Customer disgusted after discovering 'lump of fatty meat' in readymeal bought from Leyton Tesco

A photo taken by Mr Penny of the lump. He believes it was a piece of fat but Tesco insisted it was "garlic or ginger".

Dave Penny

First published in Waltham Forest East London and West Essex Guardian Series: Photograph of the Author by , Senior reporter

A MAN who does not eat meat except for seafood was horrified to find a large fatty lump in a Tesco readymeal.

Dave Penny, 51, bought the 'Finest' King Prawn Tikka and Pilau Rice meal at the chain's Bakers Arms branch in Leyton High Road.

But he was repulsed to find a large gooey lump as he began tucking in to the food. Tesco refunded his money and sent the sample away for testing, but then sent him a letter stating it was "garlic or ginger".

But Mr Penny strongly refutes this claim.

He said: "It looked like a piece of raw chicken. At first I thought it was an under-cooked prawn or something but on closer inspection I saw it had veins in it.

"It was slimy and lumpy - it was clearly not a piece of garlic.

"If Tesco had got back to me and simply said yes, we're sorry, these things do sometimes happen, then that would be fair enough.

"But for them to fob me off like this is not acceptable."

Mr Penny, of Manor Road in Leyton, has not eaten meat for around ten years. He said: "I'm not a vegan or anything but it made me violently sick and I feel nauseous even just to think about it.

"I wish now I had retained a piece of the matter for independent analysis. I did take photos, however, which disprove Tesco's findings."

He added: "I was told the investigation is at an end and all evidence has been destroyed.

"I have lost all confidence in the brand.

"The customer service department tells me that their investigation is at an end and it boils down to my word against theirs. I am fuming."

Tesco told Mr Penny in a letter that the chain was "sorry he had cause to complain".

A Tesco spokeswoman said: “Ensuring our food is of the highest quality is very important to us and we take these issues seriously.

"Our supplier has thoroughly investigated and found that the item was vegetable matter."

She added that the company would make "a gesture of goodwill to apologise for any inconvenience caused".

Comments (35)

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12:22pm Fri 23 Nov 12

Dave mp says...

Some analysis when they said it was either garlic or ginger?
Some analysis when they said it was either garlic or ginger? Dave mp
  • Score: 0

12:23pm Fri 23 Nov 12

PsiMonk says...

Disgusted to hear of Mr Penny's unlucky find. But please note, he's not a vegetarian. Vegetarian's don't eat fish. Simple as that.

Lots of people call themselves vegetarian and eat fish - but all that does is confuse everyone (particularly annoying, for actual vegetarians, it tends to confuse catering staff). Pescatarian, perhaps, or non-meat-eater. But not a vegetarian. Any chance of amending the headline pls WF Guardian?
Disgusted to hear of Mr Penny's unlucky find. But please note, he's not a vegetarian. Vegetarian's don't eat fish. Simple as that. Lots of people call themselves vegetarian and eat fish - but all that does is confuse everyone (particularly annoying, for actual vegetarians, it tends to confuse catering staff). Pescatarian, perhaps, or non-meat-eater. But not a vegetarian. Any chance of amending the headline pls WF Guardian? PsiMonk
  • Score: 0

12:38pm Fri 23 Nov 12

Techno3 says...

PsiMonk wrote:
Disgusted to hear of Mr Penny's unlucky find. But please note, he's not a vegetarian. Vegetarian's don't eat fish. Simple as that.

Lots of people call themselves vegetarian and eat fish - but all that does is confuse everyone (particularly annoying, for actual vegetarians, it tends to confuse catering staff). Pescatarian, perhaps, or non-meat-eater. But not a vegetarian. Any chance of amending the headline pls WF Guardian?
I know loads of people who eat fish and seafood who call themselves vegetarian.
[quote][p][bold]PsiMonk[/bold] wrote: Disgusted to hear of Mr Penny's unlucky find. But please note, he's not a vegetarian. Vegetarian's don't eat fish. Simple as that. Lots of people call themselves vegetarian and eat fish - but all that does is confuse everyone (particularly annoying, for actual vegetarians, it tends to confuse catering staff). Pescatarian, perhaps, or non-meat-eater. But not a vegetarian. Any chance of amending the headline pls WF Guardian?[/p][/quote]I know loads of people who eat fish and seafood who call themselves vegetarian. Techno3
  • Score: 0

12:44pm Fri 23 Nov 12

stickmanny says...

Techno3 wrote:
PsiMonk wrote:
Disgusted to hear of Mr Penny's unlucky find. But please note, he's not a vegetarian. Vegetarian's don't eat fish. Simple as that.

Lots of people call themselves vegetarian and eat fish - but all that does is confuse everyone (particularly annoying, for actual vegetarians, it tends to confuse catering staff). Pescatarian, perhaps, or non-meat-eater. But not a vegetarian. Any chance of amending the headline pls WF Guardian?
I know loads of people who eat fish and seafood who call themselves vegetarian.
they are fish & chipocrites
[quote][p][bold]Techno3[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]PsiMonk[/bold] wrote: Disgusted to hear of Mr Penny's unlucky find. But please note, he's not a vegetarian. Vegetarian's don't eat fish. Simple as that. Lots of people call themselves vegetarian and eat fish - but all that does is confuse everyone (particularly annoying, for actual vegetarians, it tends to confuse catering staff). Pescatarian, perhaps, or non-meat-eater. But not a vegetarian. Any chance of amending the headline pls WF Guardian?[/p][/quote]I know loads of people who eat fish and seafood who call themselves vegetarian.[/p][/quote]they are fish & chipocrites stickmanny
  • Score: 0

12:49pm Fri 23 Nov 12

PsiMonk says...

