Row over Halal meat at Larkswood Primary School in Chingford

East London and West Essex Guardian Series: Row over Halal meat at school Row over Halal meat at school

Parents have reacted with outrage over plans to start serving only Halal meat to school pupils.


Management at Larkswood Primary in New Road, Chingford, will stop providing meat slaughtered using 'standard' methods and replace it with food which is prepared according to the rituals of Islam from mid-April.


Parents told the Guardian they had no objection to Muslim children practising their faith and eating Halal meat at the school.


But said they did not want such religious beliefs imposed on their own offspring.


They also claim not to have been given an explanation for the sudden change and say less than 10 per cent of children at Larkswood are Muslim.

Headteacher Lynne Harrowell said most schools in London served Halal meat and that parents were consulted but the majority did not express a preference.

She was unable to provide details how many voted for or against the plans.


Tina Hill, 48, who has an eight-year-old son at the school, said: “Why should their views be forced on us? I think it's disgusting.


“As parents we should be given a choice what our children eat.


“I do not want my child eating food which has been slaughtered in this way and blessed.


“I am so angry about it I would consider taking my son out of Larkswood.”

She said the consultation letter was unclear and many parents had assumed Halal was being added as an option and not as the only type of meat that would be served.


Halal meat is prepared by draining all the blood from the animal, and workers must recite the name of Allah during the slaughtering process. Pork is also forbidden.
 

Several parents told the Guardian they were strongly against the plans but were too afraid to speak out for fear of being branded racist.


A 32-year-old mum-of-three said: “I don't understand why they can't have Halal meat as an option, I think everyone would be happy with that.


“We haven't been told why they want to do this, but some parents suspect it is because Halal meat is cheaper and will save the school money.


“I am very angry about it and I will stop my child having hot school dinners if they do go ahead with this. I'll give him a packed lunch instead.”
 

A 28-year-old mum added: “I think it's unfair when it's only a small minority of the school who are Muslim."

Ms Harrowell said: "It is in line with the majority of other schools in London and in Waltham Forest.

"Most of New Zealand lamb is Halal, as is the meat in many restaurants and fast food places like KFC. Many people are very aware that most of us eat Halal meat.

"We have an inclusive school and I've only had two complaints, and those parents were very happy we are also having more fish on the menu."

Comments (110)

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4:12pm Fri 22 Mar 13

ruby newbie says...

what about kosher?..........dis
crimination id say........
what about kosher?..........dis crimination id say........ ruby newbie
  • Score: 6

4:35pm Fri 22 Mar 13

Trevor 2 says...

Simple answer. Go vegetarian!!
Simple answer. Go vegetarian!! Trevor 2
  • Score: -8

5:01pm Fri 22 Mar 13

Cornbeefur says...

It is wrong to force people to eat animal products from animals that have been slaughtered inhumanely without stunning.

If anyone say that programme Kill It Cooks It Eats it all the programme showed what went on in slaughter houses and whilst I generally try the Vegetarian Diet, If I di eat meat more, would prefer to eat foof from animals killed by the methods shown in that programme than the brutal slaughter by Muslims of animals who slit their throats from ear to ear whilst chanting prayers which must frighten the animals.
It is wrong to force people to eat animal products from animals that have been slaughtered inhumanely without stunning. If anyone say that programme Kill It Cooks It Eats it all the programme showed what went on in slaughter houses and whilst I generally try the Vegetarian Diet, If I di eat meat more, would prefer to eat foof from animals killed by the methods shown in that programme than the brutal slaughter by Muslims of animals who slit their throats from ear to ear whilst chanting prayers which must frighten the animals. Cornbeefur
  • Score: 16

5:07pm Fri 22 Mar 13

ruby newbie says...

strange you should call your self "cornbeefer then".....or is that because you are full of "c**p"....
strange you should call your self "cornbeefer then".....or is that because you are full of "c**p".... ruby newbie
  • Score: -9

5:08pm Fri 22 Mar 13

ruby newbie says...

although i do agree with you on this one
although i do agree with you on this one ruby newbie
  • Score: 0

5:45pm Fri 22 Mar 13

Alan_1976 says...

This does seem quite ridiculous
This does seem quite ridiculous Alan_1976
  • Score: 4

6:53pm Fri 22 Mar 13

mdj says...

No bacon, then? No sausages? Can someone explain what makes halal meat cheaper, if it comes from the same farms?
No bacon, then? No sausages? Can someone explain what makes halal meat cheaper, if it comes from the same farms? mdj
  • Score: 3

7:38pm Fri 22 Mar 13

Alan_1976 says...

mdj wrote:
No bacon, then? No sausages? Can someone explain what makes halal meat cheaper, if it comes from the same farms?
I was doing some research around this and apparently 90% of Halal meat is prepared where the animal is stunned first.

http://www.guardian.
co.uk/theguardian/20
10/sep/20/halal-meat
-the-truth

So no cost savings there. I think the most likely explanation for it being cheaper has nothing to do with the killing method and more to do with the fact that the production methods they are using are cheaper which can't be a good thing for the quality of the food.

I would be more concerned as you say about why the meat is cheap irrespective of the killing method.
[quote][p][bold]mdj[/bold] wrote: No bacon, then? No sausages? Can someone explain what makes halal meat cheaper, if it comes from the same farms?[/p][/quote]I was doing some research around this and apparently 90% of Halal meat is prepared where the animal is stunned first. http://www.guardian. co.uk/theguardian/20 10/sep/20/halal-meat -the-truth So no cost savings there. I think the most likely explanation for it being cheaper has nothing to do with the killing method and more to do with the fact that the production methods they are using are cheaper which can't be a good thing for the quality of the food. I would be more concerned as you say about why the meat is cheap irrespective of the killing method. Alan_1976
  • Score: -3

8:56am Sat 23 Mar 13

myopinioncounts says...

At least this school has declared that it is introducing halal meat. At least one other school did so secretly so that only certain members of staff and muslim parents were told. Outrageous that the Head was so arrogant as to say that it was not necessary to inform all parents.
The school cook said that the meat was more expensive to buy not cheaper.
At least this school has declared that it is introducing halal meat. At least one other school did so secretly so that only certain members of staff and muslim parents were told. Outrageous that the Head was so arrogant as to say that it was not necessary to inform all parents. The school cook said that the meat was more expensive to buy not cheaper. myopinioncounts
  • Score: 6

9:03am Sat 23 Mar 13

myopinioncounts says...

Furthermore, the reason for having only halal meat is to simplify the serving of food to children - the 'dinner ladies' won't have to know which children are muslim and there is no risk of mixing up the food or cross contamination in the kitchen. Many muslims would not be happy for halal food to be prepared in the same kitchen as non halal and pressure is wrongly put on Head teachers to appease.
Furthermore, the reason for having only halal meat is to simplify the serving of food to children - the 'dinner ladies' won't have to know which children are muslim and there is no risk of mixing up the food or cross contamination in the kitchen. Many muslims would not be happy for halal food to be prepared in the same kitchen as non halal and pressure is wrongly put on Head teachers to appease. myopinioncounts
  • Score: 2

9:15am Sat 23 Mar 13

Alan_1976 says...

myopinioncounts wrote:
Furthermore, the reason for having only halal meat is to simplify the serving of food to children - the 'dinner ladies' won't have to know which children are muslim and there is no risk of mixing up the food or cross contamination in the kitchen. Many muslims would not be happy for halal food to be prepared in the same kitchen as non halal and pressure is wrongly put on Head teachers to appease.
By recent news stories I would suggest cross contamination may well have happened long before it reaches the kitchens...
[quote][p][bold]myopinioncounts[/bold] wrote: Furthermore, the reason for having only halal meat is to simplify the serving of food to children - the 'dinner ladies' won't have to know which children are muslim and there is no risk of mixing up the food or cross contamination in the kitchen. Many muslims would not be happy for halal food to be prepared in the same kitchen as non halal and pressure is wrongly put on Head teachers to appease.[/p][/quote]By recent news stories I would suggest cross contamination may well have happened long before it reaches the kitchens... Alan_1976
  • Score: 3

9:40am Sat 23 Mar 13

solcomm says...

I thought initially this must be an April fools thing but no we are still in March. This is so outrageously wrong, to encourage stepping back in time to kill creatures by knife is bonkers. Islam like all religions are man made way of observing rules of life. We are a secular society, if you want to practice that style of life then go to live in Saudi Arabia, but your female watch out!
I thought initially this must be an April fools thing but no we are still in March. This is so outrageously wrong, to encourage stepping back in time to kill creatures by knife is bonkers. Islam like all religions are man made way of observing rules of life. We are a secular society, if you want to practice that style of life then go to live in Saudi Arabia, but your female watch out! solcomm
  • Score: 7

10:23am Sat 23 Mar 13

ClifftonX says...

just another milestone along the road to the full Islamisation of the UK. The next thing will be to force the female children to cover their heads and the female staff to wear full burkhas. Think this is far fetched - well who would have thought 20 years ago that the only meat served in schools in LBWF would cater to muslims?

And by the way, the difference with Halal meat is not that a little "prayer is said", but that the animal has its thraot cut, and is bled, while it is still conscious. It is bled by raising it upside down with chains round its rear legs. Think of that with a cow. Lovely.
just another milestone along the road to the full Islamisation of the UK. The next thing will be to force the female children to cover their heads and the female staff to wear full burkhas. Think this is far fetched - well who would have thought 20 years ago that the only meat served in schools in LBWF would cater to muslims? And by the way, the difference with Halal meat is not that a little "prayer is said", but that the animal has its thraot cut, and is bled, while it is still conscious. It is bled by raising it upside down with chains round its rear legs. Think of that with a cow. Lovely. ClifftonX
  • Score: 10

12:07pm Sat 23 Mar 13

Snoogans says...

"just another milestone along the road to the full Islamisation of the UK. The next thing will be to force the female children to cover their heads and the female staff to wear full burkhas. "

You're deluded and this doesn't help the discussion.

10% seems a small minority for everyone to have to cater for. Maybe 80% doesn't care and its only the remaining 10% that do.

KFC and Nandos seem to be doing alright so people can't be that bothered how their meat is killed.

I find these issues often get out of control as people use them to mask their bigotry but that being said, 10%? They can take a pack lunch.
"just another milestone along the road to the full Islamisation of the UK. The next thing will be to force the female children to cover their heads and the female staff to wear full burkhas. " You're deluded and this doesn't help the discussion. 10% seems a small minority for everyone to have to cater for. Maybe 80% doesn't care and its only the remaining 10% that do. KFC and Nandos seem to be doing alright so people can't be that bothered how their meat is killed. I find these issues often get out of control as people use them to mask their bigotry but that being said, 10%? They can take a pack lunch. Snoogans
  • Score: -5

12:48pm Sat 23 Mar 13

J.Lee says...

