Former cinema & bingo hall sold to church group

East London and West Essex Guardian Series: Katy Andrews by the former Savoy cinema, which has been sold to a Christian group. Katy Andrews by the former Savoy cinema, which has been sold to a Christian group.

A CHRISTIAN group has bought an historic former cinema and bingo hall with the intention of converting it into a church.

The Potter's House Christian Fellowship has taken over the historic 'Savoy' building in Lea Bridge Road, Leyton, at the junction with Markhouse Road.

The venue closed as a branch of Gala Bingo on Saturday (November 17).

The group has applied for planning permission to Waltham Forest Council to change the use of the site to a place of worship.

Potter's House, which has been described as an evangelical group, already has a church in Folkestone Road, Walthamstow, which is listed as its main UK address.

A statement on its website says it is a member of the ‘Christian Fellowship Churches’, which was started in the early ’70s by a pastor in Arizona.

It states: "Our desire and aim is to see men and women fulfil God’s calling for their lives in the various ministries that are available for Christian believers according to God’s word and personal calling".

Lea Bridge Road resident and local heritage campaigner Katy Andrews said she was concerned attempts to convert the site could mirror the saga of the former EMD cinema in Hoe Street, Walthamstow.

That building was bought by Christian group the Universal Church of the Kingdom of God (UCKG) in 2002 but has been derelict ever since due to various failed attempts by the group to get permission to convert it into a place of worship.

Ms Andrews, who joined the bingo club when she discovered the building was about to be sold, said: "It's a beautiful and historic building so it would be a real shame if it was left empty.

"The building has a capacity of over 1,000 and residents are up in arms partly over worries about parking but also about the loss of yet another entertainment place in the local area.

"It was a very popular place for older women in the area and operated almost like a lunch club for many of them."

A spokeswoman for Gala Bingo said the sale had been made for "commercial" reasons.

She added: "We have been considering the welfare of our staff and customers every step of the way and are currently in consultation with the club’s 19 employees,  where possible we will be looking to find them alternative employment opportunities within the Group. 

"We also recognise the important role the club plays in the community, and will continue to offer our customers an enjoyable bingo experience at our nearby clubs in Stratford and East Ham."

The art deco building opened in 1928 as a purpose built cinema with a capacity of 1,795 and was the first in the borough to show 'talkies' with sound.

The Guardian has approached Potter's House for a comment.

 

Comments (51)

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3:20pm Tue 20 Nov 12

Trevor 2 says...

I wonder if this gang of religious nutters WILL let the 'Savoy' go to rack and ruin like the EMD!
I wonder if this gang of religious nutters WILL let the 'Savoy' go to rack and ruin like the EMD! Trevor 2
  • Score: 1

3:40pm Tue 20 Nov 12

Sam Hain says...

However historic, I doubt this former cinema is Grade II* listed like the Granada/EMD. Still, it could set an unfortunate precedent just ahead of the Granada/EMD public inquiry (mark 2). And still the former Dominion on Buxton Road remains 'empty' (ie squatted) in the heart of Walthamstow. Oh for vision, oh for decision!
However historic, I doubt this former cinema is Grade II* listed like the Granada/EMD. Still, it could set an unfortunate precedent just ahead of the Granada/EMD public inquiry (mark 2). And still the former Dominion on Buxton Road remains 'empty' (ie squatted) in the heart of Walthamstow. Oh for vision, oh for decision! Sam Hain
  • Score: 0

5:23pm Tue 20 Nov 12

Walthamster says...

Oh not again! Wasn't the loss of the EMD enough? Do these 'religious group ever bring anything good to the towns they shove themselves into?
Oh not again! Wasn't the loss of the EMD enough? Do these 'religious group ever bring anything good to the towns they shove themselves into? Walthamster
  • Score: 0

7:48pm Tue 20 Nov 12

Isaythat says...

I am less concerned with the building, but more about the brainwashing that goes on within them by this cult. I would prefer not to see this particular religion(I use the word loosely) anywhere near me.
I am less concerned with the building, but more about the brainwashing that goes on within them by this cult. I would prefer not to see this particular religion(I use the word loosely) anywhere near me. Isaythat
  • Score: 0

12:08am Wed 21 Nov 12

Trevor 2 says...

Walthamster wrote:
Oh not again! Wasn't the loss of the EMD enough? Do these 'religious group ever bring anything good to the towns they shove themselves into?
In a NO!
[quote][p][bold]Walthamster[/bold] wrote: Oh not again! Wasn't the loss of the EMD enough? Do these 'religious group ever bring anything good to the towns they shove themselves into?[/p][/quote]In a NO! Trevor 2
  • Score: 0

12:12am Wed 21 Nov 12

Trevor 2 says...

Isaythat wrote:
I am less concerned with the building, but more about the brainwashing that goes on within them by this cult. I would prefer not to see this particular religion(I use the word loosely) anywhere near me.
Seeing that they affiliate themselves to dubious American offshoot religious groups I don't blame you for being wary!
[quote][p][bold]Isaythat[/bold] wrote: I am less concerned with the building, but more about the brainwashing that goes on within them by this cult. I would prefer not to see this particular religion(I use the word loosely) anywhere near me.[/p][/quote]Seeing that they affiliate themselves to dubious American offshoot religious groups I don't blame you for being wary! Trevor 2
  • Score: 0

7:17am Wed 21 Nov 12

E-ten trifles says...

This is an american TV program about the potters house church group
http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=HpAYtFVGi
Hw
This is an american TV program about the potters house church group http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=HpAYtFVGi Hw E-ten trifles
  • Score: 0

7:22am Wed 21 Nov 12

E-ten trifles says...

I think Bingo provided more of a service to the community
I think Bingo provided more of a service to the community E-ten trifles
  • Score: 0

9:57am Wed 21 Nov 12

Dan Hall says...

The reason the EMD has gone to rack and ruin is that LBWF will not grant planning permission for the building to be converted into a church, and just like the EMD I am guessing that the Gala bingo hall was not making money. The bingo hall is not a beautiful building it has a lot of empty units under the main bingo hall and in my opinion is an eye sore. I think people just need to concern themselves with more important matters in this vorough and in the world.
The reason the EMD has gone to rack and ruin is that LBWF will not grant planning permission for the building to be converted into a church, and just like the EMD I am guessing that the Gala bingo hall was not making money. The bingo hall is not a beautiful building it has a lot of empty units under the main bingo hall and in my opinion is an eye sore. I think people just need to concern themselves with more important matters in this vorough and in the world. Dan Hall
  • Score: 0

10:03am Wed 21 Nov 12

myopinioncounts says...

No doubt the EMD went to rack and ruin during the 'Rave' and they were allowed to walk away without being arrested.
No doubt the EMD went to rack and ruin during the 'Rave' and they were allowed to walk away without being arrested. myopinioncounts
  • Score: 0

10:18am Wed 21 Nov 12

Sam Hain says...

