This is terrible. I would like to express my condolences to the families and friends of Adnan and the other young man who has been killed at St David's Court.

I used to live up that way,and feel i must send my condolences to the familys of these young men very,very,sad,i hope oeace returns to them one day.I must add i dont think its a case of where you live,i blame a goverment and do gooders with thier love everthing&everybody attitude,that has put decent people at risk,there is no more law &order.!!!!!

I live on that street and I am surprised that some-one would kill over a road rage incident but these days nothing should surprise me. Downsell road is a busy road and it is hard to find parking quite often could this have been the reason? If so how pathetic, killing for such little. You can't look at anyone in the wrong way or say or be in the wrong place and before you know it some one is dead!

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This is shocking. What are we coming too? The government has to make a stand once and for all. 2 killings within a few hours. also 2 further killings in neighbouring Edmonton and Tottenham yesterday. If the government and the law bring didn't introduce new laws about human rights then this certainly would not be happening. Unfortunately the law is on the side of the accused murderers, what do they get...No jail as too full up, get told we are encrouching on their human rights...No wonder why all and sundry are going out and killing as there is no punishment for those vile people committing the crimes. My sincere sympathy to the parents of both victims.

Am I the first person in the UK to notice that the London teenage killings in 2008 have been mostly in locations near incinerators?

When Robert Knox was killed at Sidcup, he was the 14th teenage victim and my local paper printed a letter of mine as eleven of the fourteen killings at that time had occurred near incinerators: five near Edmonton, three near SELCHP, one near Crossness sewage sludge incinerator, one near Kings College Hospital incinerator and Mr Knox near Sidcup Hospital incinerator.

Later killings have also followed same pattern.

If the Metropolitan Police have a map of London, I suggest they mark the incinetators and also the locations of the killings.

Kind regards,


Michael Ryan,
Shrewsbury

What is going on these days..its disgusting all the killings and still nothing is done for the young people stuck in the middle

Michael Ryan wrote:
Am I the first person in the UK to notice that the London teenage killings in 2008 have been mostly in locations near incinerators?

When Robert Knox was killed at Sidcup, he was the 14th teenage victim and my local paper printed a letter of mine as eleven of the fourteen killings at that time had occurred near incinerators: five near Edmonton, three near SELCHP, one near Crossness sewage sludge incinerator, one near Kings College Hospital incinerator and Mr Knox near Sidcup Hospital incinerator.

Later killings have also followed same pattern.

If the Metropolitan Police have a map of London, I suggest they mark the incinetators and also the locations of the killings.

Kind regards,


Michael Ryan,
Shrewsbury

Does your shrink know you are on the loose?

Emma wrote:
What is going on these days..its disgusting all the killings and still nothing is done for the young people stuck in the middle

Please Emma shut up till you know what you are talking about. Lots have things have been done to try and help these people even local residents are trying to interact with the local youth but most are not interested and are past help. They are at the stage where only the gang matters and NOTHING else. I live in the leytonstone area, 100 yards from last nights murder, even last weekend a youth event was put on at Downsell school to try and interact but whilst it was well attended I suspect that most of the people it was aimed at stayed away on purpose.

North Birkbeck Road was also taped off by the Police this morning, following some sort of incident. Frankly, living round here is embarrassing. Thugs, stabbings, fights, graffiti, piles and piles of litter, flytipping, endless fried chicken shops, children murdering each other over postcodes who really wish that E11 and E10 were in fact a tough area of Detroit or LA, drunks, beggars, DVD merchants, street gamblers, vandalism. Can't wait until the rest of the world sees it in 2012.

What is going on these days..its disgusting all the killings and still nothing is done for the young people stuck in the middle

What do you suggest then? Please don't tell me the kids are poor, or bored. Not stabbing someone isn't a hard choice, and it ain't nothing to do with income or boredom.

Michael Ryan wrote:
Am I the first person in the UK to notice that the London teenage killings in 2008 have been mostly in locations near incinerators?

When Robert Knox was killed at Sidcup, he was the 14th teenage victim and my local paper printed a letter of mine as eleven of the fourteen killings at that time had occurred near incinerators: five near Edmonton, three near SELCHP, one near Crossness sewage sludge incinerator, one near Kings College Hospital incinerator and Mr Knox near Sidcup Hospital incinerator.