Providing 2 types of food raises a whole host of logistical problems at the school.
In order to stop cross-contamination the two types of food will have to be prepared using separate pans and untensils. More work for the kitchen staff.
Those who want Helal food will need to be distinguished from those that don't. So how will this be done? Will the school issue badges to wear ?(reminds me a bit of the yellow stars that Jews were forced to wear in Germany, by the Nazis). I can hear people shouting "discrimination" already.already.
However, the non-Muslim children should not be forced to eat Helal meat.
I am a vegetarian and have been marginalised for years so I am used to it, but it seems that some minority groups get very touchy if their beliefs are called into question.
I wish the school joy in sorting this one out !
Providing 2 types of food raises a whole host of logistical problems at the school. In order to stop cross-contamination the two types of food will have to be prepared using separate pans and untensils. More work for the kitchen staff. Those who want Helal food will need to be distinguished from those that don't. So how will this be done? Will the school issue badges to wear ?(reminds me a bit of the yellow stars that Jews were forced to wear in Germany, by the Nazis). I can hear people shouting "discrimination" already.already. However, the non-Muslim children should not be forced to eat Helal meat. I am a vegetarian and have been marginalised for years so I am used to it, but it seems that some minority groups get very touchy if their beliefs are called into question. I wish the school joy in sorting this one out ! J.Lee
  • Score: 0

1:22pm Sat 23 Mar 13

Techno3 says...

J.Lee wrote:
Providing 2 types of food raises a whole host of logistical problems at the school.
In order to stop cross-contamination the two types of food will have to be prepared using separate pans and untensils. More work for the kitchen staff.
Those who want Helal food will need to be distinguished from those that don't. So how will this be done? Will the school issue badges to wear ?(reminds me a bit of the yellow stars that Jews were forced to wear in Germany, by the Nazis). I can hear people shouting "discrimination
" already.already.
However, the non-Muslim children should not be forced to eat Helal meat.
I am a vegetarian and have been marginalised for years so I am used to it, but it seems that some minority groups get very touchy if their beliefs are called into question.
I wish the school joy in sorting this one out !
All that is required is a sign next to the dish which is saying it is halal and another sign next to the dish which is not to say it is non halal, and for the person serving to actually speak to the person they are serving and find out what they want to eat. The muslims will onw whether they are muslim are not.

The servers should have a seperate spoon/spatula for each dish they are doling out in any event. Basic food hygene would require that.
[quote][p][bold]J.Lee[/bold] wrote: Providing 2 types of food raises a whole host of logistical problems at the school. In order to stop cross-contamination the two types of food will have to be prepared using separate pans and untensils. More work for the kitchen staff. Those who want Helal food will need to be distinguished from those that don't. So how will this be done? Will the school issue badges to wear ?(reminds me a bit of the yellow stars that Jews were forced to wear in Germany, by the Nazis). I can hear people shouting "discrimination " already.already. However, the non-Muslim children should not be forced to eat Helal meat. I am a vegetarian and have been marginalised for years so I am used to it, but it seems that some minority groups get very touchy if their beliefs are called into question. I wish the school joy in sorting this one out ![/p][/quote]All that is required is a sign next to the dish which is saying it is halal and another sign next to the dish which is not to say it is non halal, and for the person serving to actually speak to the person they are serving and find out what they want to eat. The muslims will onw whether they are muslim are not. The servers should have a seperate spoon/spatula for each dish they are doling out in any event. Basic food hygene would require that. Techno3
  • Score: 1

4:36pm Sat 23 Mar 13

SpursSupporter1 says...

If i was too say exactly what i think about this subject id be branded a racist but for goodness sake what the **** heck is going on in England????? I didnt think i moved from Ireland too London 24 years ago too a Muslim run state come on Government and Council sort your priorites out it is England we are living in after all, my children are in secondary schools and if this was too happen in their schools then i would have no hesitation in removing them from the said school in question
If i was too say exactly what i think about this subject id be branded a racist but for goodness sake what the **** heck is going on in England????? I didnt think i moved from Ireland too London 24 years ago too a Muslim run state come on Government and Council sort your priorites out it is England we are living in after all, my children are in secondary schools and if this was too happen in their schools then i would have no hesitation in removing them from the said school in question SpursSupporter1
  • Score: 11

4:43pm Sat 23 Mar 13

Alan_1976 says...

SpursSupporter1 wrote:
If i was too say exactly what i think about this subject id be branded a racist but for goodness sake what the **** heck is going on in England????? I didnt think i moved from Ireland too London 24 years ago too a Muslim run state come on Government and Council sort your priorites out it is England we are living in after all, my children are in secondary schools and if this was too happen in their schools then i would have no hesitation in removing them from the said school in question
I don't think anyone could justifiably call anyone racist for objecting to the way their children's food is prepared.
[quote][p][bold]SpursSupporter1[/bold] wrote: If i was too say exactly what i think about this subject id be branded a racist but for goodness sake what the **** heck is going on in England????? I didnt think i moved from Ireland too London 24 years ago too a Muslim run state come on Government and Council sort your priorites out it is England we are living in after all, my children are in secondary schools and if this was too happen in their schools then i would have no hesitation in removing them from the said school in question[/p][/quote]I don't think anyone could justifiably call anyone racist for objecting to the way their children's food is prepared. Alan_1976
  • Score: 7

5:12pm Sat 23 Mar 13

Walthamster says...

I am disturbed that the head says "It is in line with the majority of other schools in London and in Waltham Forest. ...Many people are very aware that most of us eat Halal meat."

I certainly didn't know this and am shocked if this is true. Can Daniel Binns get a statement from the education department, please?

As for the meat being cheaper, have people learned nothing from the recent food-contamination scandal? If the price of meat is too good to be true, you have to ask what's in it!
I am disturbed that the head says "It is in line with the majority of other schools in London and in Waltham Forest. ...Many people are very aware that most of us eat Halal meat." I certainly didn't know this and am shocked if this is true. Can Daniel Binns get a statement from the education department, please? As for the meat being cheaper, have people learned nothing from the recent food-contamination scandal? If the price of meat is too good to be true, you have to ask what's in it! Walthamster
  • Score: 4

6:25pm Sat 23 Mar 13

Ever Watchful says...

I'm not clear why head teachers of most London schools want to offer Halal-only meat dishes, and are not keen to support inclusiveness by integrating the food preferences of other cultures and beliefs.
I'm not clear why head teachers of most London schools want to offer Halal-only meat dishes, and are not keen to support inclusiveness by integrating the food preferences of other cultures and beliefs. Ever Watchful
  • Score: 1

7:18pm Sat 23 Mar 13

Nairn says...

I seem to remember something a few years ago about LBWF saying that meat in school meals would be Halal and I have to say, I thought this has been the situation for 3? 4? years?

Or was it in regards to where the LBWF school meals service provides meals to schools without full kitchens - ie. those that only re-heat the meals rather than cook from scratch??

Can anyone remember?
I seem to remember something a few years ago about LBWF saying that meat in school meals would be Halal and I have to say, I thought this has been the situation for 3? 4? years? Or was it in regards to where the LBWF school meals service provides meals to schools without full kitchens - ie. those that only re-heat the meals rather than cook from scratch?? Can anyone remember? Nairn
  • Score: -1

8:09pm Sat 23 Mar 13

jamjay1972 says...

Is Xmas still uncertain? I've read about a so-called master race that sought to ban Xmas. It is certainly high time we sought to redefine the word 'fascist' in modern England.
Is Xmas still uncertain? I've read about a so-called master race that sought to ban Xmas. It is certainly high time we sought to redefine the word 'fascist' in modern England. jamjay1972
  • Score: 0

9:13pm Sat 23 Mar 13

SpursSupporter1 says...

I just dont know what too think any more to be honest
I just dont know what too think any more to be honest SpursSupporter1
  • Score: -1

9:21pm Sat 23 Mar 13

Tom Billesley says...

The slaughter of animals by Jewish and Muslim religiously dictated methods is allowed in Britain by an exemption to the Welfare of Animals (Slaughter or Killing) Regulations 1995

Schedule 12 of these regulations states
"In this Schedule references to slaughter by a religious method are references to slaughter without the infliction of unnecessary suffering—
(a) by the Jewish method for the food of Jews by a Jew who holds a licence in accordance with Schedule 1.....
(b) by the Muslim method for the food of Muslims by a Muslim who holds a licence in accordance with Schedule 1......"

Thus the exemption is only provided to cater for the religious minorities, and slaughter of animals to knowingly provide kosher meat to non-Jews and halal meat to non-Muslims is to my mind a breach of the regulations and therefore illegal slaughter.

The UK government no longer keeps statistics on religious slaughter, How convenient for them - no published evidence to compare the proportion of animals slaughtered by religious methods and the proportion of those religions in the population.
The slaughter of animals by Jewish and Muslim religiously dictated methods is allowed in Britain by an exemption to the Welfare of Animals (Slaughter or Killing) Regulations 1995 Schedule 12 of these regulations states "In this Schedule references to slaughter by a religious method are references to slaughter without the infliction of unnecessary suffering— (a) by the Jewish method for the food of Jews by a Jew who holds a licence in accordance with Schedule 1..... (b) by the Muslim method for the food of Muslims by a Muslim who holds a licence in accordance with Schedule 1......" Thus the exemption is only provided to cater for the religious minorities, and slaughter of animals to knowingly provide kosher meat to non-Jews and halal meat to non-Muslims is to my mind a breach of the regulations and therefore illegal slaughter. The UK government no longer keeps statistics on religious slaughter, How convenient for them - no published evidence to compare the proportion of animals slaughtered by religious methods and the proportion of those religions in the population. Tom Billesley
  • Score: 6

10:49pm Sat 23 Mar 13

legseleven says...

All of this faith stuff is one sided. If you raise reasonable questions about the you are seen to be anti-whatever, and as an unbeliever (or khaffir) my views are automatically dismissed. The practices of a non halal slaughterhouse are quite shocking, but the desert tribal ritual way of the Shochet/whatever the muslim equivelent is barbaric. has anyone had the misfortune to see the videos of the people killed by insurgents, it is practically the same procedure. I believe they do it this way for their deity.
All of this faith stuff is one sided. If you raise reasonable questions about the you are seen to be anti-whatever, and as an unbeliever (or khaffir) my views are automatically dismissed. The practices of a non halal slaughterhouse are quite shocking, but the desert tribal ritual way of the Shochet/whatever the muslim equivelent is barbaric. has anyone had the misfortune to see the videos of the people killed by insurgents, it is practically the same procedure. I believe they do it this way for their deity. legseleven
  • Score: 0

11:36pm Sat 23 Mar 13

ColinOrient says...

It seems the school menus are now the latest thing to add to this country's defaced situation. How can it be right that parents are over-ridden by these power-hungry idiots who forcing children to eat halal food, if they want a school meal? When will the line be drawn - the next thing could be people from other parts of the globe demanding cat or dog are put on the menu, just like 'back home'. Sadly, any objectors are naturally now slammed down as bigots or racists, to the point where the power-crazed fools in local or national government can then never be wrong.
It seems the school menus are now the latest thing to add to this country's defaced situation. How can it be right that parents are over-ridden by these power-hungry idiots who forcing children to eat halal food, if they want a school meal? When will the line be drawn - the next thing could be people from other parts of the globe demanding cat or dog are put on the menu, just like 'back home'. Sadly, any objectors are naturally now slammed down as bigots or racists, to the point where the power-crazed fools in local or national government can then never be wrong. ColinOrient
  • Score: 6

12:41am Sun 24 Mar 13

Redbridge person says...

