsh or Ulster Scots spoken in the street or even American English?

Seeing as we're harking back to the 'good old days' maybe we should all speak like this: https://www.youtube.
com/watch?v=mBRP-o6Q
85s after-all, what's more British than the Queen, eh?

The headline for, focus of and response to this article should be 'at last Britons are catching up with the rest of the world in terms of language learning'.

The very fact that the comments have turned into a debate about immigration is a) worrying and b) ill-informed (although the article leads itself to such scaremongering). There is no indication of these speakers' nationalities and to assume, just because they speak another language alongside English, that they are not British, is a dangerous thing to do. If the logic is that Britons cannot have a second language then that is ridiculous - why do we teach children languages at school (not a labour policy I feel the need to point out) if we don't want to encourage linguistic abilities...?
Fact - the majority of the people in the world are (at least) bi-lingual. Fact - a child's ability to speak 'proper English' will be in no way hampered by their linguistic input at home as long as English is the vehicular language of their school. Fact - if you feel uncomfortable hearing other languages you are xenophobic. I (still) wonder if you would feel as uncomfortable if you heard Welsh or Ulster Scots spoken in the street or even American English? Seeing as we're harking back to the 'good old days' maybe we should all speak like this: https://www.youtube. com/watch?v=mBRP-o6Q 85s after-all, what's more British than the Queen, eh? The headline for, focus of and response to this article should be 'at last Britons are catching up with the rest of the world in terms of language learning'. The very fact that the comments have turned into a debate about immigration is a) worrying and b) ill-informed (although the article leads itself to such scaremongering). There is no indication of these speakers' nationalities and to assume, just because they speak another language alongside English, that they are not British, is a dangerous thing to do. If the logic is that Britons cannot have a second language then that is ridiculous - why do we teach children languages at school (not a labour policy I feel the need to point out) if we don't want to encourage linguistic abilities...? P.C.B.
  • Score: 1

4:53am Tue 12 Aug 14

P.C.B. says...

Villagecranberry wrote:
To encourage unity and integration, as we are in the UK lets speak English first and any other language as a personal choice.
Yes, this is what the article is saying. The (very small) percentages are of people who speak other languages as SECOND languages.
[quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: To encourage unity and integration, as we are in the UK lets speak English first and any other language as a personal choice.[/p][/quote]Yes, this is what the article is saying. The (very small) percentages are of people who speak other languages as SECOND languages. P.C.B.
  • Score: 2

5:16am Tue 12 Aug 14

P.C.B. says...

Loud Fat American wrote:
Perhaps you should consider a name change...Perhaps Subpar Britton would be more appropriate...hard to believe that at some juncture you wimps ruled the world...the sun never sets and all that tripe. Two small arse whoopings from us, your cousins across the pond and you've turned into Shiite. You are being conquered from the inside. No mention or your Muslim invasion in this...at the rate you are going....I hope you like sharia law and your women In burkas...with the teeth I've seen on some of your folks..may improve looks. I'm certain I'll be viciously attacked for this posting...however I'm not worried...if you aren't willing to fight for your British identity, how strong can be you vitriol for me
Please keep in mind that this is an article about speakers who have a second language in addition to English. I'm not quite sure how your comment is related, I find it detracts from logical, useful debate.

I'm willing to fight for a British identity of acceptance and acceptance and humanism. Great Britain has always been made up of diverse ethnic groups, Irish, Scottish, Welsh, English, Cornish, etc. the larger mix is down to our colonial history (when us 'wimps ruled the world'). The percentages cited in the article hardly point towards a 'conquering from the inside' - when English is still unequivocally the language of the USA when a much higher percentage have Spanish as a second language.
[quote][p][bold]Loud Fat American[/bold] wrote: Perhaps you should consider a name change...Perhaps Subpar Britton would be more appropriate...hard to believe that at some juncture you wimps ruled the world...the sun never sets and all that tripe. Two small arse whoopings from us, your cousins across the pond and you've turned into Shiite. You are being conquered from the inside. No mention or your Muslim invasion in this...at the rate you are going....I hope you like sharia law and your women In burkas...with the teeth I've seen on some of your folks..may improve looks. I'm certain I'll be viciously attacked for this posting...however I'm not worried...if you aren't willing to fight for your British identity, how strong can be you vitriol for me[/p][/quote]Please keep in mind that this is an article about speakers who have a second language in addition to English. I'm not quite sure how your comment is related, I find it detracts from logical, useful debate. I'm willing to fight for a British identity of acceptance and acceptance and humanism. Great Britain has always been made up of diverse ethnic groups, Irish, Scottish, Welsh, English, Cornish, etc. the larger mix is down to our colonial history (when us 'wimps ruled the world'). The percentages cited in the article hardly point towards a 'conquering from the inside' - when English is still unequivocally the language of the USA when a much higher percentage have Spanish as a second language. P.C.B.
  • Score: 2

5:28am Tue 12 Aug 14

P.C.B. says...