Later killings have also followed same pattern.

If the Metropolitan Police have a map of London, I suggest they mark the incinetators and also the locations of the killings.

Kind regards,


Michael Ryan,
Shrewsbury

Michael, I think the connection is that incinerators are sited in places where poor people live.

Not that being poor makes you violent. But that people in affluent areas are able to insist on their problems being solved, just as they insist on incinerators being sited elsewhere.

But I do see your point. Pollution doesn't do anyone's brain any good.

They make incinerators in Shrewsbury. They also have a cathedral, which could be another random reason why the crime rate there is lower than here.

I actually think the way we are policed has a lot to do with things, which makes socio-economic comparisons difficult.

(Relative poverty would be interesting to look at, but the Shropshire County Council website has had all its economic statistics taken off it so making meaningful comparisons difficult. I am not sure that average people are that much better off in Shrewsbury than they are here - the people at the bottom of the socio-economic scales may even be worse off there by some measures of standards of living.)

But to get back to the real point here, two more local people have been killed. Violence, stabbings and shootings are too commonplace in our borough. These levels of violence have got to stop.

Its interesting to see that a black Ford Focus car was apparently involved in the first incident as it was also a black Ford Focus car that took away one of the victims of the stabbings in Clacton Road on the first May Bank holiday. Perhaps someone will follow this up???

I like Alan Smith and he's version of what the area is coming too.
I also think that things are getting out of control. Too many people thinking their thugs!!!
We have all had a fight but i just remember using ur fists????
I live on Hall Road, my dad on Stewart rd. scary thinking these people are on our streets and walking past our doors. Just a shame another life is lost just due to street REP!!!
Thoughts to the family.****

I'm a great believer in freedom of the press but I am wondering if all the reporting of knife crime is actually encouraging more of the same? Young people, who don't normally carry knives, start thinking they need to do so because it seems like everyone else is. It's all they see on TV and in papers.

Is it time for the press to soft-peddle on this for a bit?

I would be interested to know what others think?

More people have died on the roads in the past 48 hours than have been knifed to death. But there is no moral panic about cars designed to go at speeds vastly in excess of the 70 mph national speed limit, drivers who fit lethal bull bars to the front of their vehicles, or the thousands of drivers you see texting and talking on their mobes with one hand on the wheel.

Marilyn Sandy wrote:
I'm a great believer in freedom of the press but I am wondering if all the reporting of knife crime is actually encouraging more of the same? Young people, who don't normally carry knives, start thinking they need to do so because it seems like everyone else is. It's all they see on TV and in papers.

Is it time for the press to soft-peddle on this for a bit?

I would be interested to know what others think?

Mmm. i sometimes wonder about this too. Like when one teenage suicide is reported and then others follow. On the other hand, you can't not mention a murder.
Maybe the press should write a lot more about the boring unglamorous life in prison. But if all a kid's friends are there already he's not going to be bothered.
I don't know what the answer is, but I'm pretty sure you have to tackle this from several angles at the same time. The harsh angles are obvious: more police presence, tougher sentences, automatic jail term for carrying a knife. But what are the more persuasive tactics?
Maybe it's a question of convincing the scared kids that they're safe without a knife (and that has to be true) and convincing the aggressive ones that they'll spend a very boring decade in prison? The same kids are probably scared and aggressive.
And most important - you've got to convince people to stop sheltering murderers, because the next kid who gets killed could be their own.

This is what lax sentences and political correctness gets you. What deterrent is there to gangs? Sentences for serious crimes that ruin lives are often less than 20 months, and in the worst cases of murder 14 years is usually the average term served. Police are tied by political correctness as they cannot raise a finger against hostile and often violent individuals or groups. It seems that this system favours the crooks and gangs over the law abiding citizens who risk death or jail if they decide to stand up against louts and thugs.

This can only be stopped with severe sentences and a police force who are permitted to act tough when the it is appropriate. 1 year for GBH that cripple's the victim is pathetic, as 4 years for manslaughter and 14 years for murder. Increase sentences for all levels of violent crime like the Americans did and you will see crime drop.