Techno3, that may well be, but it doesn't make them vegetarian - and it's really confusing for everyone.

As an example, my 5 year old was recently fed fish fingers at a local school because she's listed as "vegetarian" (she had to take them back twice before the school dinner ladies accepted her point of view). The schools menu for the borough has twice in the last year also listed stuff with fish in under the "vegetarian" option.

Here's Wikipedia on it (it's pretty much the same definition you find on Vegsoc and other places): "Vegetarianism is the practice of abstaining from consumption of meat (red meat, poultry and seafood). It may also include abstention from by-products of animal slaughter, such as animal-derived rennet and gelatin."

I suggest your friends call themselves pescatarians or, at a push, non-meat-eaters.

I've even seen people who eat chicken call themselves vegetarian. They clearly aren't veggies and neither are people who eat fish - and it not only dilutes the meaning of the term, but really does cause massive confusion for those of us who actually are vegetarian!
Techno3, that may well be, but it doesn't make them vegetarian - and it's really confusing for everyone. As an example, my 5 year old was recently fed fish fingers at a local school because she's listed as "vegetarian" (she had to take them back twice before the school dinner ladies accepted her point of view). The schools menu for the borough has twice in the last year also listed stuff with fish in under the "vegetarian" option. Here's Wikipedia on it (it's pretty much the same definition you find on Vegsoc and other places): "Vegetarianism is the practice of abstaining from consumption of meat (red meat, poultry and seafood). It may also include abstention from by-products of animal slaughter, such as animal-derived rennet and gelatin." I suggest your friends call themselves pescatarians or, at a push, non-meat-eaters. I've even seen people who eat chicken call themselves vegetarian. They clearly aren't veggies and neither are people who eat fish - and it not only dilutes the meaning of the term, but really does cause massive confusion for those of us who actually are vegetarian! PsiMonk
  • Score: 0

12:51pm Fri 23 Nov 12

PsiMonk says...

Stickmanny: "Fish & chipocrites" Love it!
Stickmanny: "Fish & chipocrites" Love it! PsiMonk
  • Score: 0

12:59pm Fri 23 Nov 12

NDevoto says...

They are strict vegetarians,


But only between meals!

-
They are strict vegetarians, But only between meals! - NDevoto
  • Score: 0

1:14pm Fri 23 Nov 12

Techno3 says...

PsiMonk wrote:
Techno3, that may well be, but it doesn't make them vegetarian - and it's really confusing for everyone.

As an example, my 5 year old was recently fed fish fingers at a local school because she's listed as "vegetarian" (she had to take them back twice before the school dinner ladies accepted her point of view). The schools menu for the borough has twice in the last year also listed stuff with fish in under the "vegetarian" option.

Here's Wikipedia on it (it's pretty much the same definition you find on Vegsoc and other places): "Vegetarianism is the practice of abstaining from consumption of meat (red meat, poultry and seafood). It may also include abstention from by-products of animal slaughter, such as animal-derived rennet and gelatin."

I suggest your friends call themselves pescatarians or, at a push, non-meat-eaters.

I've even seen people who eat chicken call themselves vegetarian. They clearly aren't veggies and neither are people who eat fish - and it not only dilutes the meaning of the term, but really does cause massive confusion for those of us who actually are vegetarian!
While you are entitled to your firm opinion, I don't think non-meat eaters and people who don't have an ideological axe to grind either way need worry.

The great thing about the English language is that we don't have 'word police' like the poor old french with their academie francais.

We can still relax, speak English (as it is and not how the ideologues would like us to) and people are free to call themselves vegetarian without fear of repercussions from any confused linguistic authoritarians in our midst who want to make claims to ownership of our common language and force their strictures on others.
[quote][p][bold]PsiMonk[/bold] wrote: Techno3, that may well be, but it doesn't make them vegetarian - and it's really confusing for everyone. As an example, my 5 year old was recently fed fish fingers at a local school because she's listed as "vegetarian" (she had to take them back twice before the school dinner ladies accepted her point of view). The schools menu for the borough has twice in the last year also listed stuff with fish in under the "vegetarian" option. Here's Wikipedia on it (it's pretty much the same definition you find on Vegsoc and other places): "Vegetarianism is the practice of abstaining from consumption of meat (red meat, poultry and seafood). It may also include abstention from by-products of animal slaughter, such as animal-derived rennet and gelatin." I suggest your friends call themselves pescatarians or, at a push, non-meat-eaters. I've even seen people who eat chicken call themselves vegetarian. They clearly aren't veggies and neither are people who eat fish - and it not only dilutes the meaning of the term, but really does cause massive confusion for those of us who actually are vegetarian![/p][/quote]While you are entitled to your firm opinion, I don't think non-meat eaters and people who don't have an ideological axe to grind either way need worry. The great thing about the English language is that we don't have 'word police' like the poor old french with their academie francais. We can still relax, speak English (as it is and not how the ideologues would like us to) and people are free to call themselves vegetarian without fear of repercussions from any confused linguistic authoritarians in our midst who want to make claims to ownership of our common language and force their strictures on others. Techno3
  • Score: 0

1:20pm Fri 23 Nov 12

E17_er says...