Aaaah....it is known as: Diversity, Multi culti and Inclusive....of course the needs and wants of a minority will be pushed by white middle class trendy lefties....they will have us all in burqas if they could....not fantasy...a real threat.
Aaaah....it is known as: Diversity, Multi culti and Inclusive....of course the needs and wants of a minority will be pushed by white middle class trendy lefties....they will have us all in burqas if they could....not fantasy...a real threat. Redbridge person
  • Score: 4

1:36am Sun 24 Mar 13

Kestral1410 says...

Sorry but this really has got to stop! This is the UK and I do not ever want to eat halal or wear a burka. I went to Larkswood and cannot believe the situation redbridge is getting into! Stick to british ways and if anyone doesn't like it let them take a packed lunch, simples!
Sorry but this really has got to stop! This is the UK and I do not ever want to eat halal or wear a burka. I went to Larkswood and cannot believe the situation redbridge is getting into! Stick to british ways and if anyone doesn't like it let them take a packed lunch, simples! Kestral1410
  • Score: 2

9:52am Sun 24 Mar 13

Overlandandsea says...

What is happening in our country is a disgrace and illegal. In 2009, the World Halal Forum chose the UK as it’s ‘pilot project’ to roll out halal to the mainstream consumer.
Then in 2010 WHF said that it will “Take Halal Mainstream in UK and then Europe”
No one from the UK was at this meeting and was not known or agreed by the British people! When MPs found they were being served halal in the House of Commons they kicked up a fuss and it was stopped! What about the rest of us??? THIS IS BEING IMPOSED ON US & WE DO NOT LIKE OR WANT MUSLIM MEAT OR HALAL PRODUCTS & SERVICES!
Non muslim children should definitely NOT be forcefed halal. It is outrageous.
In the UK the Licence of Exemption was already in place and should have protected us from the massive over-production of halal meat that we now have in the UK. It is clear. Nobody in power cares about us or our children!!

The Licence from exemption from full stunning under UK law states quite clearly that it is an offence to slaughter by a religious method if it is known that the meat is not intended for the consumption of those religions who ‘require’ it. It clearly states this exemption to allow unstunned meat is for the Jews to produce kosher meat for Jews & for Muslim slaughtermen to perform their ritual slaughter to provide halal meat for muslims -
Nowhere does it state that this exemption can be used for mainstream supply of ‘RS’ Religiously Slaughtered unstunned meat… so WHY do ASDA, Sainsbury & other supermarket chains, now have Halal Counters? Write to ASDA and they will proudly tell you that they are selling UNSTUNNED HALAL MEAT on their Halal World Counters throughout Britain. Surely this is breaking the law?
What is happening in our country is a disgrace and illegal. In 2009, the World Halal Forum chose the UK as it’s ‘pilot project’ to roll out halal to the mainstream consumer. Then in 2010 WHF said that it will “Take Halal Mainstream in UK and then Europe” No one from the UK was at this meeting and was not known or agreed by the British people! When MPs found they were being served halal in the House of Commons they kicked up a fuss and it was stopped! What about the rest of us??? THIS IS BEING IMPOSED ON US & WE DO NOT LIKE OR WANT MUSLIM MEAT OR HALAL PRODUCTS & SERVICES! Non muslim children should definitely NOT be forcefed halal. It is outrageous. In the UK the Licence of Exemption was already in place and should have protected us from the massive over-production of halal meat that we now have in the UK. It is clear. Nobody in power cares about us or our children!! The Licence from exemption from full stunning under UK law states quite clearly that it is an offence to slaughter by a religious method if it is known that the meat is not intended for the consumption of those religions who ‘require’ it. It clearly states this exemption to allow unstunned meat is for the Jews to produce kosher meat for Jews & for Muslim slaughtermen to perform their ritual slaughter to provide halal meat for muslims - Nowhere does it state that this exemption can be used for mainstream supply of ‘RS’ Religiously Slaughtered unstunned meat… so WHY do ASDA, Sainsbury & other supermarket chains, now have Halal Counters? Write to ASDA and they will proudly tell you that they are selling UNSTUNNED HALAL MEAT on their Halal World Counters throughout Britain. Surely this is breaking the law? Overlandandsea
  • Score: 8

10:26am Sun 24 Mar 13

Overlandandsea says...

Muslims have found a loophole which is allowing them to call Electro-immobilisati
on – ‘Stun-to-Immobilis
e’ - - and from this people assume they mean Electrical Stunning which IT IS NOT!
Stun-to-Immobilise is performed by using Ultra Low Stunning for halal ritual slaughter i.e. the ‘Dimmer Switch’ is turned to the lowest setting!

Electro-immobilisati
on means the animal is stunned JUST ENOUGH TO IMMOBILIZE. It is still fully conscious, just unable to move or vocalise its pain. I am vegetarian because I was disgusted how animals suffer in factory farming but this is worse and totally unnecessary or wanted in 21st century GREAT BRITAIN and EUROPE. We should be moving forward with stopping animals from suffering not going back to 7th century Islam practice.

Do not be frightened that people will be brand you racist. Islam IS NOT A RACE. It is political, totalitarian. The Only Way is Islam!! Stand up for your children. Get a petition going at Larkswood and Chingford, and spread the word what is happening in the UK and Europe because so many are not aware. Stand up before it is too late. All the big companies are being blackmailed into paying huge sums for halal certification. There are less and less products that are not halal certified for us to buy and it is funding God knows what; how do we know where the money is ending up? ASK YOURSELVES WHY IS THIS HAPPENING IN THE UK AND EUROPE AND WHERE WILL IT END? Mosques and supermosques are all over the UK there will never be enough until Islam is dominant in non muslim countries. Too many people just shut their eyes to what is happening or don't know. Now it involves your children being forcefed halal like so many schools across the country, it is time for CHINGFORD TO STAND UP AND BE COUNTED. If my child was at the school I would be kicking up a fuss like these parents. I applaud them.
Muslims have found a loophole which is allowing them to call Electro-immobilisati on – ‘Stun-to-Immobilis e’ - - and from this people assume they mean Electrical Stunning which IT IS NOT! Stun-to-Immobilise is performed by using Ultra Low Stunning for halal ritual slaughter i.e. the ‘Dimmer Switch’ is turned to the lowest setting! Electro-immobilisati on means the animal is stunned JUST ENOUGH TO IMMOBILIZE. It is still fully conscious, just unable to move or vocalise its pain. I am vegetarian because I was disgusted how animals suffer in factory farming but this is worse and totally unnecessary or wanted in 21st century GREAT BRITAIN and EUROPE. We should be moving forward with stopping animals from suffering not going back to 7th century Islam practice. Do not be frightened that people will be brand you racist. Islam IS NOT A RACE. It is political, totalitarian. The Only Way is Islam!! Stand up for your children. Get a petition going at Larkswood and Chingford, and spread the word what is happening in the UK and Europe because so many are not aware. Stand up before it is too late. All the big companies are being blackmailed into paying huge sums for halal certification. There are less and less products that are not halal certified for us to buy and it is funding God knows what; how do we know where the money is ending up? ASK YOURSELVES WHY IS THIS HAPPENING IN THE UK AND EUROPE AND WHERE WILL IT END? Mosques and supermosques are all over the UK there will never be enough until Islam is dominant in non muslim countries. Too many people just shut their eyes to what is happening or don't know. Now it involves your children being forcefed halal like so many schools across the country, it is time for CHINGFORD TO STAND UP AND BE COUNTED. If my child was at the school I would be kicking up a fuss like these parents. I applaud them. Overlandandsea
  • Score: 3

11:51am Sun 24 Mar 13

Walthamster says...

Overlandandsea, thanks for the information about "stun to immobilise". This makes sense, as a way of getting around our animal-welfare laws.

I'd often wondered how these animals could be unconscious before slaughter, as some halal supporters have claimed, when the religion requires the animal to be conscious.

We understand "stunned" to mean unconscious, when in this case it just means unable to move. Convenient for the killers, but even more horrific for the animal. It seems "humane halal slaughter" cannot exist.

Scotland For Animals seems to be one of the few animal welfare groups fighting this.

http://blog.scotland
foranimals.org/#cate
gory7
Overlandandsea, thanks for the information about "stun to immobilise". This makes sense, as a way of getting around our animal-welfare laws. I'd often wondered how these animals could be unconscious before slaughter, as some halal supporters have claimed, when the religion requires the animal to be conscious. We understand "stunned" to mean unconscious, when in this case it just means unable to move. Convenient for the killers, but even more horrific for the animal. It seems "humane halal slaughter" cannot exist. Scotland For Animals seems to be one of the few animal welfare groups fighting this. http://blog.scotland foranimals.org/#cate gory7 Walthamster
  • Score: 1

12:09pm Sun 24 Mar 13

Walthamster says...

In 2011 the EU Council of Ministers "rejected calls for legislation on ... labelling of non-stunned, ritually slaughtered meat."
Lots more information at
http://blog.scotland
foranimals.org/#cate
gory7

There's more at
http://www.secularne
wsdaily.com/2012/05/
barbaric-halal-and-k
osher-butchering-now
-commonplace-in-brit
ain/

A halal website campaigning against the stunning of animals before slaughter makes it clear that the animals are not unconscious: http://www.unstunned
halal.com/stunning.h
tml
In 2011 the EU Council of Ministers "rejected calls for legislation on ... labelling of non-stunned, ritually slaughtered meat." Lots more information at http://blog.scotland foranimals.org/#cate gory7 There's more at http://www.secularne wsdaily.com/2012/05/ barbaric-halal-and-k osher-butchering-now -commonplace-in-brit ain/ A halal website campaigning against the stunning of animals before slaughter makes it clear that the animals are not unconscious: http://www.unstunned halal.com/stunning.h tml Walthamster
  • Score: 1

12:25pm Sun 24 Mar 13

Walthamster says...

Tom Billesley wrote:
The slaughter of animals by Jewish and Muslim religiously dictated methods is allowed in Britain by an exemption to the Welfare of Animals (Slaughter or Killing) Regulations 1995

Schedule 12 of these regulations states
"In this Schedule references to slaughter by a religious method are references to slaughter without the infliction of unnecessary suffering—
(a) by the Jewish method for the food of Jews by a Jew who holds a licence in accordance with Schedule 1.....
(b) by the Muslim method for the food of Muslims by a Muslim who holds a licence in accordance with Schedule 1......"

Thus the exemption is only provided to cater for the religious minorities, and slaughter of animals to knowingly provide kosher meat to non-Jews and halal meat to non-Muslims is to my mind a breach of the regulations and therefore illegal slaughter.

The UK government no longer keeps statistics on religious slaughter, How convenient for them - no published evidence to compare the proportion of animals slaughtered by religious methods and the proportion of those religions in the population.
I think you're right, Tom, it looks as if halal meat is being illegally sold and used.

Here's the Welfare of Animals (Slaughter or Killing) Regulations 1995:
http://www.legislati
on.gov.uk/uksi/1995/
731/schedule/12/made


It says meat can be slaughtered "by the Muslim method FOR THE FOOD OF MUSLIMS by a Muslim who holds a licence in accordance with Schedule 1." (The same goes for kosher food, substitute Jew for Muslim.)

So halal meat can only legally be slaughtered for Muslims. Are schools buying and supermarkets selling it illegally?

