Labour chief whip in Waltham Forest Cllr Azfal Akram guilty of trying to fix mosque bid - but cleared of other claims

Cllr Akram did try and fix one planning application by pressuring a colleague with a text message, a panel has ruled.

Cllr Akram did try and fix one planning application by pressuring a colleague with a text message, a panel has ruled.

First published in Waltham Forest
Last updated
East London and West Essex Guardian Series: Photograph of the Author by , Senior reporter

A panel has ruled that the chief whip of the Labour Party in Waltham Forest did try to fix a planning application vote by pressuring a colleague with a text message - but has cleared him of all other allegations of wrongdoing.

Cllr Azfal Akram was accused of several attempts to sway the outcome of decisions made by the council's planning committee, which is supposed to make decisions independently of party loyalties.


But a 'determination' disciplinary panel of three councillors has now ruled that only one of the allegations was true.
 

They judged that Cllr Akram did try to influence his colleague Cllr Karen Bellamy on the planning committee over an application to convert Leytonstone's Colgrave Arms pub into a mosque, which was subsequently approved.


He sent a phone message to Cllr Bellamy in the middle of a meeting in September 2012, which was held to vote on the plans, saying "I hope you are going to support this one".


Cllr Akram said the text was a tongue-in-cheek jokey reference to an earlier discussion the pair had on mosque applications, but the determination panel was not convinced.
 

However Cllr Akram was cleared of allegations that he also tried to fix two other applications involving mosques.


Cllr Peter Barnett, the Labour chair of the planning committee who made the allegations, said Cllr Akram verbally threatened Cllr Bellamy with deselection if she did not support one of those proposals.
 

He also claimed Cllr Akram used eye contact and gestures to pressure Cllr Bellamy and Cllr Ebony Vincent during the meeting, although council officers called as witnesses did not see this.
 

Cllr Akram denied all the claims. He said there was either a "wider conspiracy" at the council to get rid of him or that Cllr Barnett had a grudge because he lost his position as chief whip in 2008.


Cllr Akram was suspended as Labour chief whip last autumn and the Labour group is now due to meet within the next few weeks to decide what to do next.
 

Details of the determination panel's ruling and Cllr Akram's punishment are set to be published within the next seven days.


Cllr Barnett said the allegations had the potential to expose the council to legal challenge over other controversial planning applications, such as the Walthamstow Stadium housing development.


The Guardian has approached Cllr Akram for a comment.

Comments (42)

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4:30pm Tue 22 Jan 13

Cornbeefur says...

So what will happen? He will get
re-elected next time round.

Like Grell, Labour look after their own for life it would appear.
So what will happen? He will get re-elected next time round. Like Grell, Labour look after their own for life it would appear. Cornbeefur
  • Score: 0

5:57pm Tue 22 Jan 13

Iftikhar says...

A civilisation is measured not by the rights it grants its majority but the privileges it allows its minorities.
Muslim community not only needs Mosques but also state funded Muslim schools for their bilingual children.

Multiculturalism involves a level of complexity which cannot be understood from the prospective of any single discipline. Instead, historical, cultural, linguistic, political, economic, educational, sociological and psychological factors and processes all play critical role.
Multiculturalism is not about integration but about cultural plurality. It is not about separation but about respect and the deepening awareness of Unity in Diversity. Each culture will maintain its own intrinsic value and at the same time would be expected to contribute to the benefit of the whole society. Multiculturalism can accommodate diversity of all kinds – cultural, philosophical and religious – so that we can create a world without conflict and strife. Britain can assume the role of accommodation and concern for all peoples, for our planet and indeed for our survival. We live in a rapidly changing world.

Muslim families are as entitled as any other religious group to schools that nurture their children's faith. Muslim pupils should be educated in Muslim schools because the current system is marginalising them. Teaching Muslim children in a Muslim school would remove the "problem of them being exposed" to values that conflict with Islamic faith. Muslim pupils are disadvantaged and marginalised in the city's state schools because the cultural heritage of the curriculum is "European and Christian".

Muslim schools provide an education in accordance with the Muslim beliefs and values, such as providing single-sex schooling after puberty. They are thus a response to the danger of absorption into the dominant culture. Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental period. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school.

There are hundreds of state and church schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be opted out as Muslim Academies.
Iftikhar Ahmad
London School of Islamics Trust
http://www.londonsch
oolofislamics.org.uk
A civilisation is measured not by the rights it grants its majority but the privileges it allows its minorities. Muslim community not only needs Mosques but also state funded Muslim schools for their bilingual children. Multiculturalism involves a level of complexity which cannot be understood from the prospective of any single discipline. Instead, historical, cultural, linguistic, political, economic, educational, sociological and psychological factors and processes all play critical role. Multiculturalism is not about integration but about cultural plurality. It is not about separation but about respect and the deepening awareness of Unity in Diversity. Each culture will maintain its own intrinsic value and at the same time would be expected to contribute to the benefit of the whole society. Multiculturalism can accommodate diversity of all kinds – cultural, philosophical and religious – so that we can create a world without conflict and strife. Britain can assume the role of accommodation and concern for all peoples, for our planet and indeed for our survival. We live in a rapidly changing world. Muslim families are as entitled as any other religious group to schools that nurture their children's faith. Muslim pupils should be educated in Muslim schools because the current system is marginalising them. Teaching Muslim children in a Muslim school would remove the "problem of them being exposed" to values that conflict with Islamic faith. Muslim pupils are disadvantaged and marginalised in the city's state schools because the cultural heritage of the curriculum is "European and Christian". Muslim schools provide an education in accordance with the Muslim beliefs and values, such as providing single-sex schooling after puberty. They are thus a response to the danger of absorption into the dominant culture. Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental period. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. There are hundreds of state and church schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be opted out as Muslim Academies. Iftikhar Ahmad London School of Islamics Trust http://www.londonsch oolofislamics.org.uk Iftikhar
  • Score: 0

6:05pm Tue 22 Jan 13

Walthamster says...

"There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. ... There are hundreds of state and church schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be opted out as Muslim Academies."

Thanks for being honest about your aims, Iftikhar.

And you wonder why anyone should be concerned about mosque expansion?
"There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. ... There are hundreds of state and church schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be opted out as Muslim Academies." Thanks for being honest about your aims, Iftikhar. And you wonder why anyone should be concerned about mosque expansion? Walthamster
  • Score: 0

6:18pm Tue 22 Jan 13

Brisbane says...

Iftikhar - there is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for any councillor to put pressure on others to approve or oppose any planning application.

I expect you to condemn Cllr Akram for what he has been found to have done. Anything less than this suggests you do not believe in democracy.
Iftikhar - there is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for any councillor to put pressure on others to approve or oppose any planning application. I expect you to condemn Cllr Akram for what he has been found to have done. Anything less than this suggests you do not believe in democracy. Brisbane
  • Score: 0

6:19pm Tue 22 Jan 13

mdj says...

'Multiculturalism is not about integration but about cultural plurality. It is not about separation but about respect...'
The US Supreme Court nailed that one for good in the Brown case about segregated schooling: 'Separation is inherently unequal'.

In most modern countries publicly-funded education has no religious ingredient.If you believe that 'absorption into the dominant culture' is a 'danger', is this really where you want to be living? Do you have so little faith in the ability of a Muslim domestic upbringing to sustain the faith in the younger generation? Or is it choice, rather than danger, that you wish to 'protect' them from?
You seem also to believe that a Christian child has no place at all in a Muslim country, let alone an education.