Techno3 wrote:
PsiMonk wrote:
Techno3, that may well be, but it doesn't make them vegetarian - and it's really confusing for everyone.

As an example, my 5 year old was recently fed fish fingers at a local school because she's listed as "vegetarian" (she had to take them back twice before the school dinner ladies accepted her point of view). The schools menu for the borough has twice in the last year also listed stuff with fish in under the "vegetarian" option.

Here's Wikipedia on it (it's pretty much the same definition you find on Vegsoc and other places): "Vegetarianism is the practice of abstaining from consumption of meat (red meat, poultry and seafood). It may also include abstention from by-products of animal slaughter, such as animal-derived rennet and gelatin."

I suggest your friends call themselves pescatarians or, at a push, non-meat-eaters.

I've even seen people who eat chicken call themselves vegetarian. They clearly aren't veggies and neither are people who eat fish - and it not only dilutes the meaning of the term, but really does cause massive confusion for those of us who actually are vegetarian!
While you are entitled to your firm opinion, I don't think non-meat eaters and people who don't have an ideological axe to grind either way need worry.

The great thing about the English language is that we don't have 'word police' like the poor old french with their academie francais.

We can still relax, speak English (as it is and not how the ideologues would like us to) and people are free to call themselves vegetarian without fear of repercussions from any confused linguistic authoritarians in our midst who want to make claims to ownership of our common language and force their strictures on others.
Freedom from linguistic authoritarianism - Now with added ability to call fish vegetables. :-)
[quote][p][bold]Techno3[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]PsiMonk[/bold] wrote: Techno3, that may well be, but it doesn't make them vegetarian - and it's really confusing for everyone. As an example, my 5 year old was recently fed fish fingers at a local school because she's listed as "vegetarian" (she had to take them back twice before the school dinner ladies accepted her point of view). The schools menu for the borough has twice in the last year also listed stuff with fish in under the "vegetarian" option. Here's Wikipedia on it (it's pretty much the same definition you find on Vegsoc and other places): "Vegetarianism is the practice of abstaining from consumption of meat (red meat, poultry and seafood). It may also include abstention from by-products of animal slaughter, such as animal-derived rennet and gelatin." I suggest your friends call themselves pescatarians or, at a push, non-meat-eaters. I've even seen people who eat chicken call themselves vegetarian. They clearly aren't veggies and neither are people who eat fish - and it not only dilutes the meaning of the term, but really does cause massive confusion for those of us who actually are vegetarian![/p][/quote]While you are entitled to your firm opinion, I don't think non-meat eaters and people who don't have an ideological axe to grind either way need worry. The great thing about the English language is that we don't have 'word police' like the poor old french with their academie francais. We can still relax, speak English (as it is and not how the ideologues would like us to) and people are free to call themselves vegetarian without fear of repercussions from any confused linguistic authoritarians in our midst who want to make claims to ownership of our common language and force their strictures on others.[/p][/quote]Freedom from linguistic authoritarianism - Now with added ability to call fish vegetables. :-) E17_er
  • Score: 0

1:25pm Fri 23 Nov 12

clawsie says...

you're not a vegetarian if you eat anything with a face or a family. simples.
you're not a vegetarian if you eat anything with a face or a family. simples. clawsie
  • Score: 0

1:26pm Fri 23 Nov 12

PsiMonk says...

Techno3: "I don't think non-meat eaters and people who don't have an ideological axe to grind either way need worry... People are free to call themselves vegetarian without fear of repercussions from any confused linguistic authoritarians in our midst who want to make claims to ownership of our common language and force their strictures on others."

Really? I mean, really?

OK, so, the colour "blue" - that can be labelled as "green" can it? Seriously. You don't have a problem with that? Or if I call left "right"?

Trying to compare a simple attempt to clarify a commonly-held meaning of a word - which is kinda the point of language - to the French system of finding French words as replacement for English words - that's really a stretch. And a fairly silly one at that.

I have given you real-world examples of how exactly misusing the word "vegetarian" results in confusion and problems. Instead, you rather facilely seem to want to call me an ideologue, "word police", an authoritarian and imply that I want to "force" my stricture on you.

I am not about to appear at your door or your friends' and arrest you or them for choosing to say vegetarians eat fish. But that doesn't mean you or they are correct.

Let me repeat - it's not helpful, but very confusing to call people who eat fish vegetarians. That's not me ordering you about or being forceful, simply a calm and polite request to find common linguistic meaning in common words - to use words properly, in other words.

Or should we throw all meaning, grammar, spelling out of the window?
Techno3: "I don't think non-meat eaters and people who don't have an ideological axe to grind either way need worry... People are free to call themselves vegetarian without fear of repercussions from any confused linguistic authoritarians in our midst who want to make claims to ownership of our common language and force their strictures on others." Really? I mean, really? OK, so, the colour "blue" - that can be labelled as "green" can it? Seriously. You don't have a problem with that? Or if I call left "right"? Trying to compare a simple attempt to clarify a commonly-held meaning of a word - which is kinda the point of language - to the French system of finding French words as replacement for English words - that's really a stretch. And a fairly silly one at that. I have given you real-world examples of how exactly misusing the word "vegetarian" results in confusion and problems. Instead, you rather facilely seem to want to call me an ideologue, "word police", an authoritarian and imply that I want to "force" my stricture on you. I am not about to appear at your door or your friends' and arrest you or them for choosing to say vegetarians eat fish. But that doesn't mean you or they are correct. Let me repeat - it's not helpful, but very confusing to call people who eat fish vegetarians. That's not me ordering you about or being forceful, simply a calm and polite request to find common linguistic meaning in common words - to use words properly, in other words. Or should we throw all meaning, grammar, spelling out of the window? PsiMonk
  • Score: 0

1:35pm Fri 23 Nov 12

E17_er says...