Or are they bringing it in from abroad to undermine Uk animal-welfare laws?
[quote][p][bold]Tom Billesley[/bold] wrote: The slaughter of animals by Jewish and Muslim religiously dictated methods is allowed in Britain by an exemption to the Welfare of Animals (Slaughter or Killing) Regulations 1995 Schedule 12 of these regulations states "In this Schedule references to slaughter by a religious method are references to slaughter without the infliction of unnecessary suffering— (a) by the Jewish method for the food of Jews by a Jew who holds a licence in accordance with Schedule 1..... (b) by the Muslim method for the food of Muslims by a Muslim who holds a licence in accordance with Schedule 1......" Thus the exemption is only provided to cater for the religious minorities, and slaughter of animals to knowingly provide kosher meat to non-Jews and halal meat to non-Muslims is to my mind a breach of the regulations and therefore illegal slaughter. The UK government no longer keeps statistics on religious slaughter, How convenient for them - no published evidence to compare the proportion of animals slaughtered by religious methods and the proportion of those religions in the population.[/p][/quote]I think you're right, Tom, it looks as if halal meat is being illegally sold and used. Here's the Welfare of Animals (Slaughter or Killing) Regulations 1995: http://www.legislati on.gov.uk/uksi/1995/ 731/schedule/12/made It says meat can be slaughtered "by the Muslim method FOR THE FOOD OF MUSLIMS by a Muslim who holds a licence in accordance with Schedule 1." (The same goes for kosher food, substitute Jew for Muslim.) So halal meat can only legally be slaughtered for Muslims. Are schools buying and supermarkets selling it illegally? Or are they bringing it in from abroad to undermine Uk animal-welfare laws? Walthamster
  • Score: 1

12:31pm Sun 24 Mar 13

Ever Watchful says...

It would be interesting to know what the governors of the school feel about this.
It would be interesting to know what the governors of the school feel about this. Ever Watchful
  • Score: 1

1:18pm Sun 24 Mar 13

Walthamster says...

http://www.independe
nt.co.uk/life-style/
food-and-drink/news/
new-eu-rules-require
-compulsory-labellin
g-of-halal-meat-2006
114.html

Apparently labelling will soon be legally required under EU law.
http://www.independe nt.co.uk/life-style/ food-and-drink/news/ new-eu-rules-require -compulsory-labellin g-of-halal-meat-2006 114.html Apparently labelling will soon be legally required under EU law. Walthamster
  • Score: 1

1:55pm Sun 24 Mar 13

Overlandandsea says...

We need to write to the Guardian Letters page and put all these concerns and information. Also write to Larkswood school and if nothing else comes of it at least the Head will get information on the whole subject and also the parents will be getting some support. This cannot be swept under the carpet. Written to MPs regarding this in the past, nobody seems to want to stand up for non muslims.
We need to write to the Guardian Letters page and put all these concerns and information. Also write to Larkswood school and if nothing else comes of it at least the Head will get information on the whole subject and also the parents will be getting some support. This cannot be swept under the carpet. Written to MPs regarding this in the past, nobody seems to want to stand up for non muslims. Overlandandsea
  • Score: 0

2:03pm Sun 24 Mar 13

Overlandandsea says...

Boycott Halal Facebook group, has done a tremendous amount of research into this.
Islam is introducing shariah into our society via halal products & services… this is a Stealth Jihad in the West. Halal food, food prepared according to Islamic shariah law, is becoming an increasing part of the Western diet and has become a multi-billion dollar global industry involving Farming, Food Processing, Catering, Pharmaceuticals, Trade & Finance.
Cast-offs from the halal meat industry that do not meet the standard for Certification requirements are discarded unlabelled into the mainstream food chain. Halal products are increasingly aimed at Non-Muslim markets.
Well-known brands and chains have been targeted and challenged to alter their traditional recipes in order to comply with halal standards. Undercover investigations have found that the halal industry is increasingly controlled by organizations belonging to the Muslim brotherhood.
When consumers buy Halal food, part of the price paid goes as a fee to Halal Islamic experts who devoutly pay Zakat Tax on their income – one-eighth of which funds Islamic Freedom Fighters… in other words Islamic Terrorist groups, such as the Mujahideen.
Wealthy muslims, including the Muslim Brotherhood, have been financing the fast paced Halal Industry from the start and want payback… this it is clearly becoming more apparent now as we are beginning to witness the inevitable convergence of the Halal and Islamic Finance sectors… This notable paradigm shift was announced on 10th April 2011 at the 6th World Halal Forum, where the theme was entitled ‘The Power of Values in Global Markets’.
We need to wake people up… we must not be silent – JOIN US!
EDUCATE – LOBBY – PROTEST & ……. BOYCOTT HALAL!
Boycott Halal Facebook group, has done a tremendous amount of research into this. Islam is introducing shariah into our society via halal products & services… this is a Stealth Jihad in the West. Halal food, food prepared according to Islamic shariah law, is becoming an increasing part of the Western diet and has become a multi-billion dollar global industry involving Farming, Food Processing, Catering, Pharmaceuticals, Trade & Finance. Cast-offs from the halal meat industry that do not meet the standard for Certification requirements are discarded unlabelled into the mainstream food chain. Halal products are increasingly aimed at Non-Muslim markets. Well-known brands and chains have been targeted and challenged to alter their traditional recipes in order to comply with halal standards. Undercover investigations have found that the halal industry is increasingly controlled by organizations belonging to the Muslim brotherhood. When consumers buy Halal food, part of the price paid goes as a fee to Halal Islamic experts who devoutly pay Zakat Tax on their income – one-eighth of which funds Islamic Freedom Fighters… in other words Islamic Terrorist groups, such as the Mujahideen. Wealthy muslims, including the Muslim Brotherhood, have been financing the fast paced Halal Industry from the start and want payback… this it is clearly becoming more apparent now as we are beginning to witness the inevitable convergence of the Halal and Islamic Finance sectors… This notable paradigm shift was announced on 10th April 2011 at the 6th World Halal Forum, where the theme was entitled ‘The Power of Values in Global Markets’. We need to wake people up… we must not be silent – JOIN US! EDUCATE – LOBBY – PROTEST & ……. BOYCOTT HALAL! Overlandandsea
  • Score: 1

2:17pm Sun 24 Mar 13

Walthamster says...

Walthamster wrote:
http://www.independe

nt.co.uk/life-style/

food-and-drink/news/

new-eu-rules-require

-compulsory-labellin

g-of-halal-meat-2006

114.html

Apparently labelling will soon be legally required under EU law.
Spoke too soon there: that EU plan was dropped in 2011, partly because the current UK government didn't support it.

Our government held a consultation on compulsory labelling of ritually slaughtered last year,
http://www.secularis
m.org.uk/uploads/nss
-response-to-defra-c
onsultation-october-
2012.pdf

The National Secular Society is pushing for action:
http://www.secularis
m.org.uk/news/2013/0
3/nss-calls-on-envir
onment-minister-to-c
onsider-labelling-of
-meat-from-religious
-slaughter
[quote][p][bold]Walthamster[/bold] wrote: http://www.independe nt.co.uk/life-style/ food-and-drink/news/ new-eu-rules-require -compulsory-labellin g-of-halal-meat-2006 114.html Apparently labelling will soon be legally required under EU law.[/p][/quote]Spoke too soon there: that EU plan was dropped in 2011, partly because the current UK government didn't support it. Our government held a consultation on compulsory labelling of ritually slaughtered last year, http://www.secularis m.org.uk/uploads/nss -response-to-defra-c onsultation-october- 2012.pdf The National Secular Society is pushing for action: http://www.secularis m.org.uk/news/2013/0 3/nss-calls-on-envir onment-minister-to-c onsider-labelling-of -meat-from-religious -slaughter Walthamster
  • Score: -1

3:34pm Sun 24 Mar 13

mdj says...

If schools are only buying meat from halal or kosher suppliers, what is the legality of their position under competition legislation? If a butcher has to recruit Jewish or Muslim slaughtermen to stay in business,how does this comply with anti-discrimination employment laws?
If schools are only buying meat from halal or kosher suppliers, what is the legality of their position under competition legislation? If a butcher has to recruit Jewish or Muslim slaughtermen to stay in business,how does this comply with anti-discrimination employment laws? mdj
  • Score: 0

3:55pm Sun 24 Mar 13

fj2013 says...

I wonder at times where our British society is going? We have open arms for those who wish to reside with us; we seek to protect them and give them freedom to be who they are. But why are we so afraid of saying this is the way we do things here ... your ways will be accommodated, but as a minority.

Halal meat is just one of many groups, what about kosher laws, what about the Christian supporting animal welfare? Each group has to learn to live within the wider society, making allowances for others. If they don't then society as we know it will collapse.
I wonder at times where our British society is going? We have open arms for those who wish to reside with us; we seek to protect them and give them freedom to be who they are. But why are we so afraid of saying this is the way we do things here ... your ways will be accommodated, but as a minority. Halal meat is just one of many groups, what about kosher laws, what about the Christian supporting animal welfare? Each group has to learn to live within the wider society, making allowances for others. If they don't then society as we know it will collapse. fj2013
  • Score: -1

4:32pm Sun 24 Mar 13

Overlandandsea says...

Jewish people are not FORCING their ways or food on us! They aren't building a synagogue on every corner either! Hindus are not allowed to eat halal nobody seems to stand up for them either! Why is it the non muslim rights are being trampled over in appeasement to muslims??

And why should we be secretly sold the discarded halal meat that is not up to certification standard so the muslims won't have it....like we are second class citizens? The animal has already been barbarically killed we don't want it. PLEASE support these parents, write or email The Guardian and Larkswood School Head.
Jewish people are not FORCING their ways or food on us! They aren't building a synagogue on every corner either! Hindus are not allowed to eat halal nobody seems to stand up for them either! Why is it the non muslim rights are being trampled over in appeasement to muslims?? And why should we be secretly sold the discarded halal meat that is not up to certification standard so the muslims won't have it....like we are second class citizens? The animal has already been barbarically killed we don't want it. PLEASE support these parents, write or email The Guardian and Larkswood School Head. Overlandandsea
  • Score: 2

4:37pm Sun 24 Mar 13

Overlandandsea says...

*Please read above should be
Sikhs not Hindus- for whom 'halal' meat is sinful.
*Please read above should be Sikhs not Hindus- for whom 'halal' meat is sinful. Overlandandsea
  • Score: 0

4:58pm Sun 24 Mar 13

Overlandandsea says...

http://www.larkswood
primary.co.uk/find-u
s/
email- school@larkswoodprim
ary.waltham.sch.uk
http://www.larkswood primary.co.uk/find-u s/ email- school@larkswoodprim ary.waltham.sch.uk Overlandandsea
  • Score: 0

5:28pm Sun 24 Mar 13

tmann says...

I remember being told all the meat served at a school I worked at was halal, I struggled to reconcile that with the bacon rolls served up for breakfast and the ham salad wraps available at lunch.
I remember being told all the meat served at a school I worked at was halal, I struggled to reconcile that with the bacon rolls served up for breakfast and the ham salad wraps available at lunch. tmann
  • Score: 0

5:52pm Sun 24 Mar 13

westside_o says...