As for the topic, after so inbred a scrutiny process one is no nearer any understanding of the truth about the allegations against Cllr Akram. This process has about as much credibility as the Socialist Workers Party investigating its own internal rape allegations.
Has our Council no awareness at all of how this makes them look in the outside world?
'Multiculturalism is not about integration but about cultural plurality. It is not about separation but about respect...' The US Supreme Court nailed that one for good in the Brown case about segregated schooling: 'Separation is inherently unequal'. In most modern countries publicly-funded education has no religious ingredient.If you believe that 'absorption into the dominant culture' is a 'danger', is this really where you want to be living? Do you have so little faith in the ability of a Muslim domestic upbringing to sustain the faith in the younger generation? Or is it choice, rather than danger, that you wish to 'protect' them from? You seem also to believe that a Christian child has no place at all in a Muslim country, let alone an education. As for the topic, after so inbred a scrutiny process one is no nearer any understanding of the truth about the allegations against Cllr Akram. This process has about as much credibility as the Socialist Workers Party investigating its own internal rape allegations. Has our Council no awareness at all of how this makes them look in the outside world? mdj
  • Score: 0

6:26pm Tue 22 Jan 13

Alan_1976 says...

Those Schools should be empty then as there is no such thing as a Muslim child or indeed a Christian child. Only a child of Muslim parents or a child of Christian parents.

It would be a pretty weak faith that could not stand being exposed to alternative points of view.
Those Schools should be empty then as there is no such thing as a Muslim child or indeed a Christian child. Only a child of Muslim parents or a child of Christian parents. It would be a pretty weak faith that could not stand being exposed to alternative points of view. Alan_1976
  • Score: 0

6:41pm Tue 22 Jan 13

lufcbry says...

he has to be sacked now no question on that and simple as iftikar you came here to integrate in our country that doesnt just include benefits and nhs it means schools etc also so put up or go home
he has to be sacked now no question on that and simple as iftikar you came here to integrate in our country that doesnt just include benefits and nhs it means schools etc also so put up or go home lufcbry
  • Score: 0

6:47pm Tue 22 Jan 13

Janet1 says...

It's the interference in the planning process that shocks me, regardless of whether it's for a mosque or anything else.

Surely this undermines all other LBWF decisions, in planning and in other areas?
It's the interference in the planning process that shocks me, regardless of whether it's for a mosque or anything else. Surely this undermines all other LBWF decisions, in planning and in other areas? Janet1
  • Score: 0

7:04pm Tue 22 Jan 13

Walthamster says...

Once again this council is oblivious to a beautiful piece of local history. The Colegrave Arms has, or had, a rare undamaged 1930s interior that was on the the Campaign for Real Ale's regional inventory as being "of special historical interest".

The group who bought the pub immediately broke the law by using it without permission as a mosque. What are the chances they've sensitively maintained the beauty of the interior?
Once again this council is oblivious to a beautiful piece of local history. The Colegrave Arms has, or had, a rare undamaged 1930s interior that was on the the Campaign for Real Ale's regional inventory as being "of special historical interest". The group who bought the pub immediately broke the law by using it without permission as a mosque. What are the chances they've sensitively maintained the beauty of the interior? Walthamster
  • Score: 0

7:23pm Tue 22 Jan 13

Isaythat says...

"There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. ... There are hundreds of state and church schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be opted out as Muslim Academies."

And in my opinion there is no room for people like you in the UK. Your views are dangerous to the future of this country and you show more than a hint of desperation as you see your next generation liking the way we live, enjoying equality, which is every human being right, whether gay, straight, Muslim, Sheikh, man or woman. I sugest that is why you do not want them to mix, not the other way round. The next generation will rebel against your strict discipline and it is starting now.
We must learn to live along side one another as equals and not be so arrogant to believe we are are right and everyone else are less worthy.

Back to the topic. The best we can hope for is Mr. Akram is removed as Councillor. He is now a liability to his party.
"There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. ... There are hundreds of state and church schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be opted out as Muslim Academies." And in my opinion there is no room for people like you in the UK. Your views are dangerous to the future of this country and you show more than a hint of desperation as you see your next generation liking the way we live, enjoying equality, which is every human being right, whether gay, straight, Muslim, Sheikh, man or woman. I sugest that is why you do not want them to mix, not the other way round. The next generation will rebel against your strict discipline and it is starting now. We must learn to live along side one another as equals and not be so arrogant to believe we are are right and everyone else are less worthy. Back to the topic. The best we can hope for is Mr. Akram is removed as Councillor. He is now a liability to his party. Isaythat
  • Score: 0

7:36pm Tue 22 Jan 13

waltham says...

l was there at the planning and was never called as a witness to the fixing !!

CllrPye has also not declared being on the regional board of L&Q yet attended meetings concerning the stow planning !!

too many fingers in the pye !!
l was there at the planning and was never called as a witness to the fixing !! CllrPye has also not declared being on the regional board of L&Q yet attended meetings concerning the stow planning !! too many fingers in the pye !! waltham
  • Score: 0

7:47pm Tue 22 Jan 13

Walthamster says...

Akram is not the only councillor who favours one group over the rest of us.

Remember the council giving the Folly Lane playing fields site to Waltham Forest Muslim Burial Trust, as a free gift? Yes, that's several acres of London land, surprisingly valued by the council's valuer at zero.

The chairman of WF Muslim Burial Trust happened to be Cllr Liaquat Ali. "Conflict of interests" isn't something that bothers WF council.

I wouldn't mind so much if Cllr Ali hadn't ignored every request by me, or by the local library campaign or by anyone else I knew in our area! And he's our local councillor, he's actually paid to represent us.
Akram is not the only councillor who favours one group over the rest of us. Remember the council giving the Folly Lane playing fields site to Waltham Forest Muslim Burial Trust, as a free gift? Yes, that's several acres of London land, surprisingly valued by the council's valuer at zero. The chairman of WF Muslim Burial Trust happened to be Cllr Liaquat Ali. "Conflict of interests" isn't something that bothers WF council. I wouldn't mind so much if Cllr Ali hadn't ignored every request by me, or by the local library campaign or by anyone else I knew in our area! And he's our local councillor, he's actually paid to represent us. Walthamster
  • Score: 0

7:52pm Tue 22 Jan 13

SXH says...

Cllr Azfal Akram guilty because there was evidence against him, Cllr Karen Bellamy came forward whatever the reasons, many more councillors should do the same if they want good honest votes in the future.
There is no excuse for trying to fix a planning application, go through the right channels like many others do,

He should be sacked
Cllr Azfal Akram guilty because there was evidence against him, Cllr Karen Bellamy came forward whatever the reasons, many more councillors should do the same if they want good honest votes in the future. There is no excuse for trying to fix a planning application, go through the right channels like many others do, He should be sacked SXH
  • Score: 0

7:55pm Tue 22 Jan 13

Walthamster says...

waltham wrote:
l was there at the planning and was never called as a witness to the fixing !!

CllrPye has also not declared being on the regional board of L&Q yet attended meetings concerning the stow planning !!

too many fingers in the pye !!
This is another good point, Waltham.

Local people have been fighting to stop L&Q's plans for a massive housing development on the Stow dog-track site.