I don't know Psi it would make getting my five a day simpler.

*Chalks a pepperami down as a cabbage*
I don't know Psi it would make getting my five a day simpler. *Chalks a pepperami down as a cabbage* E17_er
  • Score: 0

1:36pm Fri 23 Nov 12

Walthamstow noob says...

Techno3 wrote:
PsiMonk wrote:
Disgusted to hear of Mr Penny's unlucky find. But please note, he's not a vegetarian. Vegetarian's don't eat fish. Simple as that.

Lots of people call themselves vegetarian and eat fish - but all that does is confuse everyone (particularly annoying, for actual vegetarians, it tends to confuse catering staff). Pescatarian, perhaps, or non-meat-eater. But not a vegetarian. Any chance of amending the headline pls WF Guardian?
I know loads of people who eat fish and seafood who call themselves vegetarian.
I do this myself. I know that technically I am a Pescatarian, but in over 10 years of being so I have never been met with anything other than blank stares when I have used that term. I just say I am a vegetarian but occasionally eat fish (I also avoid gelatin and rennet etc..). I have also met plenty of 'proper' vegetarians who were also completely oblivious to things like gelatin and would happily eat Haribos etc...

I don't think it causes additional confusion because in my experience most people simply don't care. In my experience, most restaurants barely tolerate veggies and there are usually just a few token items on the menus. I've lost count of the number of times I've had to ask to make sure a 'veggie' dish doesn't come with parmesan all over it. You also have no idea what's going on in the kitchen in terms of keeping things separate. Unless you want to prepare all of your own meals forever it's going to be a minefield and you can only do your best to keep an eye on what you eat.
[quote][p][bold]Techno3[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]PsiMonk[/bold] wrote: Disgusted to hear of Mr Penny's unlucky find. But please note, he's not a vegetarian. Vegetarian's don't eat fish. Simple as that. Lots of people call themselves vegetarian and eat fish - but all that does is confuse everyone (particularly annoying, for actual vegetarians, it tends to confuse catering staff). Pescatarian, perhaps, or non-meat-eater. But not a vegetarian. Any chance of amending the headline pls WF Guardian?[/p][/quote]I know loads of people who eat fish and seafood who call themselves vegetarian.[/p][/quote]I do this myself. I know that technically I am a Pescatarian, but in over 10 years of being so I have never been met with anything other than blank stares when I have used that term. I just say I am a vegetarian but occasionally eat fish (I also avoid gelatin and rennet etc..). I have also met plenty of 'proper' vegetarians who were also completely oblivious to things like gelatin and would happily eat Haribos etc... I don't think it causes additional confusion because in my experience most people simply don't care. In my experience, most restaurants barely tolerate veggies and there are usually just a few token items on the menus. I've lost count of the number of times I've had to ask to make sure a 'veggie' dish doesn't come with parmesan all over it. You also have no idea what's going on in the kitchen in terms of keeping things separate. Unless you want to prepare all of your own meals forever it's going to be a minefield and you can only do your best to keep an eye on what you eat. Walthamstow noob
  • Score: 0

1:41pm Fri 23 Nov 12

Walthamstow noob says...

Oh, and was that really the best photo this guy could provide? A blurry lump of something? If that was chicken I'd be far more worried about that fact that it looks raw.
Oh, and was that really the best photo this guy could provide? A blurry lump of something? If that was chicken I'd be far more worried about that fact that it looks raw. Walthamstow noob
  • Score: 0

1:43pm Fri 23 Nov 12

PsiMonk says...

Walthamstow noob: "I just say I am a vegetarian but occasionally eat fish... I don't think it causes additional confusion because in my experience most people simply don't care."

a) I actually don't have a problem with "I am a vegetarian but occasionally eat fish" because at least you're clear about what you do/don't eat and how that relates to vegetarianism.

b) However I do think people eating fish while saying they're veggie does cause additional confusion - see my above comments for recent local experiences of how well our local authority's food services folks understand the distinction.

The people who plan and serve kids meals *should* know better than to serve a vegetarian fish fingers. Just as you'd expect them to understand what is and isn't Halal or contains nuts etc. on their menu. That they don't is partly down to pescies who call themselves veggies - my kid was told "oh, we'll tick the box that says 'veggie who doesn't eat fish'." My child shouldn't have to clarify that "veggie" doesn't mean fish.
Walthamstow noob: "I just say I am a vegetarian but occasionally eat fish... I don't think it causes additional confusion because in my experience most people simply don't care." a) I actually don't have a problem with "I am a vegetarian but occasionally eat fish" because at least you're clear about what you do/don't eat and how that relates to vegetarianism. b) However I do think people eating fish while saying they're veggie does cause additional confusion - see my above comments for recent local experiences of how well our local authority's food services folks understand the distinction. The people who plan and serve kids meals *should* know better than to serve a vegetarian fish fingers. Just as you'd expect them to understand what is and isn't Halal or contains nuts etc. on their menu. That they don't is partly down to pescies who call themselves veggies - my kid was told "oh, we'll tick the box that says 'veggie who doesn't eat fish'." My child shouldn't have to clarify that "veggie" doesn't mean fish. PsiMonk
  • Score: 0

1:52pm Fri 23 Nov 12

Cornbeefur says...

