WALTHAMSTOW: Man killed in early morning crash

The scene this morning.

The scene this morning.

First published in News East London and West Essex Guardian Series: Photograph of the Author by , Senior reporter

ONE man was killed and another seriously injured when the car they were travelling in crashed into a pub.

It is believed that the smash happened between 4.30 to 5am, when the vehicle hit a curb on Forest Road before swerving into the Bell pub at the junction with Hoe Street.

The man who died is believed to be 20 years-old while the other victim is thought to be aged in his twenties.

It is unclear which man is the driver.

Police have not release their details because they are awaiting formal identification.

No other vehicles were involved.

Forest Road was closed between the Bell corner and Walthamstow Magistrates Court but police have since re-opened it.

One of the occupants of the silver BMW 328i coupe was taken to the Royal London Hosptial in Whitechapel with spinal injuries.

A post mortem is yet to take place.

The crash happened inches from the scene where 25-year-old Walthamstow man Bobby Khan died in a car smash in July 2007.

Officers from the Collision Investigation Unit are investigating.

Any witnesses should call 020 8597 4874 or to remain anonymous call Crimestoppers on 0800 555 111.

Comments (15)

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10:18am Mon 9 Mar 09

Claridger says...

This is a notorious accident blackspot.

There have been numerous accidents at this location over the years and calming measures are now a high priority in the form of a chicane or longer phasing for the traffic signals in my opinion.
This is a notorious accident blackspot. There have been numerous accidents at this location over the years and calming measures are now a high priority in the form of a chicane or longer phasing for the traffic signals in my opinion. Claridger
  • Score: 0

10:59am Mon 9 Mar 09

MD250 says...

Claridger wrote:
This is a notorious accident blackspot.

There have been numerous accidents at this location over the years and calming measures are now a high priority in the form of a chicane or longer phasing for the traffic signals in my opinion.
its a major junction , where are you going to put a chicane .... longer phasing of lights will increase the accidents as drivers will be more frustrated waiting....does the gazette group of papers pay you to comment like an idiot? to increase volume on its sites

greyhounds, dog tracks, bus stops,
traffic black spots , your an expert on all are'nt you :-)



[quote][p][bold]Claridger[/bold] wrote: This is a notorious accident blackspot. There have been numerous accidents at this location over the years and calming measures are now a high priority in the form of a chicane or longer phasing for the traffic signals in my opinion.[/p][/quote]its a major junction , where are you going to put a chicane .... longer phasing of lights will increase the accidents as drivers will be more frustrated waiting....does the gazette group of papers pay you to comment like an idiot? to increase volume on its sites greyhounds, dog tracks, bus stops, traffic black spots , your an expert on all are'nt you :-) MD250
  • Score: 0

11:54am Mon 9 Mar 09

Claridger says...

The traffic calming measures installed along High Road Leytonstone from the Green Man Roundabout all through to Maryland Point (Olympic Village Zone) have vastly improved the control of the excess speed limits and curtailed accident frequency and severity.

A mixture of measures, ramps and junction calming has increased pedestrian usage. Together with the improved Public Transport Bus timetables, this has certainly had a positive effect on traffic flow and safety to both pedestrains and cyle users.

It may be the case that a similar scheme could indeed work here.

There may even be a budget for this available in The Mayor for London's Transport Budget or as it is in the Olympic Borough, the Olympic Fund.

We worth a look at in my view.
The traffic calming measures installed along High Road Leytonstone from the Green Man Roundabout all through to Maryland Point (Olympic Village Zone) have vastly improved the control of the excess speed limits and curtailed accident frequency and severity. A mixture of measures, ramps and junction calming has increased pedestrian usage. Together with the improved Public Transport Bus timetables, this has certainly had a positive effect on traffic flow and safety to both pedestrains and cyle users. It may be the case that a similar scheme could indeed work here. There may even be a budget for this available in The Mayor for London's Transport Budget or as it is in the Olympic Borough, the Olympic Fund. We worth a look at in my view. Claridger
  • Score: 0

12:25pm Mon 9 Mar 09

Pamella says...

that is a bad junction and its about time the sequencing of the lioghts was looked at, people do get frustrated waiting and waiting at those lights, so when people get a chance to 'bomb along' when the roads are clear, they take it, and unfortunately with devastating consequences...
that is a bad junction and its about time the sequencing of the lioghts was looked at, people do get frustrated waiting and waiting at those lights, so when people get a chance to 'bomb along' when the roads are clear, they take it, and unfortunately with devastating consequences... Pamella
  • Score: 0

12:46pm Mon 9 Mar 09

Slowdown says...

Is this crash and the one that killed Bobby Khan likely to have been a result of speeding?
Is it possible to clip a kerb and cause a crash like that at 30mph? It is a 30mph speed limit, right? Maybe the police will be able to answer the question or maybe the statement they give won't even mention it.
Terribly sad and a waste of a life. I hope the other man makes a full recovery from his injuries although I doubt he'll recover psychologically.
Thank god no one using the pavement was hit.
Is this crash and the one that killed Bobby Khan likely to have been a result of speeding? Is it possible to clip a kerb and cause a crash like that at 30mph? It is a 30mph speed limit, right? Maybe the police will be able to answer the question or maybe the statement they give won't even mention it. Terribly sad and a waste of a life. I hope the other man makes a full recovery from his injuries although I doubt he'll recover psychologically. Thank god no one using the pavement was hit. Slowdown
  • Score: 0

12:51pm Mon 9 Mar 09

mdj says...

It's curious as well as very sad to see two fatal single-vehicle accidents at the same spot in such a short time.
Without speculating on this, there are certainly shortcomings in the lighting and signage: eg no right-turn filter time allowed out of Hoe St into Forest Rd; instantaneous change from Red at Hoe St - Green at Forest Rd westbound, which compels risk-taking. Then there's the problem with the Le Mans-style right-turn hill start across a yellow box to get up Howard Rd if the waiting cars let you, plus all the eastbound traffic breathing down your neck. Also, it's ambiguous when exactly you can turn right into Hoe St, plus the dreaded three lanes-into-two eastbound which make so much of the 406 a place of fear. This junction is a much better subject for study and expenditure than the many road humps of lesser utility that are going into the side roads. This happens because of separate budgets and responsibilities for different roads: the Council understandably spends money on those situations where it has some control, but it could be pushing the Highway authority harder.
It's curious as well as very sad to see two fatal single-vehicle accidents at the same spot in such a short time. Without speculating on this, there are certainly shortcomings in the lighting and signage: eg no right-turn filter time allowed out of Hoe St into Forest Rd; instantaneous change from Red at Hoe St - Green at Forest Rd westbound, which compels risk-taking. Then there's the problem with the Le Mans-style right-turn hill start across a yellow box to get up Howard Rd if the waiting cars let you, plus all the eastbound traffic breathing down your neck. Also, it's ambiguous when exactly you can turn right into Hoe St, plus the dreaded three lanes-into-two eastbound which make so much of the 406 a place of fear. This junction is a much better subject for study and expenditure than the many road humps of lesser utility that are going into the side roads. This happens because of separate budgets and responsibilities for different roads: the Council understandably spends money on those situations where it has some control, but it could be pushing the Highway authority harder. mdj
  • Score: 0

1:17pm Mon 9 Mar 09

Ferdy50 says...

Claridger wrote:
The traffic calming measures installed along High Road Leytonstone from the Green Man Roundabout all through to Maryland Point (Olympic Village Zone) have vastly improved the control of the excess speed limits and curtailed accident frequency and severity. A mixture of measures, ramps and junction calming has increased pedestrian usage. Together with the improved Public Transport Bus timetables, this has certainly had a positive effect on traffic flow and safety to both pedestrains and cyle users. It may be the case that a similar scheme could indeed work here. There may even be a budget for this available in The Mayor for London's Transport Budget or as it is in the Olympic Borough, the Olympic Fund. We worth a look at in my view.
Of course its controlled the excess speed limit!!!

Its such a badly thought out system its made the speed limit 0mph most of the time from the Green Man Roundabout which in turn blocks the rest of the traffic trying to go round the roundabout on to the A12 southbound!!!

Just block all main roads, that'll bring the speed limit down!!!!!!!!!
[quote][p][bold]Claridger[/bold] wrote: The traffic calming measures installed along High Road Leytonstone from the Green Man Roundabout all through to Maryland Point (Olympic Village Zone) have vastly improved the control of the excess speed limits and curtailed accident frequency and severity. A mixture of measures, ramps and junction calming has increased pedestrian usage. Together with the improved Public Transport Bus timetables, this has certainly had a positive effect on traffic flow and safety to both pedestrains and cyle users. It may be the case that a similar scheme could indeed work here. There may even be a budget for this available in The Mayor for London's Transport Budget or as it is in the Olympic Borough, the Olympic Fund. We worth a look at in my view.[/p][/quote]Of course its controlled the excess speed limit!!! Its such a badly thought out system its made the speed limit 0mph most of the time from the Green Man Roundabout which in turn blocks the rest of the traffic trying to go round the roundabout on to the A12 southbound!!! Just block all main roads, that'll bring the speed limit down!!!!!!!!! Ferdy50
  • Score: 0

2:43pm Mon 9 Mar 09

CamillaJ says...

We desparately need a filter so drivers can turn into forest Road from Hoe Street and from Forest Road to Chingford Road. I have to take this route daily to pick my son up from nursery and i have to say it terrifies me how little time i have to turn a corner. What is one to do?

I am going to investigate further.
We desparately need a filter so drivers can turn into forest Road from Hoe Street and from Forest Road to Chingford Road. I have to take this route daily to pick my son up from nursery and i have to say it terrifies me how little time i have to turn a corner. What is one to do? I am going to investigate further. CamillaJ
  • Score: 0

3:21pm Mon 9 Mar 09

Claridger says...

CamillaJ wrote:
We desparately need a filter so drivers can turn into forest Road from Hoe Street and from Forest Road to Chingford Road. I have to take this route daily to pick my son up from nursery and i have to say it terrifies me how little time i have to turn a corner. What is one to do? I am going to investigate further.
This is a valid and important point Camilla. With some other restriction there like a raised platform or calming measure matters could be improved.

Drivers have already been discouraged from the side roads of Jewel and so on.
[quote][p][bold]CamillaJ[/bold] wrote: We desparately need a filter so drivers can turn into forest Road from Hoe Street and from Forest Road to Chingford Road. I have to take this route daily to pick my son up from nursery and i have to say it terrifies me how little time i have to turn a corner. What is one to do? I am going to investigate further.[/p][/quote]This is a valid and important point Camilla. With some other restriction there like a raised platform or calming measure matters could be improved. Drivers have already been discouraged from the side roads of Jewel and so on. Claridger
  • Score: 0

7:25pm Mon 9 Mar 09

Stow Away says...

Talk about a vast over reaction, in both cases were death has resulted it appears that no other vehicles were involved and that probably speed was the only major factor. personally I can't think of a more simple set of traffic lights, I use them countless times week, red one way stops, green the other way goes, why try to complicate something where there isn't a problem.
Talk about a vast over reaction, in both cases were death has resulted it appears that no other vehicles were involved and that probably speed was the only major factor. personally I can't think of a more simple set of traffic lights, I use them countless times week, red one way stops, green the other way goes, why try to complicate something where there isn't a problem. Stow Away
  • Score: 0

9:14am Tue 10 Mar 09

stowdad says...

Consider the type of car, the ages of the people involved and the time. The reults of the post-mortem might be interesting too. I wonder if the car had fancy (illegal) number plates and was blaring rap music when the incident happened. Traffic lights don't cause accidents.
Consider the type of car, the ages of the people involved and the time. The reults of the post-mortem might be interesting too. I wonder if the car had fancy (illegal) number plates and was blaring rap music when the incident happened. Traffic lights don't cause accidents. stowdad
  • Score: 0

12:10pm Tue 10 Mar 09

bewildered,e17 says...

unfortunately there will always be accidents as long as people drive vehicles, i believe there is a way to minimise accidents and take a large quantity of cars off the road, instead of the government forcing the poor to surrender their cars by pricing them off the road with congestion charges, high taxes, over-zealous parking enforcement etc. lets make the driving test much harder, its a huge responsibility being in control of something that weighs a tonne or more and moves at high speed, so i believe in order to obtain a licence to drive the test must be much more challenging and educational, this would improve driving standards resulting in safer roads whilst at the same time remove some of the far too many cars which clog our roads and our air. what do you think?
unfortunately there will always be accidents as long as people drive vehicles, i believe there is a way to minimise accidents and take a large quantity of cars off the road, instead of the government forcing the poor to surrender their cars by pricing them off the road with congestion charges, high taxes, over-zealous parking enforcement etc. lets make the driving test much harder, its a huge responsibility being in control of something that weighs a tonne or more and moves at high speed, so i believe in order to obtain a licence to drive the test must be much more challenging and educational, this would improve driving standards resulting in safer roads whilst at the same time remove some of the far too many cars which clog our roads and our air. what do you think? bewildered,e17
  • Score: 0

12:48pm Tue 10 Mar 09

Ferdy50 says...

It is a bit unusual that it was a white person driving a BMW.
It is a bit unusual that it was a white person driving a BMW. Ferdy50
  • Score: 0

12:51pm Tue 10 Mar 09

Doc_b says...

Sorry that someone kills them self this way but it was a single vehicle accident, involving a powerful car at on what would have been an empty road (at 4:30 in the morning), who can you blame but the driver?

Like the previous poster I firmly believe in stricter controls and better training. There is no post driving test training, unless taken voluntarily. Maybe it should be compulsory. IAM and RoSPA driver training attempt to address driver attitudes as well as skills for example. Many young drivers like their powerful cars and the temptation to explore the performance on empty roads is one they find hard to resist. As someone who does lots of miles through work and commuting I see poor and reckless driving every day, not exclusively confined to young people.

I see nothing wrong with the notion that inexperienced drivers of whatever age should be restricted on the type/power of car they can drive not just through the prohibitive insurance premium. Maybe a second layer test should be taken for performance cars. Informally insurance companies sometimes ban inexperienced drivers from driving performance cars if they haven't had some experience with a suitable powerful car, I think this should be much more formal. Having said that I see just as many dangerous situations arise where the driver is traveling slowly but seemingly not fully in control or demonstrating skilled driving and making random maneuvers or turns and lane changes. Driving is a skill that has to be learned and bad behaviours have to be unlearned.

As a member of a performance car club I see a lot of reports by members of single vehicle accidents and I don't have a lot of sympathy tbh, if you're the only vehicle involved there's pretty much no circumstance where the fault doesn't lie with you.
Sorry that someone kills them self this way but it was a single vehicle accident, involving a powerful car at on what would have been an empty road (at 4:30 in the morning), who can you blame but the driver? Like the previous poster I firmly believe in stricter controls and better training. There is no post driving test training, unless taken voluntarily. Maybe it should be compulsory. IAM and RoSPA driver training attempt to address driver attitudes as well as skills for example. Many young drivers like their powerful cars and the temptation to explore the performance on empty roads is one they find hard to resist. As someone who does lots of miles through work and commuting I see poor and reckless driving every day, not exclusively confined to young people. I see nothing wrong with the notion that inexperienced drivers of whatever age should be restricted on the type/power of car they can drive not just through the prohibitive insurance premium. Maybe a second layer test should be taken for performance cars. Informally insurance companies sometimes ban inexperienced drivers from driving performance cars if they haven't had some experience with a suitable powerful car, I think this should be much more formal. Having said that I see just as many dangerous situations arise where the driver is traveling slowly but seemingly not fully in control or demonstrating skilled driving and making random maneuvers or turns and lane changes. Driving is a skill that has to be learned and bad behaviours have to be unlearned. As a member of a performance car club I see a lot of reports by members of single vehicle accidents and I don't have a lot of sympathy tbh, if you're the only vehicle involved there's pretty much no circumstance where the fault doesn't lie with you. Doc_b
  • Score: 0

10:08pm Tue 10 Mar 09

Capt Jack Sparrow says...

Hang on a minute......

A young lad has died here, lets have a little respect and keep our 'holier than thou' comments off this page please? Maybe just take a few moments to climb off your soapboxes and maybe say RIP fella?
Hang on a minute...... A young lad has died here, lets have a little respect and keep our 'holier than thou' comments off this page please? Maybe just take a few moments to climb off your soapboxes and maybe say RIP fella? Capt Jack Sparrow
  • Score: 0

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