Yet the council actually helped L&Q with their plans, and gave them planning permission in the teeth of massive local opposition.

The campaigners are now awaiting a High Court decision on whether a judicial review can go ahead.

Given what we now know about WF planning applications, the decision should at least be reconsidered.
[quote][p][bold]waltham[/bold] wrote: l was there at the planning and was never called as a witness to the fixing !! CllrPye has also not declared being on the regional board of L&Q yet attended meetings concerning the stow planning !! too many fingers in the pye !![/p][/quote]This is another good point, Waltham. Local people have been fighting to stop L&Q's plans for a massive housing development on the Stow dog-track site. Yet the council actually helped L&Q with their plans, and gave them planning permission in the teeth of massive local opposition. The campaigners are now awaiting a High Court decision on whether a judicial review can go ahead. Given what we now know about WF planning applications, the decision should at least be reconsidered. Walthamster
  • Score: 0

8:01pm Tue 22 Jan 13

SXH says...

Waltham does this mean all who sit on planning are involved? if you witnessed it then surely they did.
Waltham does this mean all who sit on planning are involved? if you witnessed it then surely they did. SXH
  • Score: 0

8:16pm Tue 22 Jan 13

mdj says...

This seems one of the milder of Cllr Akram's infringements, but of course, this one concerned a Labour colleague, and one who has the ear of the Strong Leader. A year after a box-junction in E11 had been ruled unlawful, it was revealed that many thousands of illegally-levied fines remained in Council coffers, with no effort made to return them. That's theft. Cllr in charge: Mr Ali.
For four years it was found that the alcohol-free zone in E11 had not been validly enacted by full Council: that's four years of false arrests, unlawful searches, and confiscations of personal property, at the Council's instigation. Cllr in charge: Mr Ali.
No apology in either case.

But how could Mr Ali possibly resign? His whole business model consists in plural accumulation of salaries and allowances from the public purse. What talents qualify him to chair every single one of the area's Primary Healthcare Trusts? Either he's an indispensable genius of Napoleonic stature, or the Labour Party talent pool is alarmingly shallow (should these be party-determined posts anyway?), or he knows an awful lot about his colleagues.
This seems one of the milder of Cllr Akram's infringements, but of course, this one concerned a Labour colleague, and one who has the ear of the Strong Leader. A year after a box-junction in E11 had been ruled unlawful, it was revealed that many thousands of illegally-levied fines remained in Council coffers, with no effort made to return them. That's theft. Cllr in charge: Mr Ali. For four years it was found that the alcohol-free zone in E11 had not been validly enacted by full Council: that's four years of false arrests, unlawful searches, and confiscations of personal property, at the Council's instigation. Cllr in charge: Mr Ali. No apology in either case. But how could Mr Ali possibly resign? His whole business model consists in plural accumulation of salaries and allowances from the public purse. What talents qualify him to chair every single one of the area's Primary Healthcare Trusts? Either he's an indispensable genius of Napoleonic stature, or the Labour Party talent pool is alarmingly shallow (should these be party-determined posts anyway?), or he knows an awful lot about his colleagues. mdj
  • Score: 0

8:26pm Tue 22 Jan 13

Cornbeefur says...

SXH wrote:
Waltham does this mean all who sit on planning are involved? if you witnessed it then surely they did.
Please do not tar everyone. You are nodding by emulating what everybody is saying and there are racist undertones.

Those in glass houses should not throw stones. Calm down.
[quote][p][bold]SXH[/bold] wrote: Waltham does this mean all who sit on planning are involved? if you witnessed it then surely they did.[/p][/quote]Please do not tar everyone. You are nodding by emulating what everybody is saying and there are racist undertones. Those in glass houses should not throw stones. Calm down. Cornbeefur
  • Score: 0

8:34pm Tue 22 Jan 13

Walthamster says...

Cornbeefur wrote:
SXH wrote:
Waltham does this mean all who sit on planning are involved? if you witnessed it then surely they did.
Please do not tar everyone. You are nodding by emulating what everybody is saying and there are racist undertones.

Those in glass houses should not throw stones. Calm down.
What racist undertones? The planning committee includes councillors of various backgrounds.
[quote][p][bold]Cornbeefur[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SXH[/bold] wrote: Waltham does this mean all who sit on planning are involved? if you witnessed it then surely they did.[/p][/quote]Please do not tar everyone. You are nodding by emulating what everybody is saying and there are racist undertones. Those in glass houses should not throw stones. Calm down.[/p][/quote]What racist undertones? The planning committee includes councillors of various backgrounds. Walthamster
  • Score: 0

8:36pm Tue 22 Jan 13

SXH says...

Cornbeefur wrote:
SXH wrote: Waltham does this mean all who sit on planning are involved? if you witnessed it then surely they did.
Please do not tar everyone. You are nodding by emulating what everybody is saying and there are racist undertones. Those in glass houses should not throw stones. Calm down.
how many drinks you had tonight
[quote][p][bold]Cornbeefur[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SXH[/bold] wrote: Waltham does this mean all who sit on planning are involved? if you witnessed it then surely they did.[/p][/quote]Please do not tar everyone. You are nodding by emulating what everybody is saying and there are racist undertones. Those in glass houses should not throw stones. Calm down.[/p][/quote]how many drinks you had tonight SXH
  • Score: 0

8:41pm Tue 22 Jan 13

Cornbeefur says...

SXH wrote:
Cornbeefur wrote:
SXH wrote: Waltham does this mean all who sit on planning are involved? if you witnessed it then surely they did.
Please do not tar everyone. You are nodding by emulating what everybody is saying and there are racist undertones. Those in glass houses should not throw stones. Calm down.
how many drinks you had tonight
Teetotal Madam, unless you classify Lapsang souchong as an indulgence.
[quote][p][bold]SXH[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cornbeefur[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SXH[/bold] wrote: Waltham does this mean all who sit on planning are involved? if you witnessed it then surely they did.[/p][/quote]Please do not tar everyone. You are nodding by emulating what everybody is saying and there are racist undertones. Those in glass houses should not throw stones. Calm down.[/p][/quote]how many drinks you had tonight[/p][/quote]Teetotal Madam, unless you classify Lapsang souchong as an indulgence. Cornbeefur
  • Score: 0

8:45pm Tue 22 Jan 13

fgdfsdf says...

Wow! Where do I begin?

1. A civilisation is measured not by the rights it grants its majority but the privileges it allows its minorities. This country grants rights to anybody that crosses its borders, much to the detriment of its citizens, indigenous or not.

2. Multiculturalism is not about integration but about cultural plurality. It is not about separation but about respect and the deepening awareness of Unity in Diversity. You are correct, multiculturalism is not about interation. In my sphere of experience of growing up in England it is about traditional English values being eroded and marginalised. Whilst I do object to such erosion I am not adverse to learning about different cultures and religions and fully enjoy having friends of different races and reglions that I can ask genuine questions of about their family beliefs. But that said if another race or person of a different reglion choses to settle in England then they should make it their aim to integrate inthe day to day matters and values of England. I would say exactly the same of someone from England settling elsewhere in the world.

3. Muslim families are as entitled as any other religious group to schools that nurture their children's faith. Muslim pupils should be educated in Muslim schools because the current system is marginalising them. The current system does not marginalise muslim students. In the majority of cases they are given the freedom to wear clothing in line with their relgious beliefs (you could always try living in France). We live ina secular society, most comprehensive schools do not place an emphasis upon religon. General religious eduction is taught as part of the curriculum. Parents, whether chrstian, jewish or muslim are free to arrange further eductaion for their children outside of the school environment.