Professor Richard Weisler, of University of North Carolina, checked the locations of cancer deaths after his mother died and found a cluster around an asphalt plant.

He then mapped the suicides and found an identical cluster which led him to suspect that emissions from the asphalt plant were causing both the cancers and the suicides.

Being a psychiatrist, Professor Weisler was aware that chemicals can affect the brain, as anyone who has used alcohol, tobacco, or other substances might have noticed.

Professor Weisler found a second suicide cluster that only appeared after a paper mill stopped discharging waste residues into a watercourse, but started to incinerate it instead.

If you enter into any seatch engine, you'll find plenty of items to get you thinking. The first "Weisler" press release, of December 2004, can be seen via link on left hand side of home pae at www.ukhr.org

When Dr John Snow correctly deduced that contaminated water must be the means of transmission of cholera , nobody believed him, and yet he was right.

I suggested in my earlier blog comment that the Metropolitan Police map the locations of the killings and also the incinerators.

Why will they not do so?

Is it because their political masters fear that people in London will then start to ask why none of the 22 electoral wards in London where there were zero infant deaths recorded in each of the five years 2002-2006 are in Enfield, Waltham Forest, Lewisham, Haringey, Newham etc.

If you want to know more about the air pollution/suicide link, ask Claire Duncn, of The Samaritans, who got a detailed e-mail from me this week about the Bridgend and Shropshire/Staffords
hire

Kind regards,

Michael Ryan
Shrewsbury

It's Claire Duncan who is the press officer for Samaritans, not Claire Duncn as typed above.

When Dr Dick van Steenis & I met Michael Gywnne, the coroner for Telford & Wrekin, we showed him rates of infant mortality, stillbirth, childhood asthma, cancers and heart attack around Ironbridge power station which showed elevated rates downwind compared with upwind.

Dr van Steenis told Mr Gwynne that the suicides would be mostly clustered in the electoral wards with high infant mortality rates & Mr Gwynne said: "That's rubbish - everyone knows that suicides are random."

I've examined Mr Gwynnes register of suspicious deaths and found Dr van Steenis to be correct.

Waltham Forest had a Councillor called Kathy Gosling, who was sure that Edmonton incinerator was causing high rate of illness.

If she checked the 2002-6 infant mortality rates for electoral wards in Enfield's 21 wards, she'd find the three highest rates are all in a single group that couldn;t be closer to the incinerator: Edmonton Green, Upper Edmonton, & Lower Edmonton.

The five Enfield wards with lowest rates are at the far upwind end of Borough: Southgate, Southagte Green, Grange, Highlands & Cockfosters.

If you want the 2002-2006 infant mortalit rates for all wards in Waltham Forest, ask Dr Pui-Ling Li of Waltham Forest PCT as she holds the same dataset as me. If she refuses to divulge, I'll send Waltham Forest Guardian the data, just as I've already sent London infant morrtality data to Alex Salmond to try & stop more incinerators in Scotland.

See Rob Edward's article about Scottish incinerators 29 June 2008 at www.robedwards.com

Kind regards,

Michael Ryan,
Shrewsbury

There is a strong correlation between poverty and child mortality (and a correlation between poverty and suicide, too, by the way). The three wards you describe as having the highest child mortality rates are among the 200 most deprived wards in London. The five wards with the highest mortality rates are among the 200 LEAST-deprived wards in London. There's your explanation.

I suggest that the highest infant mortality rates in WF will be in poor wards like Leyton, Cathall and Markhouse and the lowest in rich wards like Endlebury, Chingford Green and Hale End. The same will broadly go for suicide.

Now please stop spamming.

What I meant to say of course is that "The five wards with the LOWEST infant mortality rates are among the 200 LEAST-deprived wards in London." i.e. the richer you and your neighbours are, the healthier your babies will tend to be.

Michael Ryan wrote:
It's Claire Duncan who is the press officer for Samaritans, not Claire Duncn as typed above.

When Dr Dick van Steenis & I met Michael Gywnne, the coroner for Telford & Wrekin, we showed him rates of infant mortality, stillbirth, childhood asthma, cancers and heart attack around Ironbridge power station which showed elevated rates downwind compared with upwind.