Whatever, move on, no real harm done. I am sure if he had taken it back at the time he would have been offered a replacement and vouchers.

He should see some of the things that crawl over fish under a microscope.
Whatever, move on, no real harm done. I am sure if he had taken it back at the time he would have been offered a replacement and vouchers. He should see some of the things that crawl over fish under a microscope. Cornbeefur
  • Score: 0

2:04pm Fri 23 Nov 12

Walthamstow noob says...

PsiMonk wrote:
Walthamstow noob: "I just say I am a vegetarian but occasionally eat fish... I don't think it causes additional confusion because in my experience most people simply don't care."

a) I actually don't have a problem with "I am a vegetarian but occasionally eat fish" because at least you're clear about what you do/don't eat and how that relates to vegetarianism.

b) However I do think people eating fish while saying they're veggie does cause additional confusion - see my above comments for recent local experiences of how well our local authority's food services folks understand the distinction.

The people who plan and serve kids meals *should* know better than to serve a vegetarian fish fingers. Just as you'd expect them to understand what is and isn't Halal or contains nuts etc. on their menu. That they don't is partly down to pescies who call themselves veggies - my kid was told "oh, we'll tick the box that says 'veggie who doesn't eat fish'." My child shouldn't have to clarify that "veggie" doesn't mean fish.
"The people who plan and serve kids meals *should* know better than to serve a vegetarian fish fingers. Just as you'd expect them to understand what is and isn't Halal or contains nuts etc. on their menu. That they don't is partly down to pescies who call themselves veggies - my kid was told "oh, we'll tick the box that says 'veggie who doesn't eat fish'." My child shouldn't have to clarify that "veggie" doesn't mean fish."

Absolutely agree with you, but I don't think 'veggies' misusing the term is really contributing to this, IMHO it's general ignorance on the part of those preparing the meals.

May as well share an anecdote while I'm at it. Very early on in my veggie days I went to a Teppanyaki restaurant with people from work. Everything is cooked in front of you, and the chef asked me if, as a vegetarian I minded him mixing ingredients but just not giving me any meat. Being quite young and not wanting to be difficult, I said yes. He then said "aah, then you are not really a vegetarian!". He was just poking fun but inside I was utterly ashamed that I'd caved on a principle so easily. He kept everything separate for me anyway, but since then I've always been assertive about what I will and won't accept as 'veggie' at a restaurant.
[quote][p][bold]PsiMonk[/bold] wrote: Walthamstow noob: "I just say I am a vegetarian but occasionally eat fish... I don't think it causes additional confusion because in my experience most people simply don't care." a) I actually don't have a problem with "I am a vegetarian but occasionally eat fish" because at least you're clear about what you do/don't eat and how that relates to vegetarianism. b) However I do think people eating fish while saying they're veggie does cause additional confusion - see my above comments for recent local experiences of how well our local authority's food services folks understand the distinction. The people who plan and serve kids meals *should* know better than to serve a vegetarian fish fingers. Just as you'd expect them to understand what is and isn't Halal or contains nuts etc. on their menu. That they don't is partly down to pescies who call themselves veggies - my kid was told "oh, we'll tick the box that says 'veggie who doesn't eat fish'." My child shouldn't have to clarify that "veggie" doesn't mean fish.[/p][/quote]"The people who plan and serve kids meals *should* know better than to serve a vegetarian fish fingers. Just as you'd expect them to understand what is and isn't Halal or contains nuts etc. on their menu. That they don't is partly down to pescies who call themselves veggies - my kid was told "oh, we'll tick the box that says 'veggie who doesn't eat fish'." My child shouldn't have to clarify that "veggie" doesn't mean fish." Absolutely agree with you, but I don't think 'veggies' misusing the term is really contributing to this, IMHO it's general ignorance on the part of those preparing the meals. May as well share an anecdote while I'm at it. Very early on in my veggie days I went to a Teppanyaki restaurant with people from work. Everything is cooked in front of you, and the chef asked me if, as a vegetarian I minded him mixing ingredients but just not giving me any meat. Being quite young and not wanting to be difficult, I said yes. He then said "aah, then you are not really a vegetarian!". He was just poking fun but inside I was utterly ashamed that I'd caved on a principle so easily. He kept everything separate for me anyway, but since then I've always been assertive about what I will and won't accept as 'veggie' at a restaurant. Walthamstow noob
  • Score: 0

3:30pm Fri 23 Nov 12

Wizza_b says...