4. Muslim pupils are disadvantaged and marginalised in the city's state schools because the cultural heritage of the curriculum is "European and Christian". Of course they are, but only from the older generations point of view. You are living in a European and Christian country. If you wish to live in a muslim country then the answer is obvious.....move!

5. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school? multicultural can accommodate diversity of all kinds – cultural, philosophical and religious – so that we can create a world without conflict and strife. I think your statements contradict each other. If the adults of tomorrow are not exposed to the varieties of the world today then history will continue to repeat itself andwe will never live in peace with each other.

I am glad that the muslim people I know ar of a more progressive state of mind than you
Wow! Where do I begin? 1. A civilisation is measured not by the rights it grants its majority but the privileges it allows its minorities. This country grants rights to anybody that crosses its borders, much to the detriment of its citizens, indigenous or not. 2. Multiculturalism is not about integration but about cultural plurality. It is not about separation but about respect and the deepening awareness of Unity in Diversity. You are correct, multiculturalism is not about interation. In my sphere of experience of growing up in England it is about traditional English values being eroded and marginalised. Whilst I do object to such erosion I am not adverse to learning about different cultures and religions and fully enjoy having friends of different races and reglions that I can ask genuine questions of about their family beliefs. But that said if another race or person of a different reglion choses to settle in England then they should make it their aim to integrate inthe day to day matters and values of England. I would say exactly the same of someone from England settling elsewhere in the world. 3. Muslim families are as entitled as any other religious group to schools that nurture their children's faith. Muslim pupils should be educated in Muslim schools because the current system is marginalising them. The current system does not marginalise muslim students. In the majority of cases they are given the freedom to wear clothing in line with their relgious beliefs (you could always try living in France). We live ina secular society, most comprehensive schools do not place an emphasis upon religon. General religious eduction is taught as part of the curriculum. Parents, whether chrstian, jewish or muslim are free to arrange further eductaion for their children outside of the school environment. 4. Muslim pupils are disadvantaged and marginalised in the city's state schools because the cultural heritage of the curriculum is "European and Christian". Of course they are, but only from the older generations point of view. You are living in a European and Christian country. If you wish to live in a muslim country then the answer is obvious.....move! 5. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school? multicultural can accommodate diversity of all kinds – cultural, philosophical and religious – so that we can create a world without conflict and strife. I think your statements contradict each other. If the adults of tomorrow are not exposed to the varieties of the world today then history will continue to repeat itself andwe will never live in peace with each other. I am glad that the muslim people I know ar of a more progressive state of mind than you fgdfsdf
  • Score: 0

8:54pm Tue 22 Jan 13

Cornbeefur says...

fgdfsdf wrote:
Wow! Where do I begin?

1. A civilisation is measured not by the rights it grants its majority but the privileges it allows its minorities. This country grants rights to anybody that crosses its borders, much to the detriment of its citizens, indigenous or not.

2. Multiculturalism is not about integration but about cultural plurality. It is not about separation but about respect and the deepening awareness of Unity in Diversity. You are correct, multiculturalism is not about interation. In my sphere of experience of growing up in England it is about traditional English values being eroded and marginalised. Whilst I do object to such erosion I am not adverse to learning about different cultures and religions and fully enjoy having friends of different races and reglions that I can ask genuine questions of about their family beliefs. But that said if another race or person of a different reglion choses to settle in England then they should make it their aim to integrate inthe day to day matters and values of England. I would say exactly the same of someone from England settling elsewhere in the world.

3. Muslim families are as entitled as any other religious group to schools that nurture their children's faith. Muslim pupils should be educated in Muslim schools because the current system is marginalising them. The current system does not marginalise muslim students. In the majority of cases they are given the freedom to wear clothing in line with their relgious beliefs (you could always try living in France). We live ina secular society, most comprehensive schools do not place an emphasis upon religon. General religious eduction is taught as part of the curriculum. Parents, whether chrstian, jewish or muslim are free to arrange further eductaion for their children outside of the school environment.

4. Muslim pupils are disadvantaged and marginalised in the city's state schools because the cultural heritage of the curriculum is "European and Christian". Of course they are, but only from the older generations point of view. You are living in a European and Christian country. If you wish to live in a muslim country then the answer is obvious.....move!

5. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school? multicultural can accommodate diversity of all kinds – cultural, philosophical and religious – so that we can create a world without conflict and strife. I think your statements contradict each other. If the adults of tomorrow are not exposed to the varieties of the world today then history will continue to repeat itself andwe will never live in peace with each other.

I am glad that the muslim people I know ar of a more progressive state of mind than you
It is a shame that many 'white' girls are beaten to a place at Woodford County High Grammar for Girls as it would appear that by Statistics alone, the Asian and Afro Caribbean Girls are more disciplined and would rather Study than go out to Clubs and spend their time on Facebook.

Some Cultures concentrate on 'Family' rather that drinking and partying and support their children more to succeed which is why many professions like Medicine and Law are taken up by these Cultures.

It has to be acknowledged that many Asians and Ethnic Groups are generally far more intelligent than the average X Factor Splash loving 'White Brit Students these days?
[quote][p][bold]fgdfsdf[/bold] wrote: Wow! Where do I begin? 1. A civilisation is measured not by the rights it grants its majority but the privileges it allows its minorities. This country grants rights to anybody that crosses its borders, much to the detriment of its citizens, indigenous or not. 2. Multiculturalism is not about integration but about cultural plurality. It is not about separation but about respect and the deepening awareness of Unity in Diversity. You are correct, multiculturalism is not about interation. In my sphere of experience of growing up in England it is about traditional English values being eroded and marginalised. Whilst I do object to such erosion I am not adverse to learning about different cultures and religions and fully enjoy having friends of different races and reglions that I can ask genuine questions of about their family beliefs. But that said if another race or person of a different reglion choses to settle in England then they should make it their aim to integrate inthe day to day matters and values of England. I would say exactly the same of someone from England settling elsewhere in the world. 3. Muslim families are as entitled as any other religious group to schools that nurture their children's faith. Muslim pupils should be educated in Muslim schools because the current system is marginalising them. The current system does not marginalise muslim students. In the majority of cases they are given the freedom to wear clothing in line with their relgious beliefs (you could always try living in France). We live ina secular society, most comprehensive schools do not place an emphasis upon religon. General religious eduction is taught as part of the curriculum. Parents, whether chrstian, jewish or muslim are free to arrange further eductaion for their children outside of the school environment. 4. Muslim pupils are disadvantaged and marginalised in the city's state schools because the cultural heritage of the curriculum is "European and Christian". Of course they are, but only from the older generations point of view. You are living in a European and Christian country. If you wish to live in a muslim country then the answer is obvious.....move! 5. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school? multicultural can accommodate diversity of all kinds – cultural, philosophical and religious – so that we can create a world without conflict and strife. I think your statements contradict each other. If the adults of tomorrow are not exposed to the varieties of the world today then history will continue to repeat itself andwe will never live in peace with each other. I am glad that the muslim people I know ar of a more progressive state of mind than you[/p][/quote]It is a shame that many 'white' girls are beaten to a place at Woodford County High Grammar for Girls as it would appear that by Statistics alone, the Asian and Afro Caribbean Girls are more disciplined and would rather Study than go out to Clubs and spend their time on Facebook. Some Cultures concentrate on 'Family' rather that drinking and partying and support their children more to succeed which is why many professions like Medicine and Law are taken up by these Cultures. It has to be acknowledged that many Asians and Ethnic Groups are generally far more intelligent than the average X Factor Splash loving 'White Brit Students these days? Cornbeefur
  • Score: 0

8:54pm Tue 22 Jan 13

SXH says...

