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Head of Islamic community group at Murray Hall sent threatening letter and subject to arson attack (From East London and West Essex Guardian Series)
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Head of Islamic community group at Murray Hall sent threatening letter and subject to arson attack
1:39pm Friday 3rd July 2009
THE head of a recently formed Islamic community group has received a threatening letter and had his house targeted by arsonists in an apparently racist campaign against him.
Noor Ramjanally, of Valley Hill, Loughton, said his family had been very shaken by the incidents which started after he hired the Murray Hall, in Borders Lane, for Islamic prayer sessions.
He told the Guardian: “Every Friday we have our prayers and meetings, then we disperse. This Wednesday I received a threatening letter saying: 'We don't want you to carry on at this. We know which school your kid goes to and which car you drive.'
“On Thursday they set fire to the front door of my home. They used an accelerant. It's with the police and they are doing all the checks.
“I'm ok, but my wife and kid are very disturbed. I've had to take my kid out of his school.
“It's definitely targeted. They don't want the Islamic community centre in Loughton, I don't know why.”
Mr Ramjanally started to rent the hall at the end of March, from Loughton Town Council, holding sessions under the name Loughton Islamic Community Centre.
Town council mayor Ken Angold-Stephens said: “Any sort of racial incident of this sort is something which is absolutely regrettable in our area. I do hope the culprits are found and dealt with accordingly. We can't tolerate any incidents of that sort.”
Despite the threats, Mr Ramjanally has said he will not be deterred and plans to continue his work as before.
He said: “I want to say whatever happens we're staying here. We just need people to know what we are doing. We have got a lot of support- we get about 30 to 40 people every week. They are not going to stop us.”
Essex Police have confirmed they are investigating both incidents as racially motivated.
Anyone with information should call police on 0300 333 4444
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Your Say Your Guardian
Fresh Gravee, Snaresbrook says...
4:31pm Fri 3 Jul 09
Simon Weekes-Hughes, says...
5:46pm Fri 3 Jul 09
The hall isn’t an “Islamic Community Centre” put a community hall for hire, so it is wrong for this group to try and rename the hall or to try and give the impression that it is a religious building.
I don’t question the need for an Islamic group in Loughton. I do however question the group’s choice of name and choice of venue. Murray Hall is in the Debden part of Loughton which is very much a pro BNP area, also Murray Hall is extremely close to a Jewish Synagogue, so have to wonder if there is an agenda with regards to their choice of venue.
JackSpur, South Woodford says...
7:13pm Fri 3 Jul 09
Simon Weekes-Hughes wrote:Don't think they have a hidden agenda. They are either unaware of how unpopular they are in that area or just plain crazy.
It is a valid point that Murray Hall was meant to be a religion free zone. The hall isn’t an “Islamic Community Centre” put a community hall for hire, so it is wrong for this group to try and rename the hall or to try and give the impression that it is a religious building. I don’t question the need for an Islamic group in Loughton. I do however question the group’s choice of name and choice of venue. Murray Hall is in the Debden part of Loughton which is very much a pro BNP area, also Murray Hall is extremely close to a Jewish Synagogue, so have to wonder if there is an agenda with regards to their choice of venue.
inézc, Epping says...
8:52pm Fri 3 Jul 09
ConcernedofLoughton, Epping Forest says...
8:38am Sat 4 Jul 09
9inch, Chigwell says...
9:12am Sat 4 Jul 09
danbrett, Loughton says...
11:00am Sat 4 Jul 09
As for other allegations of a "hidden agenda" by holding prayer services near a synagogue, has any member of the Jewish community complained and are these prayer services posing any problem for Jews? Of course not.
It is outrageous that someone should be intimidated in this community, but unsurprising. Muslims have a right to freedom of worship and freedom of speech just like anyone else.
No doubt extremists will attempt to use this issue to attempt to bully the 30 or so Muslims who want to pray together on a Friday evening, which makes it incumbent on the moderate majority to stand with them and give their support to Mr Ramjanally and fellow Muslims. And since there is a campaign of harassment against him and his family, the town council must ensure that the prayer service is held at Murray Hall in defiance of the anti-Muslim bigots and to deny them a victory.
danbrett, Loughton says...
11:44am Sat 4 Jul 09
tc.gov.uk/4ltmh.htm
In fact, at least one Christian group, Christcare Ministries, already uses the hall for services: http://christcaremin
istries.com/
If Christians can use it for their events without controversy, then so should Muslims and anyone else in the local community who needs a venue.