There you go.
Religion at the heart of a debate again.
We're all the same.
Religion, or how its pumped into us shapes us and can change how we feel, but we are still the same person, maybe with a different outlook on life.
As long as we don't lose sight of who we were and have a balance, all is well.
As far as Halal meat is concerned, I'm sure all have eaten and enjoyed it as much as any other meat , even if unknowingly.
I'm not saying I condone the Halal method of slaughter, but get a grip !
If you want to eat meat, something has to be killed.
There you go. Religion at the heart of a debate again. We're all the same. Religion, or how its pumped into us shapes us and can change how we feel, but we are still the same person, maybe with a different outlook on life. As long as we don't lose sight of who we were and have a balance, all is well. As far as Halal meat is concerned, I'm sure all have eaten and enjoyed it as much as any other meat , even if unknowingly. I'm not saying I condone the Halal method of slaughter, but get a grip ! If you want to eat meat, something has to be killed. westside_o
  • Score: 1

6:25pm Sun 24 Mar 13

Redbridge person says...

Overlandandsea, makes valid points. Why is it always Islam and Muslims getting special and preferential treatment?? Why yet again is a minority being catered for over a majority. This is the UK and not Ukstan despite the best efforts of liberal lefties. This religion is getting a grip everywhere. All the liberal countries such as Sweden and Holland have sever problems now with the muslim refugees they gave shelter to. They have destroyed jewish headtones even. And when was the last time you heard of a group of women from the Methodist church or a group of youngsters from an Anglican church plot to destroy and kill us...??? answer that!!!
Overlandandsea, makes valid points. Why is it always Islam and Muslims getting special and preferential treatment?? Why yet again is a minority being catered for over a majority. This is the UK and not Ukstan despite the best efforts of liberal lefties. This religion is getting a grip everywhere. All the liberal countries such as Sweden and Holland have sever problems now with the muslim refugees they gave shelter to. They have destroyed jewish headtones even. And when was the last time you heard of a group of women from the Methodist church or a group of youngsters from an Anglican church plot to destroy and kill us...??? answer that!!! Redbridge person
  • Score: 1

7:38pm Sun 24 Mar 13

ColinOrient says...

Nearly everyone in power is too frightened to speak up for many of the valid points described above. Politicians would never have the guts to speak up because they would be terrified of then losing their obscene salaries via 'expenses'. Also, the schools concerned should be made to listen to the questions raised by us.
Nearly everyone in power is too frightened to speak up for many of the valid points described above. Politicians would never have the guts to speak up because they would be terrified of then losing their obscene salaries via 'expenses'. Also, the schools concerned should be made to listen to the questions raised by us. ColinOrient
  • Score: 0

8:52pm Sun 24 Mar 13

westside_o says...

http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=MrcSEtk2b
7Q

This brings things to another level.
Don't watch if squeamish.
Makes you think again about Sunday dinner.
http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=MrcSEtk2b 7Q This brings things to another level. Don't watch if squeamish. Makes you think again about Sunday dinner. westside_o
  • Score: 0

9:04pm Sun 24 Mar 13

SpursSupporter1 says...

Parents at Larkswood need too stand up for their childrens rights too eat what they want and not Halal forced meat forced upon them
Parents at Larkswood need too stand up for their childrens rights too eat what they want and not Halal forced meat forced upon them SpursSupporter1
  • Score: -1

9:28pm Sun 24 Mar 13

Ever Watchful says...

I think it would be respectful if the Head Teacher and the Governors held a meeting for parents so that this issue could be discussed; does anyone know who the councillors are for the area?
I think it would be respectful if the Head Teacher and the Governors held a meeting for parents so that this issue could be discussed; does anyone know who the councillors are for the area? Ever Watchful
  • Score: -1

9:32pm Sun 24 Mar 13

westside_o says...

Thom Goddard , Andy Hemsted and Michael Lewis.
Thom Goddard , Andy Hemsted and Michael Lewis. westside_o
  • Score: 0

9:36pm Sun 24 Mar 13

Ever Watchful says...

westside_o wrote:
Thom Goddard , Andy Hemsted and Michael Lewis.
Thanks for that; perhaps parents (and maybe staff) might want to contact them for support inreaching a solutuion.
[quote][p][bold]westside_o[/bold] wrote: Thom Goddard , Andy Hemsted and Michael Lewis.[/p][/quote]Thanks for that; perhaps parents (and maybe staff) might want to contact them for support inreaching a solutuion. Ever Watchful
  • Score: 0

10:27pm Sun 24 Mar 13

Overlandandsea says...

Think those names are for Chingford Green not Larkswood ward.

Councillor Nick Buckmaster
Larkswood
Conservative

Councillor Bernadette Mill
Larkswood
Conservative

Councillor John Moss
Larkswood
Conservative
Think those names are for Chingford Green not Larkswood ward. Councillor Nick Buckmaster Larkswood Conservative Councillor Bernadette Mill Larkswood Conservative Councillor John Moss Larkswood Conservative Overlandandsea
  • Score: 1

10:55pm Sun 24 Mar 13

westside_o says...

Sorry , many thanks.
Sorry , many thanks. westside_o
  • Score: 0

9:54am Mon 25 Mar 13

myopinioncounts says...

As far as Halal meat is concerned, I'm sure all have eaten and enjoyed it as much as any other meat , even if unknowingly.
-westside_o says...
5:52pm Sun 24 Mar 13
And a muslim would be none the wiser and come to no harm if he/she ate non halal meat but that is not the point here. Only 10% of pupils are muslim but the meat for ALL children will be halal - WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! Schools must not be allowed to push through these changes just to satisfy a minority culture.
Food outlets, (and that includes some well known chains) that sell halal only often display a small sigh in Arabic(?) to show this is the case. Many customers may not see or understand the meaning of the symbol and be eating halal unknowingly. The food court in Selborne Mall is a case in point - I don't think any of the 3 companies there are non halal. Franchises such as Subway are free to serve only halal if they wish.
As far as Halal meat is concerned, I'm sure all have eaten and enjoyed it as much as any other meat , even if unknowingly. -westside_o says... 5:52pm Sun 24 Mar 13 And a muslim would be none the wiser and come to no harm if he/she ate non halal meat but that is not the point here. Only 10% of pupils are muslim but the meat for ALL children will be halal - WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! Schools must not be allowed to push through these changes just to satisfy a minority culture. Food outlets, (and that includes some well known chains) that sell halal only often display a small sigh in Arabic(?) to show this is the case. Many customers may not see or understand the meaning of the symbol and be eating halal unknowingly. The food court in Selborne Mall is a case in point - I don't think any of the 3 companies there are non halal. Franchises such as Subway are free to serve only halal if they wish. myopinioncounts
  • Score: 1

11:54am Mon 25 Mar 13

roger_1 says...

If you look at other parts of the east end like tower hamlets, newham and the south of waltham forest, they have much bigger muslim populations. Chingford is next in line. Give up the fight guys, and move further out to essex like all the other 600k white flighters in the last 10 years
If you look at other parts of the east end like tower hamlets, newham and the south of waltham forest, they have much bigger muslim populations. Chingford is next in line. Give up the fight guys, and move further out to essex like all the other 600k white flighters in the last 10 years roger_1
  • Score: -1

1:12pm Mon 25 Mar 13

Isaythat says...

roger_1 wrote:
If you look at other parts of the east end like tower hamlets, newham and the south of waltham forest, they have much bigger muslim populations. Chingford is next in line. Give up the fight guys, and move further out to essex like all the other 600k white flighters in the last 10 years
Both should be served - or neither! anything else is prejudiced against an element of the children in the school.

In reply to Roger1. Moving is not the long term answer, could it be Ukip?
[quote][p][bold]roger_1[/bold] wrote: If you look at other parts of the east end like tower hamlets, newham and the south of waltham forest, they have much bigger muslim populations. Chingford is next in line. Give up the fight guys, and move further out to essex like all the other 600k white flighters in the last 10 years[/p][/quote]Both should be served - or neither! anything else is prejudiced against an element of the children in the school. In reply to Roger1. Moving is not the long term answer, could it be Ukip? Isaythat
  • Score: -1

3:21pm Mon 25 Mar 13

I.Ride says...

The Government is a Joke. This is England, England and England only! Multi-culturalism will destroy this country, Multi-race is fine but there is one culture and its ours the English culture if you dont like it well.. GO HOME! This is disgusting that it has even been thought about that Non- Muslim kids should be fed this crap if the Muslims want it aint they heard of packed lunch? This countries government just keeps on giving in to these foreigners, only cause there scared to say the truth foreigners are ruining this country and you know it! Multi-Race NOT Multi-Culture this is England!!!
The Government is a Joke. This is England, England and England only! Multi-culturalism will destroy this country, Multi-race is fine but there is one culture and its ours the English culture if you dont like it well.. GO HOME! This is disgusting that it has even been thought about that Non- Muslim kids should be fed this crap if the Muslims want it aint they heard of packed lunch? This countries government just keeps on giving in to these foreigners, only cause there scared to say the truth foreigners are ruining this country and you know it! Multi-Race NOT Multi-Culture this is England!!! I.Ride
  • Score: 0

9:45pm Mon 25 Mar 13

J.Lee says...

The link posted by westside-o does not show typical Helal methods. This one does.

https://www.youtube.
com/watch?v=dxAqLDBc
9Eo&feature=player_e
mbedded
The link posted by westside-o does not show typical Helal methods. This one does. https://www.youtube. com/watch?v=dxAqLDBc 9Eo&feature=player_e mbedded J.Lee
  • Score: 0

7:59am Tue 26 Mar 13

everoptimistic says...

There is chance here for a good in-depth Guardian article. Please Daniel Binns could you ask the borough officer responsible for meals if it is standard practice in all schools to only serve halal meat. I suspect that most schools do not advertise the fact and we need to know how widespread the use of halal meat in our school kitchens (and other council run catering establishments) is. It is something that all schools should include in their brochures. This allows parents to make a choice.
Many see ritual killing as even more inhumane than the normal methods of slaughter. I think that we need a serious debate in this country about the whole animal welfare issue.
We should all bring this up with our local Councillors, MP's etc. It is not just a religious issue. At the risk of sounding like an old hippy, animals do have rights to, even though they may only be the basic 'the right not to suffer'.
There is chance here for a good in-depth Guardian article. Please Daniel Binns could you ask the borough officer responsible for meals if it is standard practice in all schools to only serve halal meat. I suspect that most schools do not advertise the fact and we need to know how widespread the use of halal meat in our school kitchens (and other council run catering establishments) is. It is something that all schools should include in their brochures. This allows parents to make a choice. Many see ritual killing as even more inhumane than the normal methods of slaughter. I think that we need a serious debate in this country about the whole animal welfare issue. We should all bring this up with our local Councillors, MP's etc. It is not just a religious issue. At the risk of sounding like an old hippy, animals do have rights to, even though they may only be the basic 'the right not to suffer'. everoptimistic
  • Score: -1

8:25am Tue 26 Mar 13

Isaythat says...

Everoptimistic, your point is certainly a valid one and one which should be looked into.
Freedom of choice is the other major factor, which presents the problem of which school within the required distance from home, can children be moved to if their choice is to eat non-halal meat?
There certainly is a necessary debate to be had and wide publicity is a must for this to be effective.