Cornbeefur wrote:
SXH wrote:
Cornbeefur wrote:
SXH wrote: Waltham does this mean all who sit on planning are involved? if you witnessed it then surely they did.
Please do not tar everyone. You are nodding by emulating what everybody is saying and there are racist undertones. Those in glass houses should not throw stones. Calm down.
how many drinks you had tonight
Teetotal Madam, unless you classify Lapsang souchong as an indulgence.
Cornbeefur please make comments on this article and not insult comments i make.
[quote][p][bold]Cornbeefur[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SXH[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cornbeefur[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SXH[/bold] wrote: Waltham does this mean all who sit on planning are involved? if you witnessed it then surely they did.[/p][/quote]Please do not tar everyone. You are nodding by emulating what everybody is saying and there are racist undertones. Those in glass houses should not throw stones. Calm down.[/p][/quote]how many drinks you had tonight[/p][/quote]Teetotal Madam, unless you classify Lapsang souchong as an indulgence.[/p][/quote]Cornbeefur please make comments on this article and not insult comments i make. SXH
  • Score: 0

9:07pm Tue 22 Jan 13

ATENATEN says...

This is not a Muslim country if you do not like the customs of this country you have the option of leaving...you have not been forced to come here and you should go where you are with your own kind...and not inflict your peasant and primtive religion and mentality on this country...there are plenty of other places in the world for you to go so simply do...there is no intellectual argument you can possibly present you repress women are homophobic and it is primitive to believe in any greater being there is nothing beyond death...we are all then nothing.
This is not a Muslim country if you do not like the customs of this country you have the option of leaving...you have not been forced to come here and you should go where you are with your own kind...and not inflict your peasant and primtive religion and mentality on this country...there are plenty of other places in the world for you to go so simply do...there is no intellectual argument you can possibly present you repress women are homophobic and it is primitive to believe in any greater being there is nothing beyond death...we are all then nothing. ATENATEN
  • Score: 0

9:17pm Tue 22 Jan 13

Trevor 2 says...

Cornbeefur wrote:
So what will happen? He will get
re-elected next time round.

Like Grell, Labour look after their own for life it would appear.
His punishment, if any, will probably be a small fine from his exorbitant allowances!!
[quote][p][bold]Cornbeefur[/bold] wrote: So what will happen? He will get re-elected next time round. Like Grell, Labour look after their own for life it would appear.[/p][/quote]His punishment, if any, will probably be a small fine from his exorbitant allowances!! Trevor 2
  • Score: 0

9:24pm Tue 22 Jan 13

fgdfsdf says...

Cornbeefur wrote:
fgdfsdf wrote:
Wow! Where do I begin?

1. A civilisation is measured not by the rights it grants its majority but the privileges it allows its minorities. This country grants rights to anybody that crosses its borders, much to the detriment of its citizens, indigenous or not.

2. Multiculturalism is not about integration but about cultural plurality. It is not about separation but about respect and the deepening awareness of Unity in Diversity. You are correct, multiculturalism is not about interation. In my sphere of experience of growing up in England it is about traditional English values being eroded and marginalised. Whilst I do object to such erosion I am not adverse to learning about different cultures and religions and fully enjoy having friends of different races and reglions that I can ask genuine questions of about their family beliefs. But that said if another race or person of a different reglion choses to settle in England then they should make it their aim to integrate inthe day to day matters and values of England. I would say exactly the same of someone from England settling elsewhere in the world.

3. Muslim families are as entitled as any other religious group to schools that nurture their children's faith. Muslim pupils should be educated in Muslim schools because the current system is marginalising them. The current system does not marginalise muslim students. In the majority of cases they are given the freedom to wear clothing in line with their relgious beliefs (you could always try living in France). We live ina secular society, most comprehensive schools do not place an emphasis upon religon. General religious eduction is taught as part of the curriculum. Parents, whether chrstian, jewish or muslim are free to arrange further eductaion for their children outside of the school environment.

4. Muslim pupils are disadvantaged and marginalised in the city's state schools because the cultural heritage of the curriculum is "European and Christian". Of course they are, but only from the older generations point of view. You are living in a European and Christian country. If you wish to live in a muslim country then the answer is obvious.....move!

5. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school? multicultural can accommodate diversity of all kinds – cultural, philosophical and religious – so that we can create a world without conflict and strife. I think your statements contradict each other. If the adults of tomorrow are not exposed to the varieties of the world today then history will continue to repeat itself andwe will never live in peace with each other.

I am glad that the muslim people I know ar of a more progressive state of mind than you
It is a shame that many 'white' girls are beaten to a place at Woodford County High Grammar for Girls as it would appear that by Statistics alone, the Asian and Afro Caribbean Girls are more disciplined and would rather Study than go out to Clubs and spend their time on Facebook.

Some Cultures concentrate on 'Family' rather that drinking and partying and support their children more to succeed which is why many professions like Medicine and Law are taken up by these Cultures.

It has to be acknowledged that many Asians and Ethnic Groups are generally far more intelligent than the average X Factor Splash loving 'White Brit Students these days?
Cornbeefer, generally I don't disagree with your comments. But the comments by myself or Ifikatar do not focus upon winning places at Woodford County School or whther children wih to look at Facebook. They are focused upon multiculturalism and integration. So your point is quite irrelevant really.
[quote][p][bold]Cornbeefur[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]fgdfsdf[/bold] wrote: Wow! Where do I begin? 1. A civilisation is measured not by the rights it grants its majority but the privileges it allows its minorities. This country grants rights to anybody that crosses its borders, much to the detriment of its citizens, indigenous or not. 2. Multiculturalism is not about integration but about cultural plurality. It is not about separation but about respect and the deepening awareness of Unity in Diversity. You are correct, multiculturalism is not about interation. In my sphere of experience of growing up in England it is about traditional English values being eroded and marginalised. Whilst I do object to such erosion I am not adverse to learning about different cultures and religions and fully enjoy having friends of different races and reglions that I can ask genuine questions of about their family beliefs. But that said if another race or person of a different reglion choses to settle in England then they should make it their aim to integrate inthe day to day matters and values of England. I would say exactly the same of someone from England settling elsewhere in the world. 3. Muslim families are as entitled as any other religious group to schools that nurture their children's faith. Muslim pupils should be educated in Muslim schools because the current system is marginalising them. The current system does not marginalise muslim students. In the majority of cases they are given the freedom to wear clothing in line with their relgious beliefs (you could always try living in France). We live ina secular society, most comprehensive schools do not place an emphasis upon religon. General religious eduction is taught as part of the curriculum. Parents, whether chrstian, jewish or muslim are free to arrange further eductaion for their children outside of the school environment. 4. Muslim pupils are disadvantaged and marginalised in the city's state schools because the cultural heritage of the curriculum is "European and Christian". Of course they are, but only from the older generations point of view. You are living in a European and Christian country. If you wish to live in a muslim country then the answer is obvious.....move! 5. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school? multicultural can accommodate diversity of all kinds – cultural, philosophical and religious – so that we can create a world without conflict and strife. I think your statements contradict each other. If the adults of tomorrow are not exposed to the varieties of the world today then history will continue to repeat itself andwe will never live in peace with each other. I am glad that the muslim people I know ar of a more progressive state of mind than you[/p][/quote]It is a shame that many 'white' girls are beaten to a place at Woodford County High Grammar for Girls as it would appear that by Statistics alone, the Asian and Afro Caribbean Girls are more disciplined and would rather Study than go out to Clubs and spend their time on Facebook. Some Cultures concentrate on 'Family' rather that drinking and partying and support their children more to succeed which is why many professions like Medicine and Law are taken up by these Cultures. It has to be acknowledged that many Asians and Ethnic Groups are generally far more intelligent than the average X Factor Splash loving 'White Brit Students these days?[/p][/quote]Cornbeefer, generally I don't disagree with your comments. But the comments by myself or Ifikatar do not focus upon winning places at Woodford County School or whther children wih to look at Facebook. They are focused upon multiculturalism and integration. So your point is quite irrelevant really. fgdfsdf
  • Score: 0