Villagecranberry wrote:
parkingtrouble wrote:
P.C.B. wrote:
parkingtrouble wrote:
P.C.B. wrote:
parkingtrouble wrote:
How many foreigners actually bothered to complete the census?

It is a meaningless set of statistics.

It tells me nothing.

I don't believe it serves any purpose unless someone is trying to make out that uncontrolled immigration is not having the effect it really has.

Take the Farrage test and see how many people on your train or bus are British by birth and have English as their first language.
I fail to see what having English as your first language has to do with immigration.

I also fail to see the logic (let alone the point) in the 'Farage Test': Plenty of people who are 'British by birth' are bilingual speaking one language at home and one at school / work etc.. The language we speak tells us nothing about our nationality or immigration status. It could be the case that an area is made-up 100% of Canadian immigrants - they have English as a first language so how does the so called 'Farage Test' apply to them?

Whilst we're on the subject, English has no legal status as an official language of the UK (Welsh does), would you have the same reaction if people were speaking Welsh? Or is it the languages that are cited in the article, Urdu, Polish etc. indicative of prejudices towards these people?
Does P.C,B. stand for Politically Correct ****?

The Canadians have more sense than to move to the UK

I know one.

Australians I know a few but only one permanently based here but yearning to return.

South Africans in Leytonstone area seem to have disappeared.

Never been many Yanks (sorry U.S. citizens) wanting to do more than a quick visit.

Just stand outside Leytonstone tube station during the school run.

The place is overrun with immigrants.

Just my personal view and experience of how things have changed in the past 27 years of living in the area. But I don't suppose that counts for anything.
Well it counts for something in that it's your opinion and that your opinion has a direct influence on cultural integration.

What worries me is that articles like this are used to support an anti-immigration standpoint with very spurious logic.

Places change, society evolves but any claim that 'English is in danger' is just a lie. When you stand outside the Tube and see Leytonstone 'overrun' with immigrants, those children are going to sit on a tube and see adverts 100% in English, announcements in English, they'll arrive at school to be educated in English, where all official communication is in English - the 'threat' is imaginary and part of a wider anti-immigration discourse.
I am old enough to have seen and accepted plenty of change but it has reached a point where it has changed too much for my liking.
Fine for the liberal lefties who put pressure on people to embrace change or be accused of being racist.

Less than half the population of London is White British.
37% of the London population were born outside of the UK.

Uncontrolled immigration is clearly putting an unacceptable strain on the NHS, Schools and Housing.

Only a matter of time before the UK store is stripped bare and the reasons they queue in Calais to get here have disappeared, never to return.

Enjoy the enriched culture whilst it lasts.
You are trying to convey the reality to people who walk down a blind alley every day. Look at this Jihad War flags in Poplar High St today.

The tens of thousands who died in the First World War and Second World War must be turning in their graves.

Our biggest enemies are within, mainly liberals and especially champagne socialists.
Presumably only the English monolingual soldiers are turning in their graves not the countless allies who spoke other languages...

Please realise there is a big difference between respecting somebody's right to use another language in specific contexts and supporting Jihadi war flags.