Everoptimistic, could you approach Daniel Binns directly on people's behalf, just to get the ball rolling?
Everoptimistic, your point is certainly a valid one and one which should be looked into. Freedom of choice is the other major factor, which presents the problem of which school within the required distance from home, can children be moved to if their choice is to eat non-halal meat? There certainly is a necessary debate to be had and wide publicity is a must for this to be effective. Everoptimistic, could you approach Daniel Binns directly on people's behalf, just to get the ball rolling? Isaythat
  • Score: 0

9:09am Tue 26 Mar 13

myopinioncounts says...

Everoptomistic asks how widespread is the serving of halal food in our schools. As I said in a previous comment I know of a school where (some years ago ) the Head introduced halal meat informing only the office staff so they could reassure any muslim parent who enquired. Other members of staff were kept in the dark and when one found out and confronted the Head was told "I didn't think it was necessary for anyone else to know". The arrogance of this statement reflects the climate where staff and parents were (and still are?) not free to express any opinions about multiculturalism that did not support the borough's views.
Everoptomistic asks how widespread is the serving of halal food in our schools. As I said in a previous comment I know of a school where (some years ago ) the Head introduced halal meat informing only the office staff so they could reassure any muslim parent who enquired. Other members of staff were kept in the dark and when one found out and confronted the Head was told "I didn't think it was necessary for anyone else to know". The arrogance of this statement reflects the climate where staff and parents were (and still are?) not free to express any opinions about multiculturalism that did not support the borough's views. myopinioncounts
  • Score: 0

9:57am Tue 26 Mar 13

everoptimistic says...

Isaythat - Daniel Binns away on holiday so have passed some comments to Joe Curtis.
Isaythat - Daniel Binns away on holiday so have passed some comments to Joe Curtis. everoptimistic
  • Score: 0

10:58am Tue 26 Mar 13

Walthamster says...

It's good that the concerned parents and WF Guardian have dragged this into the open. Major changes should not be sneaked into practice without genuine, well-informed consultation. Schools shouldn't be setting a bad example to their pupils.

We also need an honest and open discussion about cruelty to animals. Standard halal practice is to bleed the animal to death while it is conscious. That angers so many people that halal supporters have started saying they stun the animal first.

As I've discovered during this thread, that isn't true. They use the word "stun" to mean the animal is disabled, but it remains conscious.

No muslim is forced to eat halal meat. They have the option of vegetarianism like anyone else. Children can bring packed lunches to school.

It took a long time to improve animal-welfare standards in the meat industry and we should be working to strengthen the law, not weaken it.
It's good that the concerned parents and WF Guardian have dragged this into the open. Major changes should not be sneaked into practice without genuine, well-informed consultation. Schools shouldn't be setting a bad example to their pupils. We also need an honest and open discussion about cruelty to animals. Standard halal practice is to bleed the animal to death while it is conscious. That angers so many people that halal supporters have started saying they stun the animal first. As I've discovered during this thread, that isn't true. They use the word "stun" to mean the animal is disabled, but it remains conscious. No muslim is forced to eat halal meat. They have the option of vegetarianism like anyone else. Children can bring packed lunches to school. It took a long time to improve animal-welfare standards in the meat industry and we should be working to strengthen the law, not weaken it. Walthamster
  • Score: 0

1:19pm Tue 26 Mar 13

chingfordresident says...

Parents at this school unhappy with the situation should just provide their children with a packed lunch. If enough parents withdraw their children from school dinners, perhaps then the school might have to have a rethink.
Parents at this school unhappy with the situation should just provide their children with a packed lunch. If enough parents withdraw their children from school dinners, perhaps then the school might have to have a rethink. chingfordresident
  • Score: 0

1:34pm Tue 26 Mar 13

Isaythat says...

everoptimistic wrote:
Isaythat - Daniel Binns away on holiday so have passed some comments to Joe Curtis.
everoptimistic, thanks.

I hope this matter doesn't end here. The head of Larkswood School should rethink this decision and give equal rights to all pupils.

The school's parents must carry on their protest and raise the profile of this.
[quote][p][bold]everoptimistic[/bold] wrote: Isaythat - Daniel Binns away on holiday so have passed some comments to Joe Curtis.[/p][/quote]everoptimistic, thanks. I hope this matter doesn't end here. The head of Larkswood School should rethink this decision and give equal rights to all pupils. The school's parents must carry on their protest and raise the profile of this. Isaythat
  • Score: 0

2:03pm Tue 26 Mar 13

Walthamster says...

chingfordresident wrote:
Parents at this school unhappy with the situation should just provide their children with a packed lunch. If enough parents withdraw their children from school dinners, perhaps then the school might have to have a rethink.
I fear this wouldn't have enough impact, Chingfordresident. And it would send the wrong message. And I want school meals to be available to all children who need them.
[quote][p][bold]chingfordresident[/bold] wrote: Parents at this school unhappy with the situation should just provide their children with a packed lunch. If enough parents withdraw their children from school dinners, perhaps then the school might have to have a rethink.[/p][/quote]I fear this wouldn't have enough impact, Chingfordresident. And it would send the wrong message. And I want school meals to be available to all children who need them. Walthamster
  • Score: 0

2:32pm Tue 26 Mar 13

J.Lee says...

Walthamster wrote:
chingfordresident wrote:
Parents at this school unhappy with the situation should just provide their children with a packed lunch. If enough parents withdraw their children from school dinners, perhaps then the school might have to have a rethink.
I fear this wouldn't have enough impact, Chingfordresident. And it would send the wrong message. And I want school meals to be available to all children who need them.
"I want school meals to be available for all children who need them"

OK Chingford resident, then is the school going to provide suitable food for :-
a)vegetarians
bvegans
b) those who are lactose intolerant
c)Jewish pupils who have strict dietary requirements regarding milk and meat not coming onto contact in the same kitchen
d) those with gluten allergy
e) diabetics

also be aware that Sikhs and Hindu's cannot eat Helal food.

It's about time this PC nonsense stopped.
[quote][p][bold]Walthamster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]chingfordresident[/bold] wrote: Parents at this school unhappy with the situation should just provide their children with a packed lunch. If enough parents withdraw their children from school dinners, perhaps then the school might have to have a rethink.[/p][/quote]I fear this wouldn't have enough impact, Chingfordresident. And it would send the wrong message. And I want school meals to be available to all children who need them.[/p][/quote]"I want school meals to be available for all children who need them" OK Chingford resident, then is the school going to provide suitable food for :- a)vegetarians bvegans b) those who are lactose intolerant c)Jewish pupils who have strict dietary requirements regarding milk and meat not coming onto contact in the same kitchen d) those with gluten allergy e) diabetics also be aware that Sikhs and Hindu's cannot eat Helal food. It's about time this PC nonsense stopped. J.Lee
  • Score: 1

3:43pm Tue 26 Mar 13

chingfordresident says...

Not enough impact?! There are over 700 children at this school. What impact does a photo with 5 parents and a few kids have? If enough parents withdrew their children from school dinners, it wouldn't be viable for the school to produce any meals let alone halal ones. The school wouldn't want that.

Sadly I suspect that there wouldn't be enough parents who care that much.
Not enough impact?! There are over 700 children at this school. What impact does a photo with 5 parents and a few kids have? If enough parents withdrew their children from school dinners, it wouldn't be viable for the school to produce any meals let alone halal ones. The school wouldn't want that. Sadly I suspect that there wouldn't be enough parents who care that much. chingfordresident
  • Score: 0

4:35pm Tue 26 Mar 13

ruby newbie says...

oh dear chingfordresident i reckon that there is enough,some just dont want to be accused of being racist.i wish the parents the best and i hope they achieve the result they want.i think LBWF are losing the plot in what its doing to itself lately.
oh dear chingfordresident i reckon that there is enough,some just dont want to be accused of being racist.i wish the parents the best and i hope they achieve the result they want.i think LBWF are losing the plot in what its doing to itself lately. ruby newbie
  • Score: 0

6:23pm Tue 26 Mar 13

everoptimistic says...

I've been thinking about this problem all day and have come up with a simple idea that would make school dinners possible for everyone. Just offer two or three vegetarian options. Pizza, pasta, pulses, rice, breads etc. etc. Soya mince, veggie sausages, jacket potatoes, salad. A vegetarian diet is healthy, low in fat, and inexpensive. No worries about halal, kosher etc. An egg free option for Hindus. Have I left anyone out. Children could have a hot meal and parents could provide the meat when they got home. Come on schools, give it a try. It is easy. Plenty of books to give you ideas and no worries about separate pots and pans. I offer my services to any school wishing to give it a try. You can have a well balanced diet with a little thought and would upset no-one.
I've been thinking about this problem all day and have come up with a simple idea that would make school dinners possible for everyone. Just offer two or three vegetarian options. Pizza, pasta, pulses, rice, breads etc. etc. Soya mince, veggie sausages, jacket potatoes, salad. A vegetarian diet is healthy, low in fat, and inexpensive. No worries about halal, kosher etc. An egg free option for Hindus. Have I left anyone out. Children could have a hot meal and parents could provide the meat when they got home. Come on schools, give it a try. It is easy. Plenty of books to give you ideas and no worries about separate pots and pans. I offer my services to any school wishing to give it a try. You can have a well balanced diet with a little thought and would upset no-one. everoptimistic
  • Score: 0

7:17pm Tue 26 Mar 13

Ever Watchful says...

everoptimistic wrote:
I've been thinking about this problem all day and have come up with a simple idea that would make school dinners possible for everyone. Just offer two or three vegetarian options. Pizza, pasta, pulses, rice, breads etc. etc. Soya mince, veggie sausages, jacket potatoes, salad. A vegetarian diet is healthy, low in fat, and inexpensive. No worries about halal, kosher etc. An egg free option for Hindus. Have I left anyone out. Children could have a hot meal and parents could provide the meat when they got home. Come on schools, give it a try. It is easy. Plenty of books to give you ideas and no worries about separate pots and pans. I offer my services to any school wishing to give it a try. You can have a well balanced diet with a little thought and would upset no-one.
I would say that this is an excellent proposal, especially as these healthy options would help to curb the obesity problem within children.
[quote][p][bold]everoptimistic[/bold] wrote: I've been thinking about this problem all day and have come up with a simple idea that would make school dinners possible for everyone. Just offer two or three vegetarian options. Pizza, pasta, pulses, rice, breads etc. etc. Soya mince, veggie sausages, jacket potatoes, salad. A vegetarian diet is healthy, low in fat, and inexpensive. No worries about halal, kosher etc. An egg free option for Hindus. Have I left anyone out. Children could have a hot meal and parents could provide the meat when they got home. Come on schools, give it a try. It is easy. Plenty of books to give you ideas and no worries about separate pots and pans. I offer my services to any school wishing to give it a try. You can have a well balanced diet with a little thought and would upset no-one.[/p][/quote]I would say that this is an excellent proposal, especially as these healthy options would help to curb the obesity problem within children. Ever Watchful
  • Score: 0

9:31pm Tue 26 Mar 13

mdj says...