Dan Hall wrote:
The reason the EMD has gone to rack and ruin is that LBWF will not grant planning permission for the building to be converted into a church, and just like the EMD I am guessing that the Gala bingo hall was not making money. The bingo hall is not a beautiful building it has a lot of empty units under the main bingo hall and in my opinion is an eye sore. I think people just need to concern themselves with more important matters in this vorough and in the world.
Not quite fair, Dan. I think the Council was right to stand firm against change of use in this particular building and location. Where it incontrovertibly went wrong was not to compulsorily purchase it at that time (something which I gather, almost ten years later, is back on the cards again). In relation to the Savoy, I'd rather see it demolished for affordable housing than see it fall into the hands of this bunch of evangelical nutters whose only mission seems to be to relieve poor folk of their widow's mite. In that regard E-ten trifles is probably right that bingo was better for the community.
[quote][p][bold]Dan Hall[/bold] wrote: The reason the EMD has gone to rack and ruin is that LBWF will not grant planning permission for the building to be converted into a church, and just like the EMD I am guessing that the Gala bingo hall was not making money. The bingo hall is not a beautiful building it has a lot of empty units under the main bingo hall and in my opinion is an eye sore. I think people just need to concern themselves with more important matters in this vorough and in the world.[/p][/quote]Not quite fair, Dan. I think the Council was right to stand firm against change of use in this particular building and location. Where it incontrovertibly went wrong was not to compulsorily purchase it at that time (something which I gather, almost ten years later, is back on the cards again). In relation to the Savoy, I'd rather see it demolished for affordable housing than see it fall into the hands of this bunch of evangelical nutters whose only mission seems to be to relieve poor folk of their widow's mite. In that regard E-ten trifles is probably right that bingo was better for the community. Sam Hain
  • Score: 0

10:22am Wed 21 Nov 12

Eleanor, Walthamstow says...

We live near their church on Folkestone Road. The congregation may love God but do not appear to adhere to the Christian principle 'love thy neighbour'
We live near their church on Folkestone Road. The congregation may love God but do not appear to adhere to the Christian principle 'love thy neighbour' Eleanor, Walthamstow
  • Score: 0

10:27am Wed 21 Nov 12

Walthamster says...

Sam is right. The EMD was bought in 2002 by a religious cult, the UCKG, that thought it could force the council to allow change of use. The UCKG has let it decay since then, purely out of spite.

Look anywhere in London and see if these cults bring any benefit to the areas they set up in. They make a heap of money themselves, but I don't see any improvement in the surrounding area - quite the opposite.
Sam is right. The EMD was bought in 2002 by a religious cult, the UCKG, that thought it could force the council to allow change of use. The UCKG has let it decay since then, purely out of spite. Look anywhere in London and see if these cults bring any benefit to the areas they set up in. They make a heap of money themselves, but I don't see any improvement in the surrounding area - quite the opposite. Walthamster
  • Score: 1

10:49am Wed 21 Nov 12

HottRedMan says...

I did not even realise the place had closed. Prior to the bingo, I remember it being derelict for some years.
Katy Andrews seems to have sour grapes over the matter. Maybe it closed as it was not making money. Residents dont have nothing to worry about, hardly anyone could park around there anyway, probably the reason why the Bingo hall closed down.

See a load of hypocritical bull spewed out here by the usual misfits.
I did not even realise the place had closed. Prior to the bingo, I remember it being derelict for some years. Katy Andrews seems to have sour grapes over the matter. Maybe it closed as it was not making money. Residents dont have nothing to worry about, hardly anyone could park around there anyway, probably the reason why the Bingo hall closed down. See a load of hypocritical bull spewed out here by the usual misfits. HottRedMan
  • Score: 0

11:56am Wed 21 Nov 12

mdj says...

I seem to recall that the Potter's Field church have had a lot of criticism over the years for holding noisy gatherings in a built-up residential area, so perhaps a move to this large building, served by many bus routes, will alleviate those problems.
I'm no fan at all of this kind of evangelism, but it's a free country.
I seem to recall that the Potter's Field church have had a lot of criticism over the years for holding noisy gatherings in a built-up residential area, so perhaps a move to this large building, served by many bus routes, will alleviate those problems. I'm no fan at all of this kind of evangelism, but it's a free country. mdj
  • Score: 0

12:36pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Dan Hall says...

Sam Hain wrote:
Dan Hall wrote: The reason the EMD has gone to rack and ruin is that LBWF will not grant planning permission for the building to be converted into a church, and just like the EMD I am guessing that the Gala bingo hall was not making money. The bingo hall is not a beautiful building it has a lot of empty units under the main bingo hall and in my opinion is an eye sore. I think people just need to concern themselves with more important matters in this vorough and in the world.
Not quite fair, Dan. I think the Council was right to stand firm against change of use in this particular building and location. Where it incontrovertibly went wrong was not to compulsorily purchase it at that time (something which I gather, almost ten years later, is back on the cards again). In relation to the Savoy, I'd rather see it demolished for affordable housing than see it fall into the hands of this bunch of evangelical nutters whose only mission seems to be to relieve poor folk of their widow's mite. In that regard E-ten trifles is probably right that bingo was better for the community.
The old cinema/bingo hall on Hoe Street by the bakers arms was closed for years and has been converted into a church, so what is the difference between this and the old Granada cinema? The council have been trying to redevelop the corner plot at the top of the high street for years and it has also been with a view to include a new cinema, so what would you do with the old cinema building? A new cinema has opened on Mare Street in Hackney and in Westfield Stratford so who is going to come to a small cinema in Walthamstow, it pains me to say it being a life long resident of E17 but the reason it colsed is because nobody went
[quote][p][bold]Sam Hain[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Hall[/bold] wrote: The reason the EMD has gone to rack and ruin is that LBWF will not grant planning permission for the building to be converted into a church, and just like the EMD I am guessing that the Gala bingo hall was not making money. The bingo hall is not a beautiful building it has a lot of empty units under the main bingo hall and in my opinion is an eye sore. I think people just need to concern themselves with more important matters in this vorough and in the world.[/p][/quote]Not quite fair, Dan. I think the Council was right to stand firm against change of use in this particular building and location. Where it incontrovertibly went wrong was not to compulsorily purchase it at that time (something which I gather, almost ten years later, is back on the cards again). In relation to the Savoy, I'd rather see it demolished for affordable housing than see it fall into the hands of this bunch of evangelical nutters whose only mission seems to be to relieve poor folk of their widow's mite. In that regard E-ten trifles is probably right that bingo was better for the community.[/p][/quote]The old cinema/bingo hall on Hoe Street by the bakers arms was closed for years and has been converted into a church, so what is the difference between this and the old Granada cinema? The council have been trying to redevelop the corner plot at the top of the high street for years and it has also been with a view to include a new cinema, so what would you do with the old cinema building? A new cinema has opened on Mare Street in Hackney and in Westfield Stratford so who is going to come to a small cinema in Walthamstow, it pains me to say it being a life long resident of E17 but the reason it colsed is because nobody went Dan Hall
  • Score: 0

12:36pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Dan Hall says...