PsiMonk wrote:
Techno3, that may well be, but it doesn't make them vegetarian - and it's really confusing for everyone. As an example, my 5 year old was recently fed fish fingers at a local school because she's listed as "vegetarian" (she had to take them back twice before the school dinner ladies accepted her point of view). The schools menu for the borough has twice in the last year also listed stuff with fish in under the "vegetarian" option. Here's Wikipedia on it (it's pretty much the same definition you find on Vegsoc and other places): "Vegetarianism is the practice of abstaining from consumption of meat (red meat, poultry and seafood). It may also include abstention from by-products of animal slaughter, such as animal-derived rennet and gelatin." I suggest your friends call themselves pescatarians or, at a push, non-meat-eaters. I've even seen people who eat chicken call themselves vegetarian. They clearly aren't veggies and neither are people who eat fish - and it not only dilutes the meaning of the term, but really does cause massive confusion for those of us who actually are vegetarian!
Your 5 year old is a vegetarian? how comes?
[quote][p][bold]PsiMonk[/bold] wrote: Techno3, that may well be, but it doesn't make them vegetarian - and it's really confusing for everyone. As an example, my 5 year old was recently fed fish fingers at a local school because she's listed as "vegetarian" (she had to take them back twice before the school dinner ladies accepted her point of view). The schools menu for the borough has twice in the last year also listed stuff with fish in under the "vegetarian" option. Here's Wikipedia on it (it's pretty much the same definition you find on Vegsoc and other places): "Vegetarianism is the practice of abstaining from consumption of meat (red meat, poultry and seafood). It may also include abstention from by-products of animal slaughter, such as animal-derived rennet and gelatin." I suggest your friends call themselves pescatarians or, at a push, non-meat-eaters. I've even seen people who eat chicken call themselves vegetarian. They clearly aren't veggies and neither are people who eat fish - and it not only dilutes the meaning of the term, but really does cause massive confusion for those of us who actually are vegetarian![/p][/quote]Your 5 year old is a vegetarian? how comes? Wizza_b
  • Score: 0

3:47pm Fri 23 Nov 12

PsiMonk says...

Wizza_b: "Your 5 year old is a vegetarian? how comes?"

Because the whole family are veggies. If our kids expressed a strong and sustained desire to eat meat or fish, they'd be welcome to. So far, both seem very happy as veggies.

Of course, I could just as well ask "how come your kids aren't veggie?" We all make choices about what our kids are or aren't allowed to do... Do veggie kids seem strange to you? Or does vegetarianism in general seem strange to you? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick on your line of questioning?
Wizza_b: "Your 5 year old is a vegetarian? how comes?" Because the whole family are veggies. If our kids expressed a strong and sustained desire to eat meat or fish, they'd be welcome to. So far, both seem very happy as veggies. Of course, I could just as well ask "how come your kids aren't veggie?" We all make choices about what our kids are or aren't allowed to do... Do veggie kids seem strange to you? Or does vegetarianism in general seem strange to you? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick on your line of questioning? PsiMonk
  • Score: 0

4:03pm Fri 23 Nov 12

Wizza_b says...

PsiMonk - just a question. You talk like being a Vegetarian is some kind of left field way of life, it`s no big deal. I was purely just interested. I used to be a Vegetarian myself, about 20 years ago.
I think it`s good actually, I just love meat too much. Vegetables are also wonderful but the best flavours always have meat involved, im my honest opinion. I like the nose to tail way of eating, which is obviously the total opposite of yours.
You have given your child choice, which is the correct thing to do. It`s probable a great way to wait until they are of a higher age so they can properly decide on whether to wish to eat a dead animal or not.
PsiMonk - just a question. You talk like being a Vegetarian is some kind of left field way of life, it`s no big deal. I was purely just interested. I used to be a Vegetarian myself, about 20 years ago. I think it`s good actually, I just love meat too much. Vegetables are also wonderful but the best flavours always have meat involved, im my honest opinion. I like the nose to tail way of eating, which is obviously the total opposite of yours. You have given your child choice, which is the correct thing to do. It`s probable a great way to wait until they are of a higher age so they can properly decide on whether to wish to eat a dead animal or not. Wizza_b
  • Score: 0

4:18pm Fri 23 Nov 12

PsiMonk says...

Wizza_b, sorry if being a bit wary in response initially - some commenters on here put my back up.

Unlike many veggies, I don't happen to believe eating meat is a horrific crime etc. We all make choices about where we are and what we do on a big continuum! (I'd like to be vegan, but man, cheese!) And if you're going to eat meat, I think nose-to-tail is absolutely the way to do it. If an animal is going to die to feed us, might as well use all of it and not waste it.
Wizza_b, sorry if being a bit wary in response initially - some commenters on here put my back up. Unlike many veggies, I don't happen to believe eating meat is a horrific crime etc. We all make choices about where we are and what we do on a big continuum! (I'd like to be vegan, but man, cheese!) And if you're going to eat meat, I think nose-to-tail is absolutely the way to do it. If an animal is going to die to feed us, might as well use all of it and not waste it. PsiMonk
  • Score: 0

4:27pm Fri 23 Nov 12

Wizza_b says...

@ PsiMonk........
Absolutely no problem.

I`m in agreeance re cheese. I`m doomed, I like everything !
@ PsiMonk........ Absolutely no problem. I`m in agreeance re cheese. I`m doomed, I like everything ! Wizza_b
  • Score: 0

4:49pm Fri 23 Nov 12

VillageIdiot69 says...

Mmmmm, cheese as the great Homer Simpson would say.
Mmmmm, cheese as the great Homer Simpson would say. VillageIdiot69
  • Score: 0

5:14pm Fri 23 Nov 12

Techno3 says...