I've thought for years that meals at school should be made by the children. After a few disasters and pranks they'd get their acts together pretty quickly!
I've thought for years that meals at school should be made by the children. After a few disasters and pranks they'd get their acts together pretty quickly! mdj
  • Score: 0

11:57pm Tue 26 Mar 13

Ever Watchful says...

Does anyone know exactly when the school will impliment these changes?
Does anyone know exactly when the school will impliment these changes? Ever Watchful
  • Score: 0

7:05am Wed 27 Mar 13

Cornbeefur says...

What is odd is that a lot of people do not realise that most lamb and chicken sold in supermarkets is halal these as it simplifies the production processes making it cheaper to produce it in one go.
What is odd is that a lot of people do not realise that most lamb and chicken sold in supermarkets is halal these as it simplifies the production processes making it cheaper to produce it in one go. Cornbeefur
  • Score: 0

7:13am Wed 27 Mar 13

everoptimistic says...

Sad to talk about lambs and chickens as if they are carrots or lettuces.
Sad to talk about lambs and chickens as if they are carrots or lettuces. everoptimistic
  • Score: -1

7:33am Wed 27 Mar 13

J.Lee says...

Cornbeefur wrote:
What is odd is that a lot of people do not realise that most lamb and chicken sold in supermarkets is halal these as it simplifies the production processes making it cheaper to produce it in one go.
If customers are not happy then this then they should ask before they buy see :-

http://www.dailymail
.co.uk/news/article-
1315278/Top-supermar
kets-secretly-sell-h
alal-Sainsburys-Tesc
o-Waitrose-M-S-dont-
tell-meat-ritually-s
laughtered.html

or go to your local butcher.

Even better go veggie !
[quote][p][bold]Cornbeefur[/bold] wrote: What is odd is that a lot of people do not realise that most lamb and chicken sold in supermarkets is halal these as it simplifies the production processes making it cheaper to produce it in one go.[/p][/quote]If customers are not happy then this then they should ask before they buy see :- http://www.dailymail .co.uk/news/article- 1315278/Top-supermar kets-secretly-sell-h alal-Sainsburys-Tesc o-Waitrose-M-S-dont- tell-meat-ritually-s laughtered.html or go to your local butcher. Even better go veggie ! J.Lee
  • Score: 0

9:33am Wed 27 Mar 13

Walthamster says...

everoptimistic wrote:
Sad to talk about lambs and chickens as if they are carrots or lettuces.
I agree. Animals have always been bred for slaughter, but that's no excuse for negligence, much less deliberate cruelty.
[quote][p][bold]everoptimistic[/bold] wrote: Sad to talk about lambs and chickens as if they are carrots or lettuces.[/p][/quote]I agree. Animals have always been bred for slaughter, but that's no excuse for negligence, much less deliberate cruelty. Walthamster
  • Score: -1

4:08pm Wed 27 Mar 13

Isaythat says...

everoptimistic wrote:
I've been thinking about this problem all day and have come up with a simple idea that would make school dinners possible for everyone. Just offer two or three vegetarian options. Pizza, pasta, pulses, rice, breads etc. etc. Soya mince, veggie sausages, jacket potatoes, salad. A vegetarian diet is healthy, low in fat, and inexpensive. No worries about halal, kosher etc. An egg free option for Hindus. Have I left anyone out. Children could have a hot meal and parents could provide the meat when they got home. Come on schools, give it a try. It is easy. Plenty of books to give you ideas and no worries about separate pots and pans. I offer my services to any school wishing to give it a try. You can have a well balanced diet with a little thought and would upset no-one.
Everpotimistic. Excellent idea. I hope at least a few of the determined parents of children at Larkswood school read your comment and act upon it. Better still, the head teacher reads it and sees the sense in what you say.

If I were a strict Muslim, I would not feel confident in trusting the meat was actually halal, given the deceit used recently. Lieing seems a regular occurence, so I would feel much happier with the diet you suggest.
[quote][p][bold]everoptimistic[/bold] wrote: I've been thinking about this problem all day and have come up with a simple idea that would make school dinners possible for everyone. Just offer two or three vegetarian options. Pizza, pasta, pulses, rice, breads etc. etc. Soya mince, veggie sausages, jacket potatoes, salad. A vegetarian diet is healthy, low in fat, and inexpensive. No worries about halal, kosher etc. An egg free option for Hindus. Have I left anyone out. Children could have a hot meal and parents could provide the meat when they got home. Come on schools, give it a try. It is easy. Plenty of books to give you ideas and no worries about separate pots and pans. I offer my services to any school wishing to give it a try. You can have a well balanced diet with a little thought and would upset no-one.[/p][/quote]Everpotimistic. Excellent idea. I hope at least a few of the determined parents of children at Larkswood school read your comment and act upon it. Better still, the head teacher reads it and sees the sense in what you say. If I were a strict Muslim, I would not feel confident in trusting the meat was actually halal, given the deceit used recently. Lieing seems a regular occurence, so I would feel much happier with the diet you suggest. Isaythat
  • Score: 1

4:56pm Wed 27 Mar 13

Walthamster says...

everoptimistic wrote:
I've been thinking about this problem all day and have come up with a simple idea that would make school dinners possible for everyone. Just offer two or three vegetarian options. Pizza, pasta, pulses, rice, breads etc. etc. Soya mince, veggie sausages, jacket potatoes, salad. A vegetarian diet is healthy, low in fat, and inexpensive. No worries about halal, kosher etc. An egg free option for Hindus. Have I left anyone out. Children could have a hot meal and parents could provide the meat when they got home. Come on schools, give it a try. It is easy. Plenty of books to give you ideas and no worries about separate pots and pans. I offer my services to any school wishing to give it a try. You can have a well balanced diet with a little thought and would upset no-one.
Excellent idea. I hope schools take it up, with proper advice on providing a well-balanced vegetarian menu. This way no one can be offended and children can eat meat at home if they wish.
[quote][p][bold]everoptimistic[/bold] wrote: I've been thinking about this problem all day and have come up with a simple idea that would make school dinners possible for everyone. Just offer two or three vegetarian options. Pizza, pasta, pulses, rice, breads etc. etc. Soya mince, veggie sausages, jacket potatoes, salad. A vegetarian diet is healthy, low in fat, and inexpensive. No worries about halal, kosher etc. An egg free option for Hindus. Have I left anyone out. Children could have a hot meal and parents could provide the meat when they got home. Come on schools, give it a try. It is easy. Plenty of books to give you ideas and no worries about separate pots and pans. I offer my services to any school wishing to give it a try. You can have a well balanced diet with a little thought and would upset no-one.[/p][/quote]Excellent idea. I hope schools take it up, with proper advice on providing a well-balanced vegetarian menu. This way no one can be offended and children can eat meat at home if they wish. Walthamster
  • Score: 0

9:34am Thu 28 Mar 13

solcomm says...

Sometimes the simple solutions are so obvious.
A vegetarian lunch for all - their religious option in the evening when they get home.
I would recommend veggie sausages and mash or vegetarian Sheppard's pie.
Could also introduce fish-fingers!
Sometimes the simple solutions are so obvious. A vegetarian lunch for all - their religious option in the evening when they get home. I would recommend veggie sausages and mash or vegetarian Sheppard's pie. Could also introduce fish-fingers! solcomm
  • Score: 0

10:30am Thu 28 Mar 13

Walthamster says...

I've also been thinking about mdj's suggestion that the children should help make school meals. Few children know how to cook any more, because so many parents don't cook. But it is an essential life skill. This would make a lot of sense.
I've also been thinking about mdj's suggestion that the children should help make school meals. Few children know how to cook any more, because so many parents don't cook. But it is an essential life skill. This would make a lot of sense. Walthamster
  • Score: 0

11:15am Thu 28 Mar 13

Alan_1976 says...

Walthamster wrote:
I've also been thinking about mdj's suggestion that the children should help make school meals. Few children know how to cook any more, because so many parents don't cook. But it is an essential life skill. This would make a lot of sense.
Only if you're happy for them to have less teaching time dedicated to actual subjects such as English, mathematics etc.
[quote][p][bold]Walthamster[/bold] wrote: I've also been thinking about mdj's suggestion that the children should help make school meals. Few children know how to cook any more, because so many parents don't cook. But it is an essential life skill. This would make a lot of sense.[/p][/quote]Only if you're happy for them to have less teaching time dedicated to actual subjects such as English, mathematics etc. Alan_1976
  • Score: 0

11:28am Thu 28 Mar 13

Walthamster says...

Alan_1976 wrote:
Walthamster wrote:
I've also been thinking about mdj's suggestion that the children should help make school meals. Few children know how to cook any more, because so many parents don't cook. But it is an essential life skill. This would make a lot of sense.
Only if you're happy for them to have less teaching time dedicated to actual subjects such as English, mathematics etc.
Alan, cookery classes used to be part of the normal school curriculum. Now children are growing up without simple cooking skills and we have an epidemic of ill-health related to poor diet. One cookery class a week wouldn't disrupt anyone's education, and all the more useful if the kids help make the school meals they're going to eat.
[quote][p][bold]Alan_1976[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Walthamster[/bold] wrote: I've also been thinking about mdj's suggestion that the children should help make school meals. Few children know how to cook any more, because so many parents don't cook. But it is an essential life skill. This would make a lot of sense.[/p][/quote]Only if you're happy for them to have less teaching time dedicated to actual subjects such as English, mathematics etc.[/p][/quote]Alan, cookery classes used to be part of the normal school curriculum. Now children are growing up without simple cooking skills and we have an epidemic of ill-health related to poor diet. One cookery class a week wouldn't disrupt anyone's education, and all the more useful if the kids help make the school meals they're going to eat. Walthamster
  • Score: 0

11:53am Thu 28 Mar 13

Alan_1976 says...

Walthamster wrote:
Alan_1976 wrote:
Walthamster wrote:
I've also been thinking about mdj's suggestion that the children should help make school meals. Few children know how to cook any more, because so many parents don't cook. But it is an essential life skill. This would make a lot of sense.
Only if you're happy for them to have less teaching time dedicated to actual subjects such as English, mathematics etc.
Alan, cookery classes used to be part of the normal school curriculum. Now children are growing up without simple cooking skills and we have an epidemic of ill-health related to poor diet. One cookery class a week wouldn't disrupt anyone's education, and all the more useful if the kids help make the school meals they're going to eat.
Given that I myself had cookery classes at school and am a parent I think it odd that you seek to blame the current lack of cooking lessons on the current childrens poor diet. The parents supplying a poor diet are those who had cooking lessons.

One cooking lesson a week will not feed the children on the other four school days of the week.

Cooking takes time to prepare, the actual cooking of the food takes time.

The mechanics of cooking for a large number of people are different from those involved in cooking for one's self or a small number of people not to mention the hygiene considerations.

Setting all that aside it in no way solves the issue of source of meat for food.