11:28pm Tue 22 Jan 13

mdj says...

Apologies for Akram/Ali mistype above.
Apologies for Akram/Ali mistype above. mdj
  • Score: 0

12:37am Wed 23 Jan 13

SpursSupporter1 says...

I simply cannot believe the utter tripe and rubbish that some are saying here! Dont make me laugh, how recently was in it the news that a woman was murdered and a young tennage girl beaten purely because they wanted to be treated as equals too men in a muslim country, what happens when you go too a muslim country? Correct me if im wrong but you either live by their ways or you get out well then surely the same does apply when you would be in the UK which is a predominantly christian country if you dont like the customs, religons, dress sense etc etc its Simple pack your suit cases and Go Home End Off but no the NHS. Benefit System. Housing Etc Etc is way too good for that, here in England Men and Women are equal. My children are mixed race and how dare you even make the suggestion that a white child is less likely too do well in education simply because of family. A s for the councillor he should do the decent thing and resign but he wont then without a doubt he should be sacked. This story should be about the criminal goings on at Waltham Forest planning Department but again individuals comments have deterred it away from that
I simply cannot believe the utter tripe and rubbish that some are saying here! Dont make me laugh, how recently was in it the news that a woman was murdered and a young tennage girl beaten purely because they wanted to be treated as equals too men in a muslim country, what happens when you go too a muslim country? Correct me if im wrong but you either live by their ways or you get out well then surely the same does apply when you would be in the UK which is a predominantly christian country if you dont like the customs, religons, dress sense etc etc its Simple pack your suit cases and Go Home End Off but no the NHS. Benefit System. Housing Etc Etc is way too good for that, here in England Men and Women are equal. My children are mixed race and how dare you even make the suggestion that a white child is less likely too do well in education simply because of family. A s for the councillor he should do the decent thing and resign but he wont then without a doubt he should be sacked. This story should be about the criminal goings on at Waltham Forest planning Department but again individuals comments have deterred it away from that SpursSupporter1
  • Score: 0

1:14am Wed 23 Jan 13

ColinOrient says...

Walthamster wrote:
"There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. ... There are hundreds of state and church schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be opted out as Muslim Academies."

Thanks for being honest about your aims, Iftikhar.

And you wonder why anyone should be concerned about mosque expansion?
Quite right. Imagine the uproar if someone said 'there should only be Catholics in Catholic schools' or 'only Welsh children can attend schools in Wales'. What happened to good old equality?
[quote][p][bold]Walthamster[/bold] wrote: "There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. ... There are hundreds of state and church schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be opted out as Muslim Academies." Thanks for being honest about your aims, Iftikhar. And you wonder why anyone should be concerned about mosque expansion?[/p][/quote]Quite right. Imagine the uproar if someone said 'there should only be Catholics in Catholic schools' or 'only Welsh children can attend schools in Wales'. What happened to good old equality? ColinOrient
  • Score: 0

8:09am Wed 23 Jan 13

SpursSupporter1 says...

ColinOrient wrote:
Walthamster wrote:
"There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. ... There are hundreds of state and church schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be opted out as Muslim Academies."

Thanks for being honest about your aims, Iftikhar.

And you wonder why anyone should be concerned about mosque expansion?
Quite right. Imagine the uproar if someone said 'there should only be Catholics in Catholic schools' or 'only Welsh children can attend schools in Wales'. What happened to good old equality?
Everybodys point exactly ColinOrient itl be hard pressed to find somebody that doesnt agree withyou on that
[quote][p][bold]ColinOrient[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Walthamster[/bold] wrote: "There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. ... There are hundreds of state and church schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be opted out as Muslim Academies." Thanks for being honest about your aims, Iftikhar. And you wonder why anyone should be concerned about mosque expansion?[/p][/quote]Quite right. Imagine the uproar if someone said 'there should only be Catholics in Catholic schools' or 'only Welsh children can attend schools in Wales'. What happened to good old equality?[/p][/quote]Everybodys point exactly ColinOrient itl be hard pressed to find somebody that doesnt agree withyou on that SpursSupporter1
  • Score: 0

10:37am Wed 23 Jan 13

taff515 says...

'Found guilty by a jury of his peers'
So
a message to Chris Robins
If you wish the party to flourish you must take positive action - remove him from post- and send a clear message to the electorate that this is something that will NOT be tolerated
'Found guilty by a jury of his peers' So a message to Chris Robins [ unfortunately photographed right behind Cllr Akram] If you wish the party to flourish you must take positive action - remove him from post- and send a clear message to the electorate that this is something that will NOT be tolerated taff515
  • Score: 0

11:20am Wed 23 Jan 13

Stow Residents/Community Association says...

We find the result of the investigation interesting especially as some members of our group were present at the Chingford Mosque planning hearing.

To my knowledge none, including myself were called to give evidence

Councillors should be acting on behalf of local people when taking decisions as it is local people they are supposed to be representing and local people who voted then into their posts.
G. Penfold Chair
We find the result of the investigation interesting especially as some members of our group were present at the Chingford Mosque planning hearing. To my knowledge none, including myself were called to give evidence Councillors should be acting on behalf of local people when taking decisions as it is local people they are supposed to be representing and local people who voted then into their posts. G. Penfold Chair Stow Residents/Community Association
  • Score: 0

1:32pm Wed 23 Jan 13

Call me Earl says...