Dr van Steenis told Mr Gwynne that the suicides would be mostly clustered in the electoral wards with high infant mortality rates & Mr Gwynne said: "That's rubbish - everyone knows that suicides are random."

I've examined Mr Gwynnes register of suspicious deaths and found Dr van Steenis to be correct.

Waltham Forest had a Councillor called Kathy Gosling, who was sure that Edmonton incinerator was causing high rate of illness.

If she checked the 2002-6 infant mortality rates for electoral wards in Enfield's 21 wards, she'd find the three highest rates are all in a single group that couldn;t be closer to the incinerator: Edmonton Green, Upper Edmonton, & Lower Edmonton.

The five Enfield wards with lowest rates are at the far upwind end of Borough: Southgate, Southagte Green, Grange, Highlands & Cockfosters.

If you want the 2002-2006 infant mortalit rates for all wards in Waltham Forest, ask Dr Pui-Ling Li of Waltham Forest PCT as she holds the same dataset as me. If she refuses to divulge, I'll send Waltham Forest Guardian the data, just as I've already sent London infant morrtality data to Alex Salmond to try & stop more incinerators in Scotland.

See Rob Edward's article about Scottish incinerators 29 June 2008 at www.robedwards.com

Kind regards,

Michael Ryan,
Shrewsbury

Are you saying that Adnan Patel committed suicide? Your theories may be of some minor interest, but would you mind peddling them at another time in another place? What sort of an insensitive monomaniac are you? People have been killed here.

The majority of these so called victims 'live and die by the sword' The youngster killed last week was posing with knives and guns in photographs and probably would have used the same. This is why everyone is leaving places like Waltham Forest to the dregs and vermin who breed like rats. On top of all this we have the influx of uncontrolled foreigners who have changed the face of the Borough beyond recognition. It is all right for diversity and 'multi-national ideals' but the original born and bred are now the ethnic minority. It is all out of control. Too many cultures. They only come here because the UK is a soft touch with Liberal idiots sucking up to them and defending the influx. Look at leyton High Road by ASDA. Gangs of 3 Card Tricksters and gangs of DVD sellers have made this the 'NORM' the Police are overstretched and they can do what they like. A security guard told me last week that it is 'only a matter of time' before someone is stabbed outside there due to gang rivalary. What this space as it is bound to kick off big time around there as they have been left to their own devices. This Borough is horrific now and The Council, Police and ultimately the Government are to blame. You would never see this sort of stuff going on in Sweden or Switzerland.
It is going to get worse also as the economy is on a down turn and desperate people do desperate things.

Doesn't Goatse bother to read the Waltham Forest Guardian?

Chingford Green has the highest infant mortality rate in Waltham Forest for the 5-year period 2002-2006. Does the fact that it's a "non-deprived" electoral ward mean that the deaths of these babies aren't natural?

Goatse hasn't a clue about infant mortality or any other adverse health outcome of industrial PM2.5 emissions.

In the 3-year period 2003-2005, Chingford Green had the 2nd-highest infant mortality rate out of the 625 electoral ward s in London, when City of London is counted as a single ward.

Harrow isn't a poor area, and yet Harrow Borough had the highest infant mortality rate in London in 2005 at 9.7 deaths per 1,000 live births and the Harrow Observer of 3 May 2007 had a 3-page article, headed "BABY KILLER?" which was similar to the Enfield Advertiser 3-page article of 25 May 2007 "THE BABY KILLER?", where the Harrow paper had picture of Colnbrook incinerator on page 1, while Edmonton was on page 1 of the Enfield paper.

Isn't there anyone who reads the Waltham Forest Guardian who has had to bury their baby, or has attended the funeral of a baby of their friend or relative and who wonders whether anything can be done to prevent further loss of life?

I'm not "poor", or "deprived" and yet have buried two of my children, one at 14 weeks of age and the other at 19 years.

You know nothing Goatse and seek to stop me providing information that can help prevent tragedy. Why are you doing it? Are you an employee of London Waste Authority?

How about Waltham Forest PCT?

Maybe you work for the Environment Agency?

Maybe you're just a sad sack who enjoys being a hard-case at a keyboard and a bit of a mousein real life.