Also given the numerous suggestions of vegetarianism as come kind of panacea to this they seem to ignore the complexities of making sure that the diet contains enough to make up for the numerous new potential nutritional deficiencies that such a diet risks introducing.

http://www.healthych
ildren.org/English/a
ges-stages/gradescho
ol/nutrition/pages/V
egetartian-Diet-for-
Children.aspx?nfstat
us=401&nftoken=00000
000-0000-0000-0000-0
00000000000&nfstatus
description=ERROR%3a
+No+local+token

Iron, Vitamin B12, Vitamin D etc. etc.
[quote][p][bold]Walthamster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Alan_1976[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Walthamster[/bold] wrote: I've also been thinking about mdj's suggestion that the children should help make school meals. Few children know how to cook any more, because so many parents don't cook. But it is an essential life skill. This would make a lot of sense.[/p][/quote]Only if you're happy for them to have less teaching time dedicated to actual subjects such as English, mathematics etc.[/p][/quote]Alan, cookery classes used to be part of the normal school curriculum. Now children are growing up without simple cooking skills and we have an epidemic of ill-health related to poor diet. One cookery class a week wouldn't disrupt anyone's education, and all the more useful if the kids help make the school meals they're going to eat.[/p][/quote]Given that I myself had cookery classes at school and am a parent I think it odd that you seek to blame the current lack of cooking lessons on the current childrens poor diet. The parents supplying a poor diet are those who had cooking lessons. One cooking lesson a week will not feed the children on the other four school days of the week. Cooking takes time to prepare, the actual cooking of the food takes time. The mechanics of cooking for a large number of people are different from those involved in cooking for one's self or a small number of people not to mention the hygiene considerations. Setting all that aside it in no way solves the issue of source of meat for food. Also given the numerous suggestions of vegetarianism as come kind of panacea to this they seem to ignore the complexities of making sure that the diet contains enough to make up for the numerous new potential nutritional deficiencies that such a diet risks introducing. http://www.healthych ildren.org/English/a ges-stages/gradescho ol/nutrition/pages/V egetartian-Diet-for- Children.aspx?nfstat us=401&nftoken=00000 000-0000-0000-0000-0 00000000000&nfstatus description=ERROR%3a +No+local+token Iron, Vitamin B12, Vitamin D etc. etc. Alan_1976
  • Score: 0

10:20pm Thu 28 Mar 13

J.Lee says...

Complexities of vegetarianism ? Please get real, it is a healthy diet not a witches brew.
See for ideas about healthy veggie eating :- http://www.viva.org.
uk/guides/vhfk01.htm
l

also see this for the meat alternative

http://www.viva.org.
uk/campaigns/dirtyme
at/index.htm

Bon appetit !
Complexities of vegetarianism ? Please get real, it is a healthy diet not a witches brew. See for ideas about healthy veggie eating :- http://www.viva.org. uk/guides/vhfk01.htm l also see this for the meat alternative http://www.viva.org. uk/campaigns/dirtyme at/index.htm Bon appetit ! J.Lee
  • Score: 0

6:48am Fri 29 Mar 13

Isaythat says...

Alan_1976 wrote:
Walthamster wrote:
Alan_1976 wrote:
Walthamster wrote:
I've also been thinking about mdj's suggestion that the children should help make school meals. Few children know how to cook any more, because so many parents don't cook. But it is an essential life skill. This would make a lot of sense.
Only if you're happy for them to have less teaching time dedicated to actual subjects such as English, mathematics etc.
Alan, cookery classes used to be part of the normal school curriculum. Now children are growing up without simple cooking skills and we have an epidemic of ill-health related to poor diet. One cookery class a week wouldn't disrupt anyone's education, and all the more useful if the kids help make the school meals they're going to eat.
Given that I myself had cookery classes at school and am a parent I think it odd that you seek to blame the current lack of cooking lessons on the current childrens poor diet. The parents supplying a poor diet are those who had cooking lessons.

One cooking lesson a week will not feed the children on the other four school days of the week.

Cooking takes time to prepare, the actual cooking of the food takes time.

The mechanics of cooking for a large number of people are different from those involved in cooking for one's self or a small number of people not to mention the hygiene considerations.

Setting all that aside it in no way solves the issue of source of meat for food.

Also given the numerous suggestions of vegetarianism as come kind of panacea to this they seem to ignore the complexities of making sure that the diet contains enough to make up for the numerous new potential nutritional deficiencies that such a diet risks introducing.

http://www.healthych

ildren.org/English/a

ges-stages/gradescho

ol/nutrition/pages/V

egetartian-Diet-for-

Children.aspx?nfstat

us=401&nftoken=0
0000
000-0000-0000-0000-0

00000000000&nfst
atus
description=ERROR%3a

+No+local+token

Iron, Vitamin B12, Vitamin D etc. etc.
I can't agree with you on this one Alan. Vegetarian diets are extremely easy to fulfil all nutritional elements. It just has to be considered in the planning, as does for meat eaters. Plenty of nuts, pulses (baked beans), fish, fruit and veg will do it.

As I said above, no-one can be 100% sure what the schools are serving, so a vegegarian diet is safe for every religion - a win win plan. Such an obvious solution.
[quote][p][bold]Alan_1976[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Walthamster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Alan_1976[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Walthamster[/bold] wrote: I've also been thinking about mdj's suggestion that the children should help make school meals. Few children know how to cook any more, because so many parents don't cook. But it is an essential life skill. This would make a lot of sense.[/p][/quote]Only if you're happy for them to have less teaching time dedicated to actual subjects such as English, mathematics etc.[/p][/quote]Alan, cookery classes used to be part of the normal school curriculum. Now children are growing up without simple cooking skills and we have an epidemic of ill-health related to poor diet. One cookery class a week wouldn't disrupt anyone's education, and all the more useful if the kids help make the school meals they're going to eat.[/p][/quote]Given that I myself had cookery classes at school and am a parent I think it odd that you seek to blame the current lack of cooking lessons on the current childrens poor diet. The parents supplying a poor diet are those who had cooking lessons. One cooking lesson a week will not feed the children on the other four school days of the week. Cooking takes time to prepare, the actual cooking of the food takes time. The mechanics of cooking for a large number of people are different from those involved in cooking for one's self or a small number of people not to mention the hygiene considerations. Setting all that aside it in no way solves the issue of source of meat for food. Also given the numerous suggestions of vegetarianism as come kind of panacea to this they seem to ignore the complexities of making sure that the diet contains enough to make up for the numerous new potential nutritional deficiencies that such a diet risks introducing. http://www.healthych ildren.org/English/a ges-stages/gradescho ol/nutrition/pages/V egetartian-Diet-for- Children.aspx?nfstat us=401&nftoken=0 0000 000-0000-0000-0000-0 00000000000&nfst atus description=ERROR%3a +No+local+token Iron, Vitamin B12, Vitamin D etc. etc.[/p][/quote]I can't agree with you on this one Alan. Vegetarian diets are extremely easy to fulfil all nutritional elements. It just has to be considered in the planning, as does for meat eaters. Plenty of nuts, pulses (baked beans), fish, fruit and veg will do it. As I said above, no-one can be 100% sure what the schools are serving, so a vegegarian diet is safe for every religion - a win win plan. Such an obvious solution. Isaythat
  • Score: 0

7:08am Fri 29 Mar 13

Alan_1976 says...

J.Lee wrote:
Complexities of vegetarianism ? Please get real, it is a healthy diet not a witches brew.
See for ideas about healthy veggie eating :- http://www.viva.org.

uk/guides/vhfk01.htm

l

also see this for the meat alternative

http://www.viva.org.

uk/campaigns/dirtyme

at/index.htm

Bon appetit !
You then send a link which shows that a vegetarian diet requires planning to ensure the nutrients are there. Where you intending to send something that contradicted what I said because that link confirms it?
[quote][p][bold]J.Lee[/bold] wrote: Complexities of vegetarianism ? Please get real, it is a healthy diet not a witches brew. See for ideas about healthy veggie eating :- http://www.viva.org. uk/guides/vhfk01.htm l also see this for the meat alternative http://www.viva.org. uk/campaigns/dirtyme at/index.htm Bon appetit ![/p][/quote]You then send a link which shows that a vegetarian diet requires planning to ensure the nutrients are there. Where you intending to send something that contradicted what I said because that link confirms it? Alan_1976
  • Score: 0

7:10am Fri 29 Mar 13

Alan_1976 says...

Isaythat wrote:
Alan_1976 wrote:
Walthamster wrote:
Alan_1976 wrote:
Walthamster wrote:
I've also been thinking about mdj's suggestion that the children should help make school meals. Few children know how to cook any more, because so many parents don't cook. But it is an essential life skill. This would make a lot of sense.
Only if you're happy for them to have less teaching time dedicated to actual subjects such as English, mathematics etc.
Alan, cookery classes used to be part of the normal school curriculum. Now children are growing up without simple cooking skills and we have an epidemic of ill-health related to poor diet. One cookery class a week wouldn't disrupt anyone's education, and all the more useful if the kids help make the school meals they're going to eat.
Given that I myself had cookery classes at school and am a parent I think it odd that you seek to blame the current lack of cooking lessons on the current childrens poor diet. The parents supplying a poor diet are those who had cooking lessons.

One cooking lesson a week will not feed the children on the other four school days of the week.

Cooking takes time to prepare, the actual cooking of the food takes time.

The mechanics of cooking for a large number of people are different from those involved in cooking for one's self or a small number of people not to mention the hygiene considerations.

Setting all that aside it in no way solves the issue of source of meat for food.

Also given the numerous suggestions of vegetarianism as come kind of panacea to this they seem to ignore the complexities of making sure that the diet contains enough to make up for the numerous new potential nutritional deficiencies that such a diet risks introducing.

http://www.healthych


ildren.org/English/a


ges-stages/gradescho


ol/nutrition/pages/V


egetartian-Diet-for-


Children.aspx?nfstat


us=401&nftoken=0

0000
000-0000-0000-0000-0


00000000000&nfst

atus
description=ERROR%3a


+No+local+token

Iron, Vitamin B12, Vitamin D etc. etc.
I can't agree with you on this one Alan. Vegetarian diets are extremely easy to fulfil all nutritional elements. It just has to be considered in the planning, as does for meat eaters. Plenty of nuts, pulses (baked beans), fish, fruit and veg will do it.

As I said above, no-one can be 100% sure what the schools are serving, so a vegegarian diet is safe for every religion - a win win plan. Such an obvious solution.
"Plenty of nuts". Given the high incidence of nut allergies it doesn't sound a safe diet for everyone
[quote][p][bold]Isaythat[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Alan_1976[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Walthamster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Alan_1976[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Walthamster[/bold] wrote: I've also been thinking about mdj's suggestion that the children should help make school meals. Few children know how to cook any more, because so many parents don't cook. But it is an essential life skill. This would make a lot of sense.[/p][/quote]Only if you're happy for them to have less teaching time dedicated to actual subjects such as English, mathematics etc.[/p][/quote]Alan, cookery classes used to be part of the normal school curriculum. Now children are growing up without simple cooking skills and we have an epidemic of ill-health related to poor diet. One cookery class a week wouldn't disrupt anyone's education, and all the more useful if the kids help make the school meals they're going to eat.[/p][/quote]Given that I myself had cookery classes at school and am a parent I think it odd that you seek to blame the current lack of cooking lessons on the current childrens poor diet. The parents supplying a poor diet are those who had cooking lessons. One cooking lesson a week will not feed the children on the other four school days of the week. Cooking takes time to prepare, the actual cooking of the food takes time. The mechanics of cooking for a large number of people are different from those involved in cooking for one's self or a small number of people not to mention the hygiene considerations. Setting all that aside it