Jihadists often hold extremist views and they are called-out on it and they are, quite rightly not accepted, however English-only, White-British-centri
c discourse is also extremist but happily goes unnoticed and accepted as the norm for the majority.
[quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]parkingtrouble[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P.C.B.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]parkingtrouble[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P.C.B.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]parkingtrouble[/bold] wrote: How many foreigners actually bothered to complete the census? It is a meaningless set of statistics. It tells me nothing. I don't believe it serves any purpose unless someone is trying to make out that uncontrolled immigration is not having the effect it really has. Take the Farrage test and see how many people on your train or bus are British by birth and have English as their first language.[/p][/quote]I fail to see what having English as your first language has to do with immigration. I also fail to see the logic (let alone the point) in the 'Farage Test': Plenty of people who are 'British by birth' are bilingual speaking one language at home and one at school / work etc.. The language we speak tells us nothing about our nationality or immigration status. It could be the case that an area is made-up 100% of Canadian immigrants - they have English as a first language so how does the so called 'Farage Test' apply to them? Whilst we're on the subject, English has no legal status as an official language of the UK (Welsh does), would you have the same reaction if people were speaking Welsh? Or is it the languages that are cited in the article, Urdu, Polish etc. indicative of prejudices towards these people?[/p][/quote]Does P.C,B. stand for Politically Correct ****? The Canadians have more sense than to move to the UK I know one. Australians I know a few but only one permanently based here but yearning to return. South Africans in Leytonstone area seem to have disappeared. Never been many Yanks (sorry U.S. citizens) wanting to do more than a quick visit. Just stand outside Leytonstone tube station during the school run. The place is overrun with immigrants. Just my personal view and experience of how things have changed in the past 27 years of living in the area. But I don't suppose that counts for anything.[/p][/quote]Well it counts for something in that it's your opinion and that your opinion has a direct influence on cultural integration. What worries me is that articles like this are used to support an anti-immigration standpoint with very spurious logic. Places change, society evolves but any claim that 'English is in danger' is just a lie. When you stand outside the Tube and see Leytonstone 'overrun' with immigrants, those children are going to sit on a tube and see adverts 100% in English, announcements in English, they'll arrive at school to be educated in English, where all official communication is in English - the 'threat' is imaginary and part of a wider anti-immigration discourse.[/p][/quote]I am old enough to have seen and accepted plenty of change but it has reached a point where it has changed too much for my liking. Fine for the liberal lefties who put pressure on people to embrace change or be accused of being racist. Less than half the population of London is White British. 37% of the London population were born outside of the UK. Uncontrolled immigration is clearly putting an unacceptable strain on the NHS, Schools and Housing. Only a matter of time before the UK store is stripped bare and the reasons they queue in Calais to get here have disappeared, never to return. Enjoy the enriched culture whilst it lasts.[/p][/quote]You are trying to convey the reality to people who walk down a blind alley every day. Look at this Jihad War flags in Poplar High St today. The tens of thousands who died in the First World War and Second World War must be turning in their graves. Our biggest enemies are within, mainly liberals and especially champagne socialists.[/p][/quote]Presumably only the English monolingual soldiers are turning in their graves not the countless allies who spoke other languages... Please realise there is a big difference between respecting somebody's right to use another language in specific contexts and supporting Jihadi war flags. Jihadists often hold extremist views and they are called-out on it and they are, quite rightly not accepted, however English-only, White-British-centri c discourse is also extremist but happily goes unnoticed and accepted as the norm for the majority. P.C.B.
  • Score: 3

7:26am Tue 12 Aug 14

parkingtrouble says...

P.C.B. wrote:
Fact - the majority of the people in the world are (at least) bi-lingual.

Fact - a child's ability to speak 'proper English' will be in no way hampered by their linguistic input at home as long as English is the vehicular language of their school.

Fact - if you feel uncomfortable hearing other languages you are xenophobic.

I (still) wonder if you would feel as uncomfortable if you heard Welsh or Ulster Scots spoken in the street or even American English?

Seeing as we're harking back to the 'good old days' maybe we should all speak like this: https://www.youtube.

com/watch?v=mBRP-o6Q

85s after-all, what's more British than the Queen, eh?

The headline for, focus of and response to this article should be 'at last Britons are catching up with the rest of the world in terms of language learning'.

The very fact that the comments have turned into a debate about immigration is a) worrying and b) ill-informed (although the article leads itself to such scaremongering). There is no indication of these speakers' nationalities and to assume, just because they speak another language alongside English, that they are not British, is a dangerous thing to do. If the logic is that Britons cannot have a second language then that is ridiculous - why do we teach children languages at school (not a labour policy I feel the need to point out) if we don't want to encourage linguistic abilities...?
This clearly has nothing to do with Brits picking up a second language. It is the influx of foreigners and that is an indisputable fact.

Do you honestly believe the indigenous population is going to schol to learn Polish, Lithuanian, Tamil, etc.?

I love foreign languages and try to use the little I know wherever I go. The English speaking population (as a first language) are incredibly lazy at languages. Mainly because most other countries learn English, it is one of the most widely used languages in the world and our schools are bad at teaching languages.