Fresh Gravee, Snaresbrook says...
12:25pm Sat 4 Jul 09
danbrett wrote:I think it is a general dislike and fear of people wearing the ninjas.
I just looked on the council's website and there's no mention that religious events cannot be held in Murray Hall. It says: "The building is available for hire for all sorts of different purposes - club nights and groups’ activities, meetings, classes, weddings and family celebrations, theatre performances, social occasions - the list is endless." http://www.loughton-
tc.gov.uk/4ltmh.htm
In fact, at least one Christian group, Christcare Ministries, already uses the hall for services: http://christcaremin
istries.com/
If Christians can use it for their events without controversy, then so should Muslims and anyone else in the local community who needs a venue.
bluewhale, Essex says...
1:23pm Sat 4 Jul 09
AishaD, Walthamstow says...
4:10pm Sat 4 Jul 09
danbrett wrote:As per usual Muslims have been a victim of islamophobic abuse, why? Seriously i would like to know why? What are people so afraid of? We believe in a God and if a person believes in a God then i very much doubt that his God would want him to harm anyone, it is common sense. It is high time that ignorant bigotts such as the BNP educated themselves by NOT reading the papers and/or watching the news which is completely biased and only demotes Islam. I am a white BRITISH Muslim woman and chose Islam because it is far better than British society which i actually am ashamed of. Danbrett is correct if there are not any rules for the use of the hal then ANYBODY should be able to use it regardless of religion. Stop being so bloody racist, its sickening!
I just looked on the council's website and there's no mention that religious events cannot be held in Murray Hall. It says: "The building is available for hire for all sorts of different purposes - club nights and groups’ activities, meetings, classes, weddings and family celebrations, theatre performances, social occasions - the list is endless." http://www.loughton- tc.gov.uk/4ltmh.htm In fact, at least one Christian group, Christcare Ministries, already uses the hall for services: http://christcaremin istries.com/ If Christians can use it for their events without controversy, then so should Muslims and anyone else in the local community who needs a venue.
danbrett, Loughton says...
4:58pm Sat 4 Jul 09
It is a big problem when a law-abiding Muslim decides to hold prayers for 45 minutes once a week in a community centre has a petrol bomb thrown at his house and threats against him and his family. People here are responding by implying that they deserved it in some way because it is a BNP ward and apparently performing salat is not permissible in Alderton ward. All councillors, whatever their party, should condemn without reservation violent attacks on those they are elected to represent and uphold their right to freedom of religion and freedom of worship in an atmosphere of tolerance and in accordance with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which enshrines the values of any democratic society.
9inch, Chigwell says...
9:36pm Sun 5 Jul 09
danbrett, Loughton says...
9:55pm Sun 5 Jul 09
Why should he? He's not an extremist. Should every Christian apologise for slavery, for the genocide of native Americans, for the Nazi Holocaust, etc? The notion that he should "put up" with having his house petrol bombed because he follows a religion in whose name atrocities were committed is itself condoning terrorism. You are no better than one of those who tries to justify terrorism in the name of Islam. And I think you should be the one apologising, not Mr Ramjanally. His only intention is to provide a space for a few Muslims to pray once a week, but you have ascribed to him views he has not expressed. It's the most disgusting and repulsive form of bigotry that only seeks to incite racial hatred and violence against a minority community.
Fresh Gravee, Snaresbrook says...
1:18pm Mon 6 Jul 09
Chanie271075, Loughton says...
1:32pm Mon 6 Jul 09
I dont know Mr Ramjanally but what this guy is going is great. I am a true believer in Christian and I definitely Condemned this action towards himself and family.
I am sure Mr Ramjanamally can use any hall or anywhere in Loughton for him to carry on his prayer.
Mr Ramjanally you have my Full support and WE will support you and your family all way through.
Any of you peoples out there should really be in touch with him to give him all the support.
9inch, Chigwell says...
5:38am Tue 7 Jul 09
danbrett wrote:Slavery and The Holocaust are HISTORICAL. Muselm extremism is happening RIGHT NOW in 'Islamic Community Centres' in Ilford, Barkingside, Finsbury Park and many places in the UK, why is it too much to ask that Mr Ramjanally publicly condemn and distance his new organisation from these other similarly named 'Islamic Community Centres' that are also close by that have been openly involved in religious extremism. I am not asking for an apology from Mr Ramjanally for historical events, simply for an assurance that his 'Islamic community Centre' is not like many other 'Islamic community centres' that engage in these activities, all he has to do is publicly condemn and disassociate his venture from these others, surely he would want to do this to avoid confusion and reassure the local community that his gatherings are completely peaceful and that they will not attract the extremists that do as a matter of proven fact practice locally within his community.