Sam Hain wrote:
Dan Hall wrote: The reason the EMD has gone to rack and ruin is that LBWF will not grant planning permission for the building to be converted into a church, and just like the EMD I am guessing that the Gala bingo hall was not making money. The bingo hall is not a beautiful building it has a lot of empty units under the main bingo hall and in my opinion is an eye sore. I think people just need to concern themselves with more important matters in this vorough and in the world.
Not quite fair, Dan. I think the Council was right to stand firm against change of use in this particular building and location. Where it incontrovertibly went wrong was not to compulsorily purchase it at that time (something which I gather, almost ten years later, is back on the cards again). In relation to the Savoy, I'd rather see it demolished for affordable housing than see it fall into the hands of this bunch of evangelical nutters whose only mission seems to be to relieve poor folk of their widow's mite. In that regard E-ten trifles is probably right that bingo was better for the community.
The old cinema/bingo hall on Hoe Street by the bakers arms was closed for years and has been converted into a church, so what is the difference between this and the old Granada cinema? The council have been trying to redevelop the corner plot at the top of the high street for years and it has also been with a view to include a new cinema, so what would you do with the old cinema building? A new cinema has opened on Mare Street in Hackney and in Westfield Stratford so who is going to come to a small cinema in Walthamstow, it pains me to say it being a life long resident of E17 but the reason it closed is because nobody went
[quote][p][bold]Sam Hain[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Hall[/bold] wrote: The reason the EMD has gone to rack and ruin is that LBWF will not grant planning permission for the building to be converted into a church, and just like the EMD I am guessing that the Gala bingo hall was not making money. The bingo hall is not a beautiful building it has a lot of empty units under the main bingo hall and in my opinion is an eye sore. I think people just need to concern themselves with more important matters in this vorough and in the world.[/p][/quote]Not quite fair, Dan. I think the Council was right to stand firm against change of use in this particular building and location. Where it incontrovertibly went wrong was not to compulsorily purchase it at that time (something which I gather, almost ten years later, is back on the cards again). In relation to the Savoy, I'd rather see it demolished for affordable housing than see it fall into the hands of this bunch of evangelical nutters whose only mission seems to be to relieve poor folk of their widow's mite. In that regard E-ten trifles is probably right that bingo was better for the community.[/p][/quote]The old cinema/bingo hall on Hoe Street by the bakers arms was closed for years and has been converted into a church, so what is the difference between this and the old Granada cinema? The council have been trying to redevelop the corner plot at the top of the high street for years and it has also been with a view to include a new cinema, so what would you do with the old cinema building? A new cinema has opened on Mare Street in Hackney and in Westfield Stratford so who is going to come to a small cinema in Walthamstow, it pains me to say it being a life long resident of E17 but the reason it closed is because nobody went Dan Hall
  • Score: 0

12:36pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Dan Hall says...

Sam Hain wrote:
Dan Hall wrote: The reason the EMD has gone to rack and ruin is that LBWF will not grant planning permission for the building to be converted into a church, and just like the EMD I am guessing that the Gala bingo hall was not making money. The bingo hall is not a beautiful building it has a lot of empty units under the main bingo hall and in my opinion is an eye sore. I think people just need to concern themselves with more important matters in this vorough and in the world.
Not quite fair, Dan. I think the Council was right to stand firm against change of use in this particular building and location. Where it incontrovertibly went wrong was not to compulsorily purchase it at that time (something which I gather, almost ten years later, is back on the cards again). In relation to the Savoy, I'd rather see it demolished for affordable housing than see it fall into the hands of this bunch of evangelical nutters whose only mission seems to be to relieve poor folk of their widow's mite. In that regard E-ten trifles is probably right that bingo was better for the community.
The old cinema/bingo hall on Hoe Street by the bakers arms was closed for years and has been converted into a church, so what is the difference between this and the old Granada cinema? The council have been trying to redevelop the corner plot at the top of the high street for years and it has also been with a view to include a new cinema, so what would you do with the old cinema building? A new cinema has opened on Mare Street in Hackney and in Westfield Stratford so who is going to come to a small cinema in Walthamstow, it pains me to say it being a life long resident of E17 but the reason it closed is because nobody went
[quote][p][bold]Sam Hain[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Hall[/bold] wrote: The reason the EMD has gone to rack and ruin is that LBWF will not grant planning permission for the building to be converted into a church, and just like the EMD I am guessing that the Gala bingo hall was not making money. The bingo hall is not a beautiful building it has a lot of empty units under the main bingo hall and in my opinion is an eye sore. I think people just need to concern themselves with more important matters in this vorough and in the world.[/p][/quote]Not quite fair, Dan. I think the Council was right to stand firm against change of use in this particular building and location. Where it incontrovertibly went wrong was not to compulsorily purchase it at that time (something which I gather, almost ten years later, is back on the cards again). In relation to the Savoy, I'd rather see it demolished for affordable housing than see it fall into the hands of this bunch of evangelical nutters whose only mission seems to be to relieve poor folk of their widow's mite. In that regard E-ten trifles is probably right that bingo was better for the community.[/p][/quote]The old cinema/bingo hall on Hoe Street by the bakers arms was closed for years and has been converted into a church, so what is the difference between this and the old Granada cinema? The council have been trying to redevelop the corner plot at the top of the high street for years and it has also been with a view to include a new cinema, so what would you do with the old cinema building? A new cinema has opened on Mare Street in Hackney and in Westfield Stratford so who is going to come to a small cinema in Walthamstow, it pains me to say it being a life long resident of E17 but the reason it closed is because nobody went Dan Hall
  • Score: 0

12:55pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Bernard 87 says...

Here's the thing....Waltham Forest is in a massive state of decline and has been for the past two decades. Church groups such as this one and UCKG only set up in places where they think they are likely to get planning permission. They also choose places which are generally run down, neglected with a fluid population as this generally means less 'nimbys' moaning about things like car parking or noise pollution etc...Waltham Forest fits the bill perfectly. I'm yet to come across these types of applications in Woodford, Loughton, Epping etc...places all nearby.

Walthamstow and Leyton will always suffer with these types of plans as no business with an ounce of common sense is going to look at such places and think its worth investing in unless the council change tact and show that they honestly want to improve the area.

On the other hand having such a large building sitting empty doesnt do anything for the area either, so Sam may have a point when he says knock it down and build houses....as long as they are few (by that I mean no more than that site can realistically hold)good quality family sized homes rather than an ugly block of flats about 20 storeys high.
Here's the thing....Waltham Forest is in a massive state of decline and has been for the past two decades. Church groups such as this one and UCKG only set up in places where they think they are likely to get planning permission. They also choose places which are generally run down, neglected with a fluid population as this generally means less 'nimbys' moaning about things like car parking or noise pollution etc...Waltham Forest fits the bill perfectly. I'm yet to come across these types of applications in Woodford, Loughton, Epping etc...places all nearby. Walthamstow and Leyton will always suffer with these types of plans as no business with an ounce of common sense is going to look at such places and think its worth investing in unless the council change tact and show that they honestly want to improve the area. On the other hand having such a large building sitting empty doesnt do anything for the area either, so Sam may have a point when he says knock it down and build houses....as long as they are few (by that I mean no more than that site can realistically hold)good quality family sized homes rather than an ugly block of flats about 20 storeys high. Bernard 87
  • Score: 0

5:02pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Sam Hain says...