We hosted foreign students and had a 16 year German girl who was studying Shakespere. She certainly spoke English better than our family.
[quote][p][bold]P.C.B.[/bold] wrote: Fact - the majority of the people in the world are (at least) bi-lingual. Fact - a child's ability to speak 'proper English' will be in no way hampered by their linguistic input at home as long as English is the vehicular language of their school. Fact - if you feel uncomfortable hearing other languages you are xenophobic. I (still) wonder if you would feel as uncomfortable if you heard Welsh or Ulster Scots spoken in the street or even American English? Seeing as we're harking back to the 'good old days' maybe we should all speak like this: https://www.youtube. com/watch?v=mBRP-o6Q 85s after-all, what's more British than the Queen, eh? The headline for, focus of and response to this article should be 'at last Britons are catching up with the rest of the world in terms of language learning'. The very fact that the comments have turned into a debate about immigration is a) worrying and b) ill-informed (although the article leads itself to such scaremongering). There is no indication of these speakers' nationalities and to assume, just because they speak another language alongside English, that they are not British, is a dangerous thing to do. If the logic is that Britons cannot have a second language then that is ridiculous - why do we teach children languages at school (not a labour policy I feel the need to point out) if we don't want to encourage linguistic abilities...?[/p][/quote]This clearly has nothing to do with Brits picking up a second language. It is the influx of foreigners and that is an indisputable fact. Do you honestly believe the indigenous population is going to schol to learn Polish, Lithuanian, Tamil, etc.? I love foreign languages and try to use the little I know wherever I go. The English speaking population (as a first language) are incredibly lazy at languages. Mainly because most other countries learn English, it is one of the most widely used languages in the world and our schools are bad at teaching languages. We hosted foreign students and had a 16 year German girl who was studying Shakespere. She certainly spoke English better than our family. parkingtrouble
  • Score: 0

11:46am Tue 12 Aug 14

stickmanny says...

Ferdy54 wrote:
There's not a lot we can do about people coming in from the EU, but from outside there should be strict granting of visas for people like Australia. And make them expensive so they can't afford them :-)

Just turning up at places like the A&E at Whipps for free treatment shouldn't be allowed. Also teachers at various, mainly junior, schools in the borough are wasting their time trying to teach foreign kids English, because as soon as their parents pick them up they only talk to them in their own language. I know that some parents don't even want to learn to speak English!!! :-/
Even though it would cost much more to implement a charging system than it would collect?

In 2011 there were approx 130,000 people in this country that could not speak English well. There are more important things to care about than this.
[quote][p][bold]Ferdy54[/bold] wrote: There's not a lot we can do about people coming in from the EU, but from outside there should be strict granting of visas for people like Australia. And make them expensive so they can't afford them :-) Just turning up at places like the A&E at Whipps for free treatment shouldn't be allowed. Also teachers at various, mainly junior, schools in the borough are wasting their time trying to teach foreign kids English, because as soon as their parents pick them up they only talk to them in their own language. I know that some parents don't even want to learn to speak English!!! :-/[/p][/quote]Even though it would cost much more to implement a charging system than it would collect? In 2011 there were approx 130,000 people in this country that could not speak English well. There are more important things to care about than this. stickmanny
  • Score: 0

7:51pm Tue 12 Aug 14

parkingtrouble says...

@stickmanny

your source of information for the 130,000 please.

Also what other important things are you caring about at the moment?
@stickmanny your source of information for the 130,000 please. Also what other important things are you caring about at the moment? parkingtrouble
  • Score: 0

8:30pm Tue 12 Aug 14

spikee17 says...

Well, I'm sick of 'em. 40 years I've had and I've had enough as did my Mum and Dad and the rest of my family when they saved enough money to move to a decent place (as Waltham Forest used to be when I grew up) My Dad has been mugged at Bakers Arms, my Mum is scared to walk down the market at 70 years old. Bye Walthamstow. Good riddance
Well, I'm sick of 'em. 40 years I've had and I've had enough as did my Mum and Dad and the rest of my family when they saved enough money to move to a decent place (as Waltham Forest used to be when I grew up) My Dad has been mugged at Bakers Arms, my Mum is scared to walk down the market at 70 years old. Bye Walthamstow. Good riddance spikee17
  • Score: 1

9:24pm Tue 12 Aug 14

stickmanny says...

parkingtrouble wrote:
@stickmanny

your source of information for the 130,000 please.

Also what other important things are you caring about at the moment?
Office for National Statistics

http://www.ons.gov.u
k/ons/dcp171776_3021
79.pdf

What do I care about? Unfairness:

Robin Williams, with privileged background and innate talent, has a lifelong addiction to drugs and alcohol which is viewed by the world with total sympathy.