"So is Mr Ramjanally going to publicly condemn and distance himself from Muslem extremism?"
Why should he? He's not an extremist. Should every Christian apologise for slavery, for the genocide of native Americans, for the Nazi Holocaust, etc? The notion that he should "put up" with having his house petrol bombed because he follows a religion in whose name atrocities were committed is itself condoning terrorism. You are no better than one of those who tries to justify terrorism in the name of Islam. And I think you should be the one apologising, not Mr Ramjanally. His only intention is to provide a space for a few Muslims to pray once a week, but you have ascribed to him views he has not expressed. It's the most disgusting and repulsive form of bigotry that only seeks to incite racial hatred and violence against a minority community.
danbrett, Loughton says...
8:36am Tue 7 Jul 09
danbrett, Loughton says...
9:56am Tue 7 Jul 09
anotherresident, loughton says...
4:23pm Tue 7 Jul 09
People looking for an agenda in the location are indulging in a rather tedious conspiracy theory.
Those who attack the homes of people due to their religion are the bigots who help create extremists.
9inch, Chigwell says...
4:37pm Tue 7 Jul 09
danbrett, Loughton says...
5:05pm Tue 7 Jul 09
But you said "Mr Ramjanally, put up or shut up" - if you are not saying that he should put up with attacks on his home, then what are you suggesting?
Mr Ramjanally has reported a serious racist incident. Why must he then qualify his beliefs as if that would make him more or less deserving of having his family terrorised? HE is not committing crimes, HE is not a member of the Taliban or Al-Qaeda, HE wasn't involved in 9/11, so why the hell should he - as a victim of crime - make any statement on terrorist atrocities he has nothing to do with?
You said, "now we are supposed to be sympathetic when a representative of that same community launches a community group in Loughton without distancing him self and condemning those extremists." Clearly, you were implying that Muslims have some collective guilt and should make a special qualifying statement demonstrating that they are not planning to blow things up. Mr Ramjanally is not a terrorist and is not under suspicion, so should not be treated as a criminal.
9inch, Chigwell says...
8:34pm Tue 7 Jul 09
danbrett, Loughton says...
10:21pm Tue 7 Jul 09
But that's your unfounded allegation. How do you know he doesn't condemn terrorism? The story is about a racist attack on him, not about his views on extremism. You are trying to twist it around to portray him as a perpetrator of extremism, as if to excuse or downplay it. In short, you are libelling him perhaps because you, deep down, are indifferent towards or supportive of attacks on Muslims. Certainly, you have been working hard to downplay or dismiss this attack and change the topic.
"instead of making this a private matter between himself and the police"
No crime is a private matter between the police and the victim. It is a problem for the community as a whole. That's why we have crime statistics, police neighbourhood panels, neighbourhood watch, incident reports in the newspapers, etc. This attack is a matter for everyone to deal with.
My family were the target of a similar racist attack, although we are not Muslims. Frankly, we should have gone to the press instead of feeling too afraid to speak out because only then will Loughton face up to its deep-rooted problem with racism.
I salute Mr Ramjanally's courage in coming out and speaking about the attack on his family. He has given confidence to me and my family and I hope other victims of racist attacks in this town also start speaking out and ignore bigots like you who try to dismiss our concerns and attack us.
9inch, Chigwell says...
3:02am Wed 8 Jul 09
Chanie271075, Loughton says...
8:30am Wed 8 Jul 09
Talking to peoples around Mr Ramjanally when he started he organised an exhibition where the Essex Police and The Staples Road Junior School Attend. Do you there is something wrong here? Of course not. Slowly slowly he is trying to win the Loughton Community trust that we all can live in a multi faith area where everyone respect each other.
I would imagine Mr Ramjanally will eventually realease a statement shortly.
In the meantime be supportive to him NOT against him.
I am sure tomorrow you anyone in trouble and they go and seek help from his Centre he will be always here to help you.
I will be shortly organising a gathering in loughton to support Mr Ramjanlly. If anybody oppose what happen to Mr Ramjanlly I would invite you to meet in Sainsburys car park tomorrow at 4pm and show your support to Mr Ramjanally and Stop Racism in Loughton.
danbrett, Loughton says...