Thanks, Bernard 87, for some very good points. I hadn't considered the aspect of these churches targetting areas like Walthamstow and Layton but, of course, you're right. From their perspective it makes perfect sense. Not only can they acquire large properties relatively cheaply (although UCKG paid hugely over the odds for the EMD/Granada - although with thier dubious Brazilian backing they could afford to) but they can also target poor and rootless people who turn to these places for comfort and get bled of what little money they have. Also, they sey up a vicious circle or deprivation and poverty, which enables them to buy more, cheap property and exploit more poor, disadvantaged people. From their perspective, result! And, of course, while this situation obtains the sort of 'nimbys' who would object are kept at bay. There is, however, one further and possibly more damaging factor, and that is the historic lack of vision and determination from the Council, all that has changed, and I would cite the improvements to High Road Leyton now being rolled out in Lea Bridge Road, Wathamstow Central and Chingford Mount. Apropos, the Lea Bridge scheme not only include the Bakers Arms junction but also the Markhouse Road junction where the Savoy is located. I hope, therefore, that the Council will take a robust and proactive stance on this potential church development as it is unlikely to regenerate the are for the reasons Bernard 87 sets out . If anyone were in any doubt just look at the Arcade Site in Walthamstow and the way the UCKG has stymied sensible regeneration there. The cinema Dan Hall mentions is a relatively small one but has created some sever parking issues and was also, as I recall, embroiled in allegations of financial mismanagement. This may be a free country, mdj, but not free, I hope, to gull and rob the vulnerable.
Thanks, Bernard 87, for some very good points. I hadn't considered the aspect of these churches targetting areas like Walthamstow and Layton but, of course, you're right. From their perspective it makes perfect sense. Not only can they acquire large properties relatively cheaply (although UCKG paid hugely over the odds for the EMD/Granada - although with thier dubious Brazilian backing they could afford to) but they can also target poor and rootless people who turn to these places for comfort and get bled of what little money they have. Also, they sey up a vicious circle or deprivation and poverty, which enables them to buy more, cheap property and exploit more poor, disadvantaged people. From their perspective, result! And, of course, while this situation obtains the sort of 'nimbys' who would object are kept at bay. There is, however, one further and possibly more damaging factor, and that is the historic lack of vision and determination from the Council, all that has changed, and I would cite the improvements to High Road Leyton now being rolled out in Lea Bridge Road, Wathamstow Central and Chingford Mount. Apropos, the Lea Bridge scheme not only include the Bakers Arms junction but also the Markhouse Road junction where the Savoy is located. I hope, therefore, that the Council will take a robust and proactive stance on this potential church development as it is unlikely to regenerate the are for the reasons Bernard 87 sets out . If anyone were in any doubt just look at the Arcade Site in Walthamstow and the way the UCKG has stymied sensible regeneration there. The cinema Dan Hall mentions is a relatively small one but has created some sever parking issues and was also, as I recall, embroiled in allegations of financial mismanagement. This may be a free country, mdj, but not free, I hope, to gull and rob the vulnerable. Sam Hain
  • Score: 0

5:15pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Walthamster says...

If the council hopes to regenerate the Markhouse/Lea Bridge Rd area, the last thing it needs is another of these noisy and intrusive cults setting up in the most prominent spot.
If the council hopes to regenerate the Markhouse/Lea Bridge Rd area, the last thing it needs is another of these noisy and intrusive cults setting up in the most prominent spot. Walthamster
  • Score: 0

5:22pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Sam Hain says...

Quite so, Walthamster. Have you ever been through the Argall industrial estate on a Sunday. Loads of 'pop-up' evangelical churches which I'm sure don't comply with planning rules, to say nothing of safeguarding of the young and vulnerable! Multi-agency swoop by planning dept and social services I suggest.
Quite so, Walthamster. Have you ever been through the Argall industrial estate on a Sunday. Loads of 'pop-up' evangelical churches which I'm sure don't comply with planning rules, to say nothing of safeguarding of the young and vulnerable! Multi-agency swoop by planning dept and social services I suggest. Sam Hain
  • Score: 0

9:25pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Sam Hain says...

PS: Anyone wanting to know more about Kingsland International Christian Centre (KICC) and its pastor, Matthew Ashimolowo, should Google the details. I should warn they make very disturbing reading.
PS: Anyone wanting to know more about Kingsland International Christian Centre (KICC) and its pastor, Matthew Ashimolowo, should Google the details. I should warn they make very disturbing reading. Sam Hain
  • Score: 0

10:14pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Cornbeefur says...

Like the Stow and Granada, if anyone actually attended this venue mid-week, they would have found it almost empty with a Jackpot (based on attendance) averaging two quid (yes £2).

They threw in the towel.
Like the Stow and Granada, if anyone actually attended this venue mid-week, they would have found it almost empty with a Jackpot (based on attendance) averaging two quid (yes £2). They threw in the towel. Cornbeefur
  • Score: 0

10:58pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Walthamster says...

Sam Hain wrote:
PS: Anyone wanting to know more about Kingsland International Christian Centre (KICC) and its pastor, Matthew Ashimolowo, should Google the details. I should warn they make very disturbing reading.
Blimey. KICC (that's Kingsway, by the way, not Kingsland) is a few minutes' walk away from the planned Potter's House, in Hoe Street.

I found a 2009 story in the (national) Guardian: "The Kingsway International Christian Centre, in Walthamstow, has filed company accounts which reveal it made a £4.9m profit over the last 18 months. It also has assets of £22.9m - more than three times the amount held by the foundation which maintains St Paul's Cathedral."

So KICC is right up there with the UCKG in the money-grabbing stakes.

How many of these 'churches' can an area support? or more relevantly, how many of them can an area that's trying to regenerate survive?
[quote][p][bold]Sam Hain[/bold] wrote: PS: Anyone wanting to know more about Kingsland International Christian Centre (KICC) and its pastor, Matthew Ashimolowo, should Google the details. I should warn they make very disturbing reading.[/p][/quote]Blimey. KICC (that's Kingsway, by the way, not Kingsland) is a few minutes' walk away from the planned Potter's House, in Hoe Street. I found a 2009 story in the (national) Guardian: "The Kingsway International Christian Centre, in Walthamstow, has filed company accounts which reveal it made a £4.9m profit over the last 18 months. It also has assets of £22.9m - more than three times the amount held by the foundation which maintains St Paul's Cathedral." So KICC is right up there with the UCKG in the money-grabbing stakes. How many of these 'churches' can an area support? or more relevantly, how many of them can an area that's trying to regenerate survive? Walthamster
  • Score: 0

12:48am Thu 22 Nov 12

mdj says...

' Have you ever been through the Argall industrial estate on a Sunday..'

It's easy to check whether these churches have PP, rather than making innuendoes. The only one I know of directly makes over much of its space to a day shelter for the homeless, and does good work.Surely a church would be a good complementary activity in an industrial estate otherwise deserted on a Sunday, if people don't like the noise of singing near their homes?
If Sam is worried about risks to the young, let him Google 'Labour 25.' before casting stones.
' Have you ever been through the Argall industrial estate on a Sunday..' It's easy to check whether these churches have PP, rather than making innuendoes. The only one I know of directly makes over much of its space to a day shelter for the homeless, and does good work.Surely a church would be a good complementary activity in an industrial estate otherwise deserted on a Sunday, if people don't like the noise of singing near their homes? If Sam is worried about risks to the young, let him Google 'Labour 25.' before casting stones. mdj
  • Score: 0

9:17am Thu 22 Nov 12

Bernard 87 says...