"some commenters on here put my back up"

Are you sure your back was not a tad "up" already?
"some commenters on here put my back up" Are you sure your back was not a tad "up" already? Techno3
  • Score: 0

5:18pm Fri 23 Nov 12

PsiMonk says...

Techno3, strange how I can have a perfectly good-humoured conversation with others on here isn't it? And if you care to look back through the comments, you'll find my initial comment to you was very polite (IMHO), making a simple point. Then you went all "linguistic authoritarians" and it all went a bit Pete Tong...
Techno3, strange how I can have a perfectly good-humoured conversation with others on here isn't it? And if you care to look back through the comments, you'll find my initial comment to you was very polite (IMHO), making a simple point. Then you went all "linguistic authoritarians" and it all went a bit Pete Tong... PsiMonk
  • Score: 0

5:25pm Fri 23 Nov 12

Spacial_Doughnut says...

BARF!!!! This is why I am considering a "bread only" diet. But rumour has it that "bread makes you fat". Is this true
BARF!!!! This is why I am considering a "bread only" diet. But rumour has it that "bread makes you fat". Is this true Spacial_Doughnut
  • Score: 0

5:25pm Fri 23 Nov 12

Spacial_Doughnut says...

BARF!!!! This is why I am considering a "bread only" diet. But rumour has it that "bread makes you fat". Is this true?
BARF!!!! This is why I am considering a "bread only" diet. But rumour has it that "bread makes you fat". Is this true? Spacial_Doughnut
  • Score: 0

5:50pm Fri 23 Nov 12

Cornbeefur says...

PsiMonk wrote:
Wizza_b: "Your 5 year old is a vegetarian? how comes?"

Because the whole family are veggies. If our kids expressed a strong and sustained desire to eat meat or fish, they'd be welcome to. So far, both seem very happy as veggies.

Of course, I could just as well ask "how come your kids aren't veggie?" We all make choices about what our kids are or aren't allowed to do... Do veggie kids seem strange to you? Or does vegetarianism in general seem strange to you? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick on your line of questioning?
Vegetarianism did not do Linda McCarthy any good, everything in moderation I think is best.
[quote][p][bold]PsiMonk[/bold] wrote: Wizza_b: "Your 5 year old is a vegetarian? how comes?" Because the whole family are veggies. If our kids expressed a strong and sustained desire to eat meat or fish, they'd be welcome to. So far, both seem very happy as veggies. Of course, I could just as well ask "how come your kids aren't veggie?" We all make choices about what our kids are or aren't allowed to do... Do veggie kids seem strange to you? Or does vegetarianism in general seem strange to you? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick on your line of questioning?[/p][/quote]Vegetarianism did not do Linda McCarthy any good, everything in moderation I think is best. Cornbeefur
  • Score: 0

6:20pm Fri 23 Nov 12

mdj says...

I'm just a bit surprised that someone who clearly cares about what they eat is happy to let Tesco make their decisions for them in the first place.

I believe in the States it's seriously argued by some (one can guess their agenda) that pizza with tomato sauce counts as one of your 5-a-Day!
I'm just a bit surprised that someone who clearly cares about what they eat is happy to let Tesco make their decisions for them in the first place. I believe in the States it's seriously argued by some (one can guess their agenda) that pizza with tomato sauce counts as one of your 5-a-Day! mdj
  • Score: 0

6:54pm Fri 23 Nov 12

LakeBreeze says...

mdj wrote:
I'm just a bit surprised that someone who clearly cares about what they eat is happy to let Tesco make their decisions for them in the first place.

I believe in the States it's seriously argued by some (one can guess their agenda) that pizza with tomato sauce counts as one of your 5-a-Day!
It was a bit more complicated than that. Obviously it was in some vested interests to keep pizza on the school-dinner menus because it's a cheap way to feed the kids. But according to this LA Times article, even the governing body of food and agriculture admit that the tomato paste used in pizza actually does contain a serving of vegetables:
"Under current regulations, an eighth of a cup of tomato paste is considered the nutritional equivalent of a half-cup serving of vegetables, since that's how much tomato it takes to make it. But the USDA noted in its proposal that other pastes and purees don't get the same treatment — they get credit only for the "actual volume as served."

That "loophole" is what makes it possible for a slice of pizza to count as a serving of vegetables, says Margo Wootan, director of nutrition policy at the Center for Science in the Public Interest, an advocacy group based in Washington, D.C."

There was still a huge argument AGAINST this and a lot of controversy though, understandably.

Believe it or not, not all Americans are a bunch of fat-**** trying to justify eating pizza.

At least their pizza has paste or puree rather than the nasty tomato sauce on UK pizzas, that seems like someone threw it on there right out of a Heinz bottle meant for fish and chips.....
[quote][p][bold]mdj[/bold] wrote: I'm just a bit surprised that someone who clearly cares about what they eat is happy to let Tesco make their decisions for them in the first place. I believe in the States it's seriously argued by some (one can guess their agenda) that pizza with tomato sauce counts as one of your 5-a-Day![/p][/quote]It was a bit more complicated than that. Obviously it was in some vested interests to keep pizza on the school-dinner menus because it's a cheap way to feed the kids. But according to this LA Times article, even the governing body of food and agriculture admit that the tomato paste used in pizza actually does contain a serving of vegetables: "[i]Under current regulations, an eighth of a cup of tomato paste is considered the nutritional equivalent of a half-cup serving of vegetables, since that's how much tomato it takes to make it. But the USDA noted in its proposal that other pastes and purees don't get the same treatment — they get credit only for the "actual volume as served." That "loophole" is what makes it possible for a slice of pizza to count as a serving of vegetables, says Margo Wootan, director of nutrition policy at the Center for Science in the Public Interest, an advocacy group based in Washington, D.C.[/i]" There was still a huge argument AGAINST this and a lot of controversy though, understandably. Believe it or not, not all Americans are a bunch of fat-**** trying to justify eating pizza. At least their pizza has paste or puree rather than the nasty tomato sauce on UK pizzas, that seems like someone threw it on there right out of a Heinz bottle meant for fish and chips..... LakeBreeze
  • Score: 0