Should we be surprised! when we hear the likes of councillor Afzal Akram, Liaquat Ali and other crooked councillors in the councils of this borough and country using unethical tactics to self promote themselves and further their cause.
They have the cultural audacity to think that they would not be found out and if so, carry on as if nothing happened. Unfortunately they have the backing of their own kind to keep them in place. Never mind give them "all" an M.B.E. for trying.
Should we be surprised! when we hear the likes of councillor Afzal Akram, Liaquat Ali and other crooked councillors in the councils of this borough and country using unethical tactics to self promote themselves and further their cause. They have the cultural audacity to think that they would not be found out and if so, carry on as if nothing happened. Unfortunately they have the backing of their own kind to keep them in place. Never mind give them "all" an M.B.E. for trying. Call me Earl
  • Score: 0

4:46pm Wed 23 Jan 13

Trevor 2 says...

taff515 wrote:
'Found guilty by a jury of his peers'
So
a message to Chris Robins
If you wish the party to flourish you must take positive action - remove him from post- and send a clear message to the electorate that this is something that will NOT be tolerated
Don't expect 'Robbing Robbins' to take ANY such action!!
[quote][p][bold]taff515[/bold] wrote: 'Found guilty by a jury of his peers' So a message to Chris Robins [ unfortunately photographed right behind Cllr Akram] If you wish the party to flourish you must take positive action - remove him from post- and send a clear message to the electorate that this is something that will NOT be tolerated[/p][/quote]Don't expect 'Robbing Robbins' to take ANY such action!! Trevor 2
  • Score: 0

5:38pm Wed 23 Jan 13

SpursSupporter1 says...

Robbing robbins wont take action because as bad as this councillors Pye L&Q included
Robbing robbins wont take action because as bad as this councillors Pye L&Q included SpursSupporter1
  • Score: 0

8:15pm Wed 23 Jan 13

Redbridge person says...

this is what happens when people from countries where corruption and fraud is accepted and not seen as wrong but the norm....occupy positions of influence and power.....but of course any mention of this or a critism is met with the usual pc nonsense of racism!!
this is what happens when people from countries where corruption and fraud is accepted and not seen as wrong but the norm....occupy positions of influence and power.....but of course any mention of this or a critism is met with the usual pc nonsense of racism!! Redbridge person
  • Score: 0

9:36pm Thu 24 Jan 13

mdj says...

Is there a reason for comments on the article following this one to be closed, and the previous comments hidden from view?
Here are some considerations that arise from the very strange situation of a quasi-judicial body - a Council disciplinary committee - subcontracting its sentencing powers to a body that has no existence under the Council's Constitution.
Does it have the power to do so? What is the legal status of such an outside penalty? Does the Council committee have a veto over it? Does the accused have any choice in this decision, for or against? What if the body felt that no offence against its own rules had occurred? By what process can the Committee appeal? What if the accused feels that the outside body's penalty is more severe than any within the powers of the Committee? What sort of body would or would not be considered fit to impose a penalty? A lodge, a Rotary club, a mosque, a swingers' club?
Are our Councillors so corporatist in their mindsets that they can see no line between the Council and the private political parties to which its current members owe allegiance? Would an independent Councillor be sent home to penalise himself?
Is there a reason for comments on the article following this one to be closed, and the previous comments hidden from view? Here are some considerations that arise from the very strange situation of a quasi-judicial body - a Council disciplinary committee - subcontracting its sentencing powers to a body that has no existence under the Council's Constitution. Does it have the power to do so? What is the legal status of such an outside penalty? Does the Council committee have a veto over it? Does the accused have any choice in this decision, for or against? What if the body felt that no offence against its own rules had occurred? By what process can the Committee appeal? What if the accused feels that the outside body's penalty is more severe than any within the powers of the Committee? What sort of body would or would not be considered fit to impose a penalty? A lodge, a Rotary club, a mosque, a swingers' club? Are our Councillors so corporatist in their mindsets that they can see no line between the Council and the private political parties to which its current members owe allegiance? Would an independent Councillor be sent home to penalise himself? mdj
  • Score: 0

11:57pm Thu 24 Jan 13

Trevor 2 says...

So the Labour group will decide Akram's punishment. Probably a 'well done you got away with it', a pat on the back and then off down the pub!
So the Labour group will decide Akram's punishment. Probably a 'well done you got away with it', a pat on the back and then off down the pub! Trevor 2
  • Score: 0

12:54pm Sat 26 Jan 13

Ferdy54 says...

I hope they're not secretly drinking while they're supposed to be praying? :-)
I hope they're not secretly drinking while they're supposed to be praying? :-) Ferdy54
  • Score: 0

8:46am Sun 27 Jan 13

Ever Watchful says...

mdj wrote:
Is there a reason for comments on the article following this one to be closed, and the previous comments hidden from view?
Here are some considerations that arise from the very strange situation of a quasi-judicial body - a Council disciplinary committee - subcontracting its sentencing powers to a body that has no existence under the Council's Constitution.
Does it have the power to do so? What is the legal status of such an outside penalty? Does the Council committee have a veto over it? Does the accused have any choice in this decision, for or against? What if the body felt that no offence against its own rules had occurred? By what process can the Committee appeal? What if the accused feels that the outside body's penalty is more severe than any within the powers of the Committee? What sort of body would or would not be considered fit to impose a penalty? A lodge, a Rotary club, a mosque, a swingers' club?
Are our Councillors so corporatist in their mindsets that they can see no line between the Council and the private political parties to which its current members owe allegiance? Would an independent Councillor be sent home to penalise himself?
It would helpful if the actual process/procedure for dealing with corruption was available on-line so that the public had a fuller understanding of how matters like this are dealt with, rather than a 'committee' making independent descisions.
[quote][p][bold]mdj[/bold] wrote: Is there a reason for comments on the article following this one to be closed, and the previous comments hidden from view? Here are some considerations that arise from the very strange situation of a quasi-judicial body - a Council disciplinary committee - subcontracting its sentencing powers to a body that has no existence under the Council's Constitution. Does it have the power to do so? What is the legal status of such an outside penalty? Does the Council committee have a veto over it? Does the accused have any choice in this decision, for or against? What if the body felt that no offence against its own rules had occurred? By what process can the Committee appeal? What if the accused feels that the outside body's penalty is more severe than any within the powers of the Committee? What sort of body would or would not be considered fit to impose a penalty? A lodge, a Rotary club, a mosque, a swingers' club? Are our Councillors so corporatist in their mindsets that they can see no line between the Council and the private political parties to which its current members owe allegiance? Would an independent Councillor be sent home to penalise himself?[/p][/quote]It would helpful if the actual process/procedure for dealing with corruption was available on-line so that the public had a fuller understanding of how matters like this are dealt with, rather than a 'committee' making independent descisions. Ever Watchful
  • Score: 0

2:37pm Tue 29 Jan 13

fabster says...

Local decision-makers trying to pressure decisions in favour of those who've voted them in - Why are people shocked?

Unfortunately, this is the trade-off when you rely on a particular 'voting bloc' to secure your votes in local politics, election after election.

It pains me to say, being a Lab voter & expired member, but the local party in WF needs to cast a critical eye on itself, ask some serious questions about how it has allowed the long-term complicity of voting blocs from communities to thwart our local democratic processes.

After all, it's a given: you don't get something for nothing. Never mind again and again.

So whilst it is not right, it would be churlish to pretend decisions made, implicit or otherwise, in favour of certain bods do not go on. To downplay this is disingenuous, given it norm practice for Councillors to 'do deals' in order to gain nominations in the first place.

The crux of the matter however relates more to the electoral results in Waltham Forest: When analysing recent population breakdowns of the borough, taking into account the new influx of residents the past few years reflected in the census, we are in actual fact currently over-represented by middle-aged male Pakistani/Muslim Councillors.

This, per se, is not an issue. Let me be clear, lest my point gets misread.

It is squarely on the part of the Lab party whose complacency has resulted in this sorry state of disrepute by remaining passive and not challenging the rise of certain Senior Cllrs & Leaders (regardless of their skin colour to be clear) who are known within ranks to continuously bring the Council & its party members embarrassment in one form or another.