"There is, however, one further and possibly more damaging factor, and that is the historic lack of vision and determination from the Council, all that has changed, and I would cite the improvements to High Road Leyton now being rolled out in Lea Bridge Road, Wathamstow Central and Chingford Mount. Apropos, the Lea Bridge scheme not only include the Bakers Arms junction"

Clearly you like to see the good in the council but I'm guessing you are having a laugh with this statement. All of a sudden, after 40 odd years...the council now has a vision!

The improvements in Leyton High Road had naff all to do with the council and was purely the idea of the Olympic developement group. That way it didn't make the areas close to the stadium look so run down. Walthamstow was miles better 20 years ago than today and the council have made zero improvements to Chingford Mount other than removing the loos which proved hugely unpopular.
"There is, however, one further and possibly more damaging factor, and that is the historic lack of vision and determination from the Council, all that has changed, and I would cite the improvements to High Road Leyton now being rolled out in Lea Bridge Road, Wathamstow Central and Chingford Mount. Apropos, the Lea Bridge scheme not only include the Bakers Arms junction" Clearly you like to see the good in the council but I'm guessing you are having a laugh with this statement. All of a sudden, after 40 odd years...the council now has a vision! The improvements in Leyton High Road had naff all to do with the council and was purely the idea of the Olympic developement group. That way it didn't make the areas close to the stadium look so run down. Walthamstow was miles better 20 years ago than today and the council have made zero improvements to Chingford Mount other than removing the loos which proved hugely unpopular. Bernard 87
  • Score: 0

4:27pm Thu 22 Nov 12

Sam Hain says...

I praise you for making some good points, Bernard 87, and you respond by accusing me of making a statement in good faith. Ah well, such is life! I have no reason to believe that the Council is not sincere in its pledge to spend over £9m on upgrading Lea Bridhge Road, Walthamstow Central and Chingford Mount. True, the regeneration of Leyton High Road was prompted by the Olympics. So what? It was a job well done, so well in fact that the Better High Streets Initiative is now being rolled out to other areas. In other comments I have lamented the Council's historic lack of vision but, for goodness sake, can't we give them some credit for learning (however slowly) the error of their ways? On your specific point about loos, I seem to recall that Chingford Mount still has open public loos in the Memorial Park, making it better off that anywhere in Walthamstow. However, the regeneration of Leyton High Road also included some good loos in the library and LMO building and, given the cost of maintaining buildings such as the one you metion was demolished, alternative provision of this kind is probably the only realistic way forward in the current economic climate, which is no fault of this Labour Council or the last Labour Government for that matter. Get the international bankers to build you a new loo if you want one!.
I praise you for making some good points, Bernard 87, and you respond by accusing me of making a statement in good faith. Ah well, such is life! I have no reason to believe that the Council is not sincere in its pledge to spend over £9m on upgrading Lea Bridhge Road, Walthamstow Central and Chingford Mount. True, the regeneration of Leyton High Road was prompted by the Olympics. So what? It was a job well done, so well in fact that the Better High Streets Initiative is now being rolled out to other areas. In other comments I have lamented the Council's historic lack of vision but, for goodness sake, can't we give them some credit for learning (however slowly) the error of their ways? On your specific point about loos, I seem to recall that Chingford Mount still has open public loos in the Memorial Park, making it better off that anywhere in Walthamstow. However, the regeneration of Leyton High Road also included some good loos in the library and LMO building and, given the cost of maintaining buildings such as the one you metion was demolished, alternative provision of this kind is probably the only realistic way forward in the current economic climate, which is no fault of this Labour Council or the last Labour Government for that matter. Get the international bankers to build you a new loo if you want one!. Sam Hain
  • Score: 0

4:29pm Thu 22 Nov 12

Sam Hain says...

PSD: that should, of course, have read 'bad faith'!
PSD: that should, of course, have read 'bad faith'! Sam Hain
  • Score: 0

5:01pm Thu 22 Nov 12

mdj says...

'True, the regeneration of Leyton High Road was prompted by the Olympics. So what? '
Because the Labour-dominated council was quite happy to sit and watch it rot for 25 years, calculating that a decaying area was a safer vote-farm for them, until some big-wigs from the outside world forced them to get out of bed for once and look busy, that's what.
'True, the regeneration of Leyton High Road was prompted by the Olympics. So what? ' Because the Labour-dominated council was quite happy to sit and watch it rot for 25 years, calculating that a decaying area was a safer vote-farm for them, until some big-wigs from the outside world forced them to get out of bed for once and look busy, that's what. mdj
  • Score: 0

5:18pm Thu 22 Nov 12

Sam Hain says...

I say again, mdj, so what? Labour dominated maybe but with quite a strong Lib Dem presence as I recall. An unholy alliance which thank God we've seen the last of. No coincidence, then, that a Labour majority Council has at last managed to get the show on the road. Long may it continue.
I say again, mdj, so what? Labour dominated maybe but with quite a strong Lib Dem presence as I recall. An unholy alliance which thank God we've seen the last of. No coincidence, then, that a Labour majority Council has at last managed to get the show on the road. Long may it continue. Sam Hain
  • Score: 0

5:23pm Thu 22 Nov 12

Sam Hain says...

PS: And besides, the rot was the fault of private owners who were finally incentivised by the Olympics and a strong Business Improvement District (BID) team, working in conjunction with the Labour Council, to participate in the Better High Streets Initiative after years of neglect, with a hefty input of public money. Civic pride shouldn'r begin and end with the Council.
PS: And besides, the rot was the fault of private owners who were finally incentivised by the Olympics and a strong Business Improvement District (BID) team, working in conjunction with the Labour Council, to participate in the Better High Streets Initiative after years of neglect, with a hefty input of public money. Civic pride shouldn'r begin and end with the Council. Sam Hain
  • Score: 0

5:45pm Thu 22 Nov 12

mdj says...

' Civic pride shouldn'r begin and end with the Council.'

Well, nobody would suspect it of beginning there, that's for sure. You dodge my main point, which is that Labour feeds on decay.
Do you think that E11 Bid will lose some of its energy now that Mr Gary Ince, of North London Business, has resigned from the board? What do you think may have prompted that? What skills did he provide that will no longer be available?
' Civic pride shouldn'r begin and end with the Council.' Well, nobody would suspect it of beginning there, that's for sure. You dodge my main point, which is that Labour feeds on decay. Do you think that E11 Bid will lose some of its energy now that Mr Gary Ince, of North London Business, has resigned from the board? What do you think may have prompted that? What skills did he provide that will no longer be available? mdj
  • Score: 0

10:06pm Thu 22 Nov 12

Cornbeefur says...

This was an historic building.

Original Tram Shed, I understand?
This was an historic building. Original Tram Shed, I understand? Cornbeefur
  • Score: 0

10:07pm Thu 22 Nov 12

Cornbeefur says...

This was an historic building.

Original Tram Shed, I understand?