What are you Goatse? A man or a mouse?

Shall I pass the cheese?

Kind regards,

Michael Ryan,
Shrewsbury

We need a 10 year minimum sentence for carrying a knife and life for stabbing in harsh prisons. Problem would be solved overnight.

But our soft Labour government will never do this. Shame on those who voted them in

Who will Sam?

my condolences to the family of adnan patel, i am shocked to hear this in my local area, something needs to be done about this asap, waltham forest is not geting safer

Michael Ryan wrote:
Doesn't Goatse bother to read the Waltham Forest Guardian?

Chingford Green has the highest infant mortality rate in Waltham Forest for the 5-year period 2002-2006. Does the fact that it's a "non-deprived" electoral ward mean that the deaths of these babies aren't natural?

Goatse hasn't a clue about infant mortality or any other adverse health outcome of industrial PM2.5 emissions.

In the 3-year period 2003-2005, Chingford Green had the 2nd-highest infant mortality rate out of the 625 electoral ward s in London, when City of London is counted as a single ward.

Harrow isn't a poor area, and yet Harrow Borough had the highest infant mortality rate in London in 2005 at 9.7 deaths per 1,000 live births and the Harrow Observer of 3 May 2007 had a 3-page article, headed "BABY KILLER?" which was similar to the Enfield Advertiser 3-page article of 25 May 2007 "THE BABY KILLER?", where the Harrow paper had picture of Colnbrook incinerator on page 1, while Edmonton was on page 1 of the Enfield paper.

Isn't there anyone who reads the Waltham Forest Guardian who has had to bury their baby, or has attended the funeral of a baby of their friend or relative and who wonders whether anything can be done to prevent further loss of life?

I'm not "poor", or "deprived" and yet have buried two of my children, one at 14 weeks of age and the other at 19 years.

You know nothing Goatse and seek to stop me providing information that can help prevent tragedy. Why are you doing it? Are you an employee of London Waste Authority?

How about Waltham Forest PCT?

Maybe you work for the Environment Agency?

Maybe you're just a sad sack who enjoys being a hard-case at a keyboard and a bit of a mousein real life.

What are you Goatse? A man or a mouse?

Shall I pass the cheese?

Kind regards,

Michael Ryan,
Shrewsbury

Go away you lunatic

My condolences to both families of the victims.
These are callous and brutal acts and it is becoming an everyday thing. I live by Wood Street where this tragic incident took place.I have never known anything like this to happen since I have been a resident here. It just shows that you still have to be on your guard. The masked suspect is still on the loose and who knows who may be the next victim. I wish all this would end. It is not cool and does not give them kudos or respect as they so believe. RIP to both of these victims, whose lives have been taken away so sudden.

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Something else that happened thsi weekend was dozens of 'youths' came to the dance festival and danced. Many stayed to watch a film afterwards. A good time was had by all. Please don't think all or even the majority of teenagers are knife wielding thugs. That is simply not the case and is an insult to the majority who are decent citizens.

Did residents of Waltham Forest ridicule Cllr Kathy Gosling when she raised concerns about possible link between emissions from Edmonton incinerator and high rates of illness in the Borough?

Where was Goatse & others when the Sunday Express article of 29 April 2007, "Incinerators linked to hundreds of infant deaths" came out?

That article was a gift for FoE & Greenpeace who wibble on about incinerators being harmful, but fail to look for any data to back up their claims.

You're all paying for t he big fat salaries at Waltham Forest PCT & the Borough Council and they are relying on the locals being to lazy or too dim or too ill or too frightened to start asking searching questions.

Remember that it was the dog breeders in the US that first realised that mercury in vaccines was altering the behaviour of dogs whose bloodlines and traits they knew very well. Mercury was banned in dog vaccines in US long before in human vaccines.

Kind regards,

Michael Ryan,
Shrewsbury

Michael, I'm sad to hear that two of your children died. Instead of just feeling sorry for yourself, it sounds as if you've been trying to find out what caused their deaths and maybe stop it causing other deaths. I admire your efforts.

I don't know if your theory is right, but certainly we're only now starting to discover how much illness is caused by various kinds of pollution.