Fortunately from my personal observation and from what I've heard, there are noticeable exceptions happening slowly. A few young female dynamic Asian Cllrs are emerging out of their elder's shadows to make up their own minds on local matters, refusing to be pressured by 'pressure groups', for lack of a better word.

This is a significant step which we should encourage. Given our demographic is shifting and an older generation of Cllrs are nearing their sell-by dates (Loakes, Robbins, Liaquat: yes I am looking at you), I sincerely hope things will improve, with a higher level of transparency and accountability in the party and consequently the Council.

There are some horrible comments on here, by the way. Really not nice. I hope mine is not misconstrued as such.
Local decision-makers trying to pressure decisions in favour of those who've voted them in - Why are people shocked? Unfortunately, this is the trade-off when you rely on a particular 'voting bloc' to secure your votes in local politics, election after election. It pains me to say, being a Lab voter & expired member, but the local party in WF needs to cast a critical eye on itself, ask some serious questions about how it has allowed the long-term complicity of voting blocs from communities to thwart our local democratic processes. After all, it's a given: you don't get something for nothing. Never mind again and again. So whilst it is not right, it would be churlish to pretend decisions made, implicit or otherwise, in favour of certain bods do not go on. To downplay this is disingenuous, given it norm practice for Councillors to 'do deals' in order to gain nominations in the first place. The crux of the matter however relates more to the electoral results in Waltham Forest: When analysing recent population breakdowns of the borough, taking into account the new influx of residents the past few years reflected in the census, we are in actual fact currently over-represented by middle-aged male Pakistani/Muslim Councillors. This, per se, is not an issue. Let me be clear, lest my point gets misread. It is squarely on the part of the Lab party whose complacency has resulted in this sorry state of disrepute by remaining passive and not challenging the rise of certain Senior Cllrs & Leaders (regardless of their skin colour to be clear) who are known within ranks to continuously bring the Council & its party members embarrassment in one form or another. Fortunately from my personal observation and from what I've heard, there are noticeable exceptions happening slowly. A few young female dynamic Asian Cllrs are emerging out of their elder's shadows to make up their own minds on local matters, refusing to be pressured by 'pressure groups', for lack of a better word. This is a significant step which we should encourage. Given our demographic is shifting and an older generation of Cllrs are nearing their sell-by dates (Loakes, Robbins, Liaquat: yes I am looking at you), I sincerely hope things will improve, with a higher level of transparency and accountability in the party and consequently the Council. There are some horrible comments on here, by the way. Really not nice. I hope mine is not misconstrued as such. fabster
  • Score: 0

3:19pm Tue 29 Jan 13

Walthamster says...

fabster wrote:
Local decision-makers trying to pressure decisions in favour of those who've voted them in - Why are people shocked?

Unfortunately, this is the trade-off when you rely on a particular 'voting bloc' to secure your votes in local politics, election after election.

It pains me to say, being a Lab voter & expired member, but the local party in WF needs to cast a critical eye on itself, ask some serious questions about how it has allowed the long-term complicity of voting blocs from communities to thwart our local democratic processes.

After all, it's a given: you don't get something for nothing. Never mind again and again.

So whilst it is not right, it would be churlish to pretend decisions made, implicit or otherwise, in favour of certain bods do not go on. To downplay this is disingenuous, given it norm practice for Councillors to 'do deals' in order to gain nominations in the first place.

The crux of the matter however relates more to the electoral results in Waltham Forest: When analysing recent population breakdowns of the borough, taking into account the new influx of residents the past few years reflected in the census, we are in actual fact currently over-represented by middle-aged male Pakistani/Muslim Councillors.

This, per se, is not an issue. Let me be clear, lest my point gets misread.

It is squarely on the part of the Lab party whose complacency has resulted in this sorry state of disrepute by remaining passive and not challenging the rise of certain Senior Cllrs & Leaders (regardless of their skin colour to be clear) who are known within ranks to continuously bring the Council & its party members embarrassment in one form or another.

Fortunately from my personal observation and from what I've heard, there are noticeable exceptions happening slowly. A few young female dynamic Asian Cllrs are emerging out of their elder's shadows to make up their own minds on local matters, refusing to be pressured by 'pressure groups', for lack of a better word.

This is a significant step which we should encourage. Given our demographic is shifting and an older generation of Cllrs are nearing their sell-by dates (Loakes, Robbins, Liaquat: yes I am looking at you), I sincerely hope things will improve, with a higher level of transparency and accountability in the party and consequently the Council.

There are some horrible comments on here, by the way. Really not nice. I hope mine is not misconstrued as such.
I don't think your posting will be misconstrued by anyone who reads it in full, fabster, especially if they know anything about this borough.

Facing up to what goes on here is difficult and even painful.

As a society we want minorities to have an equal chance. That principle is a good thing. But it's become clear that some people take advantage of it in harmful ways. We're being dishonest, and even complicit in this abuse, if we stick our fingers in our ears and refuse to believe it.
[quote][p][bold]fabster[/bold] wrote: Local decision-makers trying to pressure decisions in favour of those who've voted them in - Why are people shocked? Unfortunately, this is the trade-off when you rely on a particular 'voting bloc' to secure your votes in local politics, election after election. It pains me to say, being a Lab voter & expired member, but the local party in WF needs to cast a critical eye on itself, ask some serious questions about how it has allowed the long-term complicity of voting blocs from communities to thwart our local democratic processes. After all, it's a given: you don't get something for nothing. Never mind again and again. So whilst it is not right, it would be churlish to pretend decisions made, implicit or otherwise, in favour of certain bods do not go on. To downplay this is disingenuous, given it norm practice for Councillors to 'do deals' in order to gain nominations in the first place. The crux of the matter however relates more to the electoral results in Waltham Forest: When analysing recent population breakdowns of the borough, taking into account the new influx of residents the past few years reflected in the census, we are in actual fact currently over-represented by middle-aged male Pakistani/Muslim Councillors. This, per se, is not an issue. Let me be clear, lest my point gets misread. It is squarely on the part of the Lab party whose complacency has resulted in this sorry state of disrepute by remaining passive and not challenging the rise of certain Senior Cllrs & Leaders (regardless of their skin colour to be clear) who are known within ranks to continuously bring the Council & its party members embarrassment in one form or another. Fortunately from my personal observation and from what I've heard, there are noticeable exceptions happening slowly. A few young female dynamic Asian Cllrs are emerging out of their elder's shadows to make up their own minds on local matters, refusing to be pressured by 'pressure groups', for lack of a better word. This is a significant step which we should encourage. Given our demographic is shifting and an older generation of Cllrs are nearing their sell-by dates (Loakes, Robbins, Liaquat: yes I am looking at you), I sincerely hope things will improve, with a higher level of transparency and accountability in the party and consequently the Council. There are some horrible comments on here, by the way. Really not nice. I hope mine is not misconstrued as such.[/p][/quote]I don't think your posting will be misconstrued by anyone who reads it in full, fabster, especially if they know anything about this borough. Facing up to what goes on here is difficult and even painful. As a society we want minorities to have an equal chance. That principle is a good thing. But it's become clear that some people take advantage of it in harmful ways. We're being dishonest, and even complicit in this abuse, if we stick our fingers in our ears and refuse to believe it. Walthamster
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