At the back of it I meant.
This was an historic building. Original Tram Shed, I understand? At the back of it I meant. Cornbeefur
  • Score: 0

7:51am Fri 23 Nov 12

Isaythat says...

mdj wrote:
'True, the regeneration of Leyton High Road was prompted by the Olympics. So what? '
Because the Labour-dominated council was quite happy to sit and watch it rot for 25 years, calculating that a decaying area was a safer vote-farm for them, until some big-wigs from the outside world forced them to get out of bed for once and look busy, that's what.
This is a good description of the labour party and their tactics. Keep the plebs down seems to be their moto. They have no plans to help the less fortunate move out of the mire, but want praise for giving them a few crumbs! Just look how they allow their loyal voters to live! injecting fear into their minds as to what the opposition will offer them. The reason they finally did get off their backsides and do something, is because a Tory led team heading the Olympics told them to.
[quote][p][bold]mdj[/bold] wrote: 'True, the regeneration of Leyton High Road was prompted by the Olympics. So what? ' Because the Labour-dominated council was quite happy to sit and watch it rot for 25 years, calculating that a decaying area was a safer vote-farm for them, until some big-wigs from the outside world forced them to get out of bed for once and look busy, that's what.[/p][/quote]This is a good description of the labour party and their tactics. Keep the plebs down seems to be their moto. They have no plans to help the less fortunate move out of the mire, but want praise for giving them a few crumbs! Just look how they allow their loyal voters to live! injecting fear into their minds as to what the opposition will offer them. The reason they finally did get off their backsides and do something, is because a Tory led team heading the Olympics told them to. Isaythat
  • Score: 0

10:29am Fri 23 Nov 12

Bernard 87 says...

I do understand where Sam is coming from when he says at least the council are starting to do something about the rot now, but I fear this is shortlived. I'm guessing Sam is not a native to East London or working class (I may well be wring!) as if he were he would not be so full of praise for a party who has allowed the area to become run down and unattractive. A five minute drive from Leytonstone to Wanstead or Walthamstow to Woodford or Loughton shows the difference between a Tory council and a Labour council.

The LDs deserve all they get as they helped prop up a useless Labour council for years.

Civic pride has to be spearheaded by the council. If you create an environment worth being proud of people will slowly start to care a little more about where they live. If you preside over huge decay then people will treat the area as such....while others with historic connections will simply move away.

I don't expect you to admit that Labour politics are rooted in maintaining poverty but you have all the evidence around you to see that it's true.
I do understand where Sam is coming from when he says at least the council are starting to do something about the rot now, but I fear this is shortlived. I'm guessing Sam is not a native to East London or working class (I may well be wring!) as if he were he would not be so full of praise for a party who has allowed the area to become run down and unattractive. A five minute drive from Leytonstone to Wanstead or Walthamstow to Woodford or Loughton shows the difference between a Tory council and a Labour council. The LDs deserve all they get as they helped prop up a useless Labour council for years. Civic pride has to be spearheaded by the council. If you create an environment worth being proud of people will slowly start to care a little more about where they live. If you preside over huge decay then people will treat the area as such....while others with historic connections will simply move away. I don't expect you to admit that Labour politics are rooted in maintaining poverty but you have all the evidence around you to see that it's true. Bernard 87
  • Score: 0

10:56am Fri 23 Nov 12

RichieA70 says...

Bernard 87 wrote:
I do understand where Sam is coming from when he says at least the council are starting to do something about the rot now, but I fear this is shortlived. I'm guessing Sam is not a native to East London or working class (I may well be wring!) as if he were he would not be so full of praise for a party who has allowed the area to become run down and unattractive. A five minute drive from Leytonstone to Wanstead or Walthamstow to Woodford or Loughton shows the difference between a Tory council and a Labour council.

The LDs deserve all they get as they helped prop up a useless Labour council for years.

Civic pride has to be spearheaded by the council. If you create an environment worth being proud of people will slowly start to care a little more about where they live. If you preside over huge decay then people will treat the area as such....while others with historic connections will simply move away.

I don't expect you to admit that Labour politics are rooted in maintaining poverty but you have all the evidence around you to see that it's true.
I'd rather live in Walthamstow or Leytonstone than Wanstead, Woodford or Loughton any day. Lovely they may be, but with sterile, copycat High Roads with the same chains seen in thousands of other places and a general perfect dreariness.

At least Walthamstow & Leytonstone have a bit of oompf and character about them.
[quote][p][bold]Bernard 87[/bold] wrote: I do understand where Sam is coming from when he says at least the council are starting to do something about the rot now, but I fear this is shortlived. I'm guessing Sam is not a native to East London or working class (I may well be wring!) as if he were he would not be so full of praise for a party who has allowed the area to become run down and unattractive. A five minute drive from Leytonstone to Wanstead or Walthamstow to Woodford or Loughton shows the difference between a Tory council and a Labour council. The LDs deserve all they get as they helped prop up a useless Labour council for years. Civic pride has to be spearheaded by the council. If you create an environment worth being proud of people will slowly start to care a little more about where they live. If you preside over huge decay then people will treat the area as such....while others with historic connections will simply move away. I don't expect you to admit that Labour politics are rooted in maintaining poverty but you have all the evidence around you to see that it's true.[/p][/quote]I'd rather live in Walthamstow or Leytonstone than Wanstead, Woodford or Loughton any day. Lovely they may be, but with sterile, copycat High Roads with the same chains seen in thousands of other places and a general perfect dreariness. At least Walthamstow & Leytonstone have a bit of oompf and character about them. RichieA70
  • Score: 0

10:56am Fri 23 Nov 12

RichieA70 says...

Bernard 87 wrote:
I do understand where Sam is coming from when he says at least the council are starting to do something about the rot now, but I fear this is shortlived. I'm guessing Sam is not a native to East London or working class (I may well be wring!) as if he were he would not be so full of praise for a party who has allowed the area to become run down and unattractive. A five minute drive from Leytonstone to Wanstead or Walthamstow to Woodford or Loughton shows the difference between a Tory council and a Labour council.

The LDs deserve all they get as they helped prop up a useless Labour council for years.

Civic pride has to be spearheaded by the council. If you create an environment worth being proud of people will slowly start to care a little more about where they live. If you preside over huge decay then people will treat the area as such....while others with historic connections will simply move away.

I don't expect you to admit that Labour politics are rooted in maintaining poverty but you have all the evidence around you to see that it's true.
I'd rather live in Walthamstow or Leytonstone than Wanstead, Woodford or Loughton any day. Lovely they may be, but with sterile, copycat High Roads with the same chains seen in thousands of other places and a general perfect dreariness.

At least Walthamstow & Leytonstone have a bit of oompf and character about them.
[quote][p][bold]Bernard 87[/bold] wrote: I do understand where Sam is coming from when he says at least the council are starting to do something about the rot now, but I fear this is shortlived. I'm guessing Sam is not a native to East London or working class (I may well be wring!) as if he were he would not be so full of praise for a party who has allowed the area to become run down and unattractive. A five minute drive from Leytonstone to Wanstead or Walthamstow to Woodford or Loughton shows the difference between a Tory council and a Labour council. The LDs deserve all they get as they helped prop up a useless Labour council for years. Civic pride has to be spearheaded by the council. If you create an environment worth being proud of people will slowly start to care a little more about where they live. If you preside over huge decay then people will treat the area as such....while others with historic connections will simply move away. I don't expect you to admit that Labour politics are rooted in maintaining poverty but you have all the evidence around you to see that it's true.[/p][/quote]I'd rather live in Walthamstow or Leytonstone than Wanstead, Woodford or Loughton any day. Lovely they may be, but with sterile, copycat High Roads with the same chains seen in thousands of other places and a general perfect dreariness. At least Walthamstow & Leytonstone have a bit of oompf and character about them. RichieA70
  • Score: 0

11:56am Fri 23 Nov 12

Bernard 87 says...

Considering that Woodford, Wanstead and Loughton have more proper independant shops than Walthamstow and Leytonstone I fail to see how they are more drab and generic than any other High Street. They also have heaps of character that has been well preserved in places...while Waltham Forest has just chosen to bulldoze a massive part of it's history and replace it with an estate...sorry i meant landmark development....that will be around for a couple decades until we knock it down.

That added oompf you are alluding to probably means chicken shops, charity shops, betting shops, letting agents and a million off licences. If so than you're bang on....Wanstead, Woodford and Loughton do not have that 'character' at all.
Considering that Woodford, Wanstead and Loughton have more proper independant shops than Walthamstow and Leytonstone I fail to see how they are more drab and generic than any other High Street. They also have heaps of character that has been well preserved in places...while Waltham Forest has just chosen to bulldoze a massive part of it's history and replace it with an estate...sorry i meant landmark development....that will be around for a couple decades until we knock it down. That added oompf you are alluding to probably means chicken shops, charity shops, betting shops, letting agents and a million off licences. If so than you're bang on....Wanstead, Woodford and Loughton do not have that 'character' at all. Bernard 87
  • Score: 0

12:29pm Fri 23 Nov 12

RichieA70 says...

Bernard 87 wrote:
Considering that Woodford, Wanstead and Loughton have more proper independant shops than Walthamstow and Leytonstone I fail to see how they are more drab and generic than any other High Street. They also have heaps of character that has been well preserved in places...while Waltham Forest has just chosen to bulldoze a massive part of it's history and replace it with an estate...sorry i meant landmark development....that will be around for a couple decades until we knock it down.

That added oompf you are alluding to probably means chicken shops, charity shops, betting shops, letting agents and a million off licences. If so than you're bang on....Wanstead, Woodford and Loughton do not have that 'character' at all.
Yes there are far too many bookies, offies etc and plenty of other crud certainly and the council have let the area down in many ways.

But...the borough has the QE Hunting Lodge, WM Gallery, amazing Granada Cinema, biggest Art Trail in London, popular markets, micro cinema, micro brewery, over 9 historic houses, some great pubs with more coming, a theatre pub with comedy and poetry nights, booming music and arts scene and loads of great eateries beyond the chicken shops.

Basically it's got a great community (not to say Woodford etc hasn't) - particularly diverse and buzzing in the southern end of the borough.

What 'landmark development' are you're referring to?
[quote][p][bold]Bernard 87[/bold] wrote: Considering that Woodford, Wanstead and Loughton have more proper independant shops than Walthamstow and Leytonstone I fail to see how they are more drab and generic than any other High Street. They also have heaps of character that has been well preserved in places...while Waltham Forest has just chosen to bulldoze a massive part of it's history and replace it with an estate...sorry i meant landmark development....that will be around for a couple decades until we knock it down. That added oompf you are alluding to probably means chicken shops, charity shops, betting shops, letting agents and a million off licences. If so than you're bang on....Wanstead, Woodford and Loughton do not have that 'character' at all.[/p][/quote]Yes there are far too many bookies, offies etc and plenty of other crud certainly and the council have let the area down in many ways. But...the borough has the QE Hunting Lodge, WM Gallery, amazing Granada Cinema, biggest Art Trail in London, popular markets, micro cinema, micro brewery, over 9 historic houses, some great pubs with more coming, a theatre pub with comedy and poetry nights, booming music and arts scene and loads of great eateries beyond the chicken shops. Basically it's got a great community (not to say Woodford etc hasn't) - particularly diverse and buzzing in the southern end of the borough. What 'landmark development' are you're referring to? RichieA70
  • Score: 0

7:04pm Fri 23 Nov 12

mdj says...

'Basically it's got a great community ... particularly diverse and buzzing in the southern end of the borough'..

If by the southern end you mean Leytonstone beyond the railway bridge, I trust you're joking, Richie.

The freshly-painted welcome sign to Leytonstone on the bridge half a mile inside the borough consigns a large, deprived area to oblivion: probably a safe Labour zone, so perhaps that's OK
'Basically it's got a great community ... particularly diverse and buzzing in the southern end of the borough'.. If by the southern end you mean Leytonstone beyond the railway bridge, I trust you're joking, Richie. The freshly-painted welcome sign to Leytonstone on the bridge half a mile inside the borough consigns a large, deprived area to oblivion: probably a safe Labour zone, so perhaps that's OK mdj
  • Score: 0

11:14am Mon 26 Nov 12

Walthamster says...

Bernard 87 wrote:
I do understand where Sam is coming from when he says at least the council are starting to do something about the rot now, but I fear this is shortlived. I'm guessing Sam is not a native to East London or working class (I may well be wring!) as if he were he would not be so full of praise for a party who has allowed the area to become run down and unattractive. A five minute drive from Leytonstone to Wanstead or Walthamstow to Woodford or Loughton shows the difference between a Tory council and a Labour council.

The LDs deserve all they get as they helped prop up a useless Labour council for years.

Civic pride has to be spearheaded by the council. If you create an environment worth being proud of people will slowly start to care a little more about where they live. If you preside over huge decay then people will treat the area as such....while others with historic connections will simply move away.

I don't expect you to admit that Labour politics are rooted in maintaining poverty but you have all the evidence around you to see that it's true.
I can't comment on Tory areas as I've never lived in one long enough to judge.

Other than that, I can't disagree with a word Bernard says. And I wish I could.
[quote][p][bold]Bernard 87[/bold] wrote: I do understand where Sam is coming from when he says at least the council are starting to do something about the rot now, but I fear this is shortlived. I'm guessing Sam is not a native to East London or working class (I may well be wring!) as if he were he would not be so full of praise for a party who has allowed the area to become run down and unattractive. A five minute drive from Leytonstone to Wanstead or Walthamstow to Woodford or Loughton shows the difference between a Tory council and a Labour council. The LDs deserve all they get as they helped prop up a useless Labour council for years. Civic pride has to be spearheaded by the council. If you create an environment worth being proud of people will slowly start to care a little more about where they live. If you preside over huge decay then people will treat the area as such....while others with historic connections will simply move away. I don't expect you to admit that Labour politics are rooted in maintaining poverty but you have all the evidence around you to see that it's true.[/p][/quote]I can't comment on Tory areas as I've never lived in one long enough to judge. Other than that, I can't disagree with a word Bernard says. And I wish I could. Walthamster
  • Score: 0

1:48pm Thu 29 Nov 12

Hammer time says...

What really is going on behind this article? This building has been an eyesore for many years. Very few people play Bingo. So Gala sell it to a Community group that will invest money and run activities for Mothers & Toddlers, the elderly, young families etc. If this was a Mosque would there be a lady pictured outside with a newly acquired bingo card? Maybe the real reason is that many people are anti christian in particular and anti religion in general? God save the queen :-)
What really is going on behind this article? This building has been an eyesore for many years. Very few people play Bingo. So Gala sell it to a Community group that will invest money and run activities for Mothers & Toddlers, the elderly, young families etc. If this was a Mosque would there be a lady pictured outside with a newly acquired bingo card? Maybe the real reason is that many people are anti christian in particular and anti religion in general? God save the queen :-) Hammer time
  • Score: 0

3:55pm Thu 29 Nov 12

Walthamster says...

Hammertime, these fundamentalist churches do not have a good reputation. From this week's news, see the ongoing saga of the UCKG, which took over a cinema in a listed building and let it decay,
http://www.guardian-
series.co.uk/news/wf
news/10073539.Compul
sory_purchase_of_for
mer_cinema_set_to_be
_approved__in_princi
ple_/

Or today's story about the IICM pretending to own a piece of public land and threatening anyone who parked there,
http://www.guardian-
series.co.uk/news/wf
news/10075570.Church
_agrees_to_stop_thre
atening_motorists_ov
er_parking/?cmpid=cm
t

These churches aren't run by nice friendly vicars! They're usually bad news for the neighbours.
Hammertime, these fundamentalist churches do not have a good reputation. From this week's news, see the ongoing saga of the UCKG, which took over a cinema in a listed building and let it decay, http://www.guardian- series.co.uk/news/wf news/10073539.Compul sory_purchase_of_for mer_cinema_set_to_be _approved__in_princi ple_/ Or today's story about the IICM pretending to own a piece of public land and threatening anyone who parked there, http://www.guardian- series.co.uk/news/wf news/10075570.Church _agrees_to_stop_thre atening_motorists_ov er_parking/?cmpid=cm t These churches aren't run by nice friendly vicars! They're usually bad news for the neighbours. Walthamster
  • Score: 0

4:03pm Thu 29 Nov 12

Hammer time says...

Are we not in danger of tarring all protestant evangelical groups with the same brush? Also your comment about them not being 'nice friendly vicars' might give the game away? would you be happier if they were Cof E? Why does a commercial transaction between a Bingo hall which promotes gambling and a Church have to be political? I do understand some of the problems regarding the example you cited earlier, but does that apply for all Evangelica groups? We all have to face the fact that we live in a diverse community, which brings with it different forms of worship or even non worship. What about all the community based activities these groups will run? I'm just a bit suspicious about the lady in this article who only joined the Bingo club when she knew it was being bought by a Church, maybe if she had joined earlier the Bingo hall would have been able to stay open?? Peace.
Are we not in danger of tarring all protestant evangelical groups with the same brush? Also your comment about them not being 'nice friendly vicars' might give the game away? would you be happier if they were Cof E? Why does a commercial transaction between a Bingo hall which promotes gambling and a Church have to be political? I do understand some of the problems regarding the example you cited earlier, but does that apply for all Evangelica groups? We all have to face the fact that we live in a diverse community, which brings with it different forms of worship or even non worship. What about all the community based activities these groups will run? I'm just a bit suspicious about the lady in this article who only joined the Bingo club when she knew it was being bought by a Church, maybe if she had joined earlier the Bingo hall would have been able to stay open?? Peace. Hammer time
  • Score: 0

4:08pm Thu 29 Nov 12

Hammer time says...

I might also add having read the article again that some of the comments seem confused. This building apparently seat over 1700 people, yet people complain about parking, the loss of another entertainment place and it being left empty in the same breath??!! If it was such a place of entertainment why was it sold? If you dont want it left empty, provide parking? I think this article smacks of 'duplicity' & 'mischief making'. Peace
I might also add having read the article again that some of the comments seem confused. This building apparently seat over 1700 people, yet people complain about parking, the loss of another entertainment place and it being left empty in the same breath??!! If it was such a place of entertainment why was it sold? If you dont want it left empty, provide parking? I think this article smacks of 'duplicity' & 'mischief making'. Peace Hammer time
  • Score: 0

4:39pm Thu 29 Nov 12

Walthamster says...

All I know about the Potter's House is that a van full of its supporters once forced me off the road and laughed as they went on their way! Not very Christian, I thought. I'm not religious myself, but the few vicars I've met seemed like a kindly bunch, whereas I haven't had any good experiences of evangelical churches.
All I know about the Potter's House is that a van full of its supporters once forced me off the road and laughed as they went on their way! Not very Christian, I thought. I'm not religious myself, but the few vicars I've met seemed like a kindly bunch, whereas I haven't had any good experiences of evangelical churches. Walthamster
  • Score: 0

11:07pm Thu 29 Nov 12

Hammer time says...

Walthamster, I think your last comment gives the game away. You base your views on a driving altercation? How did you know it was their Van? Whilst I do not attend that church, if my memory serves me correctly their vans do not carry advertising? Also if they did, what is they loaned the vehicle to another group etc. I'm just not comfortable with you negative labelling millions of Christians in this country based on narrow, niche, negative, uncorrobarated bias. What about the great community cohesive works groups like these do? We are entitled to our opinions, no matter how much we disagree, but many of these negative comments are not well thought out and / or balanced. Peace.
Walthamster, I think your last comment gives the game away. You base your views on a driving altercation? How did you know it was their Van? Whilst I do not attend that church, if my memory serves me correctly their vans do not carry advertising? Also if they did, what is they loaned the vehicle to another group etc. I'm just not comfortable with you negative labelling millions of Christians in this country based on narrow, niche, negative, uncorrobarated bias. What about the great community cohesive works groups like these do? We are entitled to our opinions, no matter how much we disagree, but many of these negative comments are not well thought out and / or balanced. Peace. Hammer time
  • Score: 0

12:19am Fri 30 Nov 12

Walthamster says...

Oh come on Hammertime, what is the 'great community work' these fundamentalist churches do? Sounds as if you work for one of them - unless you're one of their credulous supporters, in which case you're welcome to give them your cash if you really think that's going to get you to heaven.

The two stories from this week's news tell the real story.
Oh come on Hammertime, what is the 'great community work' these fundamentalist churches do? Sounds as if you work for one of them - unless you're one of their credulous supporters, in which case you're welcome to give them your cash if you really think that's going to get you to heaven. The two stories from this week's news tell the real story. Walthamster
  • Score: 0

2:02am Fri 30 Nov 12

Hammer time says...

Lol, Walthmaster are you serious? Nurseries, Orphanages, rehab, youth clubs, homeless shelters, soup kitchens, esol, disaster relief, Sexual health, marriage counselling, chaplaincy, cell groups, sports days, etc.http://www.phila
nthropyuk.org/resour
ces/uk-charitable-se
ctor-snapshot I dont think you are serious about this topic, i think you are ranting, Peace.
Lol, Walthmaster are you serious? Nurseries, Orphanages, rehab, youth clubs, homeless shelters, soup kitchens, esol, disaster relief, Sexual health, marriage counselling, chaplaincy, cell groups, sports days, etc.http://www.phila nthropyuk.org/resour ces/uk-charitable-se ctor-snapshot I dont think you are serious about this topic, i think you are ranting, Peace. Hammer time
  • Score: 0

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