Yet anyone else with those same addictions but no such advantage is treated like undeserving scum.
[quote][p][bold]parkingtrouble[/bold] wrote: @stickmanny your source of information for the 130,000 please. Also what other important things are you caring about at the moment?[/p][/quote]Office for National Statistics http://www.ons.gov.u k/ons/dcp171776_3021 79.pdf What do I care about? Unfairness: Robin Williams, with privileged background and innate talent, has a lifelong addiction to drugs and alcohol which is viewed by the world with total sympathy. Yet anyone else with those same addictions but no such advantage is treated like undeserving scum. stickmanny
  • Score: 0

10:04pm Tue 12 Aug 14

parkingtrouble says...

@stickmanny

Thanks for the link. Interesting read. Plenty of stats to support whatever agenda one has.

On the subject of fairness there are plenty of functioning alcoholics in the world, including some of my friends. It is surprisingly widespread.
Robin Williams could still make films but needed to visit rehab occassionally.

It's when you cannot function and don't get, or want help that it's a downward spiral.
@stickmanny Thanks for the link. Interesting read. Plenty of stats to support whatever agenda one has. On the subject of fairness there are plenty of functioning alcoholics in the world, including some of my friends. It is surprisingly widespread. Robin Williams could still make films but needed to visit rehab occassionally. It's when you cannot function and don't get, or want help that it's a downward spiral. parkingtrouble
  • Score: -1

11:08pm Wed 13 Aug 14

Toomanypeople says...

Villagecranberry wrote:
tjm01 wrote:
Villagecranberry wrote: The first step would be to stop the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages. People can translate language themselves these days by using the internet.
The first step to what?
Integration for a start.
Afraid that you have it the wrong way round. WE have to intergrate with them.
[quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tjm01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Villagecranberry[/bold] wrote: The first step would be to stop the publication of all public information leaflets in foreign languages. People can translate language themselves these days by using the internet.[/p][/quote]The first step to what?[/p][/quote]Integration for a start.[/p][/quote]Afraid that you have it the wrong way round. WE have to intergrate with them. Toomanypeople
  • Score: 1

11:10pm Wed 13 Aug 14

Toomanypeople says...

AMAEEssex wrote:
If similar maps were published for parts of Spain and France I suspect there would be several areas where English was the second language. We live in a very mobile world and people move a lot, including brits going the other way. Has the poster who kept crowing about leaving the UK realised that she is now an immigrant wherever she has gone to? I'm against spongers and people who want to impose their culture on us but not anti people who want to work hard and contribute.
Its the numbers. We are an Island. Look at the size of Spain.
[quote][p][bold]AMAEEssex[/bold] wrote: If similar maps were published for parts of Spain and France I suspect there would be several areas where English was the second language. We live in a very mobile world and people move a lot, including brits going the other way. Has the poster who kept crowing about leaving the UK realised that she is now an immigrant wherever she has gone to? I'm against spongers and people who want to impose their culture on us but not anti people who want to work hard and contribute.[/p][/quote]Its the numbers. We are an Island. Look at the size of Spain. Toomanypeople
  • Score: -2

11:17pm Wed 13 Aug 14

Toomanypeople says...

stickmanny wrote:
Haters If you don't like what's happening leave the rest of us to get on with it. Leigh on Sea is quite nice.
No its not, I moved to Westcliff 3 years ago and Southend, Westcliff and Leigh now has a very sizable drunk Eastern Europeans, Spanish,Portugese and Africans with loads of children that the schools cannot cope. People ARE concerned as the area has changed so much. NOT for the better Sickmanny.
[quote][p][bold]stickmanny[/bold] wrote: Haters If you don't like what's happening leave the rest of us to get on with it. Leigh on Sea is quite nice.[/p][/quote]No its not, I moved to Westcliff 3 years ago and Southend, Westcliff and Leigh now has a very sizable drunk Eastern Europeans, Spanish,Portugese and Africans with loads of children that the schools cannot cope. People ARE concerned as the area has changed so much. NOT for the better Sickmanny. Toomanypeople
  • Score: 2

6:59am Thu 14 Aug 14

stickmanny says...

Are those drunks actually British people who've learnt Polish in an attempt to integrate?
Are those drunks actually British people who've learnt Polish in an attempt to integrate? stickmanny
  • Score: 0

7:23am Thu 14 Aug 14

stickmanny says...

"Its the numbers. We are an Island. Look at the size of Spain."

This 'full up' argument is interesting. Do you have some figures on population densities?
"Its the numbers. We are an Island. Look at the size of Spain." This 'full up' argument is interesting. Do you have some figures on population densities? stickmanny
  • Score: 0

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