6:59pm Fri 23 Nov 12

Wizza_b says...

It's like anything. You get what you pay for, talking about the pizzas.

Re tescos, nothing would surprise me
It's like anything. You get what you pay for, talking about the pizzas. Re tescos, nothing would surprise me Wizza_b
  • Score: 0

10:51pm Fri 23 Nov 12

mdj says...

Thanks for the detail: no beef (sorry) with the sauce, but how much pizza do you need to spread your 1-a-Day on? A couple of square feet?
Thanks for the detail: no beef (sorry) with the sauce, but how much pizza do you need to spread your 1-a-Day on? A couple of square feet? mdj
  • Score: 0

2:51pm Mon 26 Nov 12

Walthamster says...

stickmanny wrote:
Techno3 wrote:
PsiMonk wrote:
Disgusted to hear of Mr Penny's unlucky find. But please note, he's not a vegetarian. Vegetarian's don't eat fish. Simple as that.

Lots of people call themselves vegetarian and eat fish - but all that does is confuse everyone (particularly annoying, for actual vegetarians, it tends to confuse catering staff). Pescatarian, perhaps, or non-meat-eater. But not a vegetarian. Any chance of amending the headline pls WF Guardian?
I know loads of people who eat fish and seafood who call themselves vegetarian.
they are fish & chipocrites
Yes!
[quote][p][bold]stickmanny[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Techno3[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]PsiMonk[/bold] wrote: Disgusted to hear of Mr Penny's unlucky find. But please note, he's not a vegetarian. Vegetarian's don't eat fish. Simple as that. Lots of people call themselves vegetarian and eat fish - but all that does is confuse everyone (particularly annoying, for actual vegetarians, it tends to confuse catering staff). Pescatarian, perhaps, or non-meat-eater. But not a vegetarian. Any chance of amending the headline pls WF Guardian?[/p][/quote]I know loads of people who eat fish and seafood who call themselves vegetarian.[/p][/quote]they are fish & chipocrites[/p][/quote]Yes! Walthamster
  • Score: 0

3:00pm Mon 26 Nov 12

Walthamster says...

"The people who plan and serve kids meals *should* know better than to serve a vegetarian fish fingers. Just as you'd expect them to understand what is and isn't Halal or contains nuts etc. on their menu."

No - this is an important difference and should be kept distinct. Eating vegetarian or halal food is a choice and should be respected.

But if someone's got a nut allergy, eating something cooked in nut oil (for example) could kill them. People do die that way.

Even though food preferences should be respected, they shouldn't be muddled in with life-and-death information.
"The people who plan and serve kids meals *should* know better than to serve a vegetarian fish fingers. Just as you'd expect them to understand what is and isn't Halal or contains nuts etc. on their menu." No - this is an important difference and should be kept distinct. Eating vegetarian or halal food is a choice and should be respected. But if someone's got a nut allergy, eating something cooked in nut oil (for example) could kill them. People do die that way. Even though food preferences should be respected, they shouldn't be muddled in with life-and-death information. Walthamster
  • Score: 0

4:42pm Tue 27 Nov 12

Spacial_Doughnut says...

Walthamster wrote:
stickmanny wrote:
Techno3 wrote:
PsiMonk wrote:
Disgusted to hear of Mr Penny's unlucky find. But please note, he's not a vegetarian. Vegetarian's don't eat fish. Simple as that.

Lots of people call themselves vegetarian and eat fish - but all that does is confuse everyone (particularly annoying, for actual vegetarians, it tends to confuse catering staff). Pescatarian, perhaps, or non-meat-eater. But not a vegetarian. Any chance of amending the headline pls WF Guardian?
I know loads of people who eat fish and seafood who call themselves vegetarian.
they are fish & chipocrites
Yes!
"Fish & chipocrites" That has just made my day! Haha!
[quote][p][bold]Walthamster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]stickmanny[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Techno3[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]PsiMonk[/bold] wrote: Disgusted to hear of Mr Penny's unlucky find. But please note, he's not a vegetarian. Vegetarian's don't eat fish. Simple as that. Lots of people call themselves vegetarian and eat fish - but all that does is confuse everyone (particularly annoying, for actual vegetarians, it tends to confuse catering staff). Pescatarian, perhaps, or non-meat-eater. But not a vegetarian. Any chance of amending the headline pls WF Guardian?[/p][/quote]I know loads of people who eat fish and seafood who call themselves vegetarian.[/p][/quote]they are fish & chipocrites[/p][/quote]Yes![/p][/quote]"Fish & chipocrites" That has just made my day! Haha! Spacial_Doughnut
  • Score: 0

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