9:27am Wed 8 Jul 09
It's a disgusting smear against Mr Ramjanally to suggest that he is involved in any extremism. This article is about a serious racist attack, not about his political views. I've spoken to him and I don't for one moment think he is an extremist - quite the opposite, he wants to have good relations with the rest of the community. You have made judgements about him because you say he has not made a statement about his views - but this is not an article about his views, it is about him being a victim of an attack intended to harass and intimidate him and his family. And I suggest all decent people support him and stand with him.
9inch, Chigwell says...
9:36am Wed 8 Jul 09
series.co.uk/news/rb
news/4478996.REDBRID
GE__Religious_fanati
c_convicted_of_arson
/?ref=rss
danbrett, Loughton says...
9:48am Wed 8 Jul 09
9inch wrote:But you have tried your best to divert discussion from the racist attack - which is what this article is about - onto one about extremism and then claimed that Mr Ramjanally has not condemned extremism. How do you know he has not condemned extremism and terrorism? Have you met him? Have you given him an opportunity to state his case? Would this satisfy anti-Muslim bigots like you and the BNP? Probably not. There is an intention among the racists in Loughton, including some councillors, to drive out all non-white people and Muslims are a soft target for them. Labelling him as an extremist is a way to justify bullying him. But as we have been the victims of the same kind of abuse and we are not Muslims, I can state that this has zero to do with his religion or his views and everything to do with endemic racism in Loughton. If people want to prove that Loughton is a decent town, they should stand up and condemn unequivocally all racist attacks, including the one on Mr Ramjanally.
I have said nothing of the sort, simply that if he is going to open an Islamic Community Centre he should, as a leader of a local Islamic Organisation, condemn (as I do, and I am not even a Muslm) this kind of thing that is happening locally and within his Muslem community: http://www.guardian-
series.co.uk/news/rb
news/4478996.REDBRID
GE__Religious_fanati
c_convicted_of_arson
/?ref=rss
9inch, Chigwell says...
10:00am Wed 8 Jul 09
danbrett, Loughton says...
10:21am Wed 8 Jul 09
JackSpur, South Woodford says...
11:12am Wed 8 Jul 09
9inch, Chigwell says...
3:58pm Wed 8 Jul 09
danbrett, Loughton says...
4:15pm Wed 8 Jul 09
"Mr Ramjanally apparently will not condemn and distance himself from Islamic extremism"
You asked the question then answered it yourself. You have not spoken to him, so how can you put words into his mouth? It is just a smear by a bigot.
If you had said something like "I completely condemn the violent harassment of Mr Ramjanally and his family, but it may be a good idea to demonstrate that his group has nothing to do with extremist ideology to reassure people", then fair enough. But you didn't say that. You accused him of failing to distance himself from extremism, despite the fact that he probably hasn't been given an opportunity to give a public answer. Now you realise how bigoted you look, you are trying to wriggle out of it. Absolutely pathetic.
9inch, Chigwell says...
12:21am Thu 9 Jul 09
danbrett, Loughton says...
8:49am Thu 9 Jul 09
Do you think the best place to make that statement is a comments section in a newspaper? Do you think anything but a small percentage of the local population will go online to read it? As I said, let the man speak for himself instead of putting words in his mouth. He is bringing together the faith community, the police, the press and some local councillors to talk about these issues. It seems like a better forum than this one.
danbrett, Loughton says...
8:56am Thu 9 Jul 09
Do you think the best place to make that statement is a comments section in a newspaper? Do you think anything but a small percentage of the local population will go online to read it? As I said, let the man speak for himself instead of putting words in his mouth. He is bringing together the faith community, the police, the press and councillors to talk about these issues. It seems like a better forum than this.
danbrett, Loughton says...
10:44am Thu 9 Jul 09
JackSpur, South Woodford says...
3:36pm Thu 9 Jul 09
9inch, Chigwell says...
5:43pm Thu 9 Jul 09
Noor Ramjanally outside Murray Hall
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Katie Rolt, Theydon Bois says...
2:18pm Fri 3 Jul 09
The group involved have obviously tried to make out as if the hall is solely theirs by calling themselves ‘Loughton Islamic Community Centre’. A more appropriate name for the group would be Loughton Islamic Community Group.
Lastly, weren’t the group aware that the hall is in an election ward where the BNP sit? I wonder if there is some sort of agenda behind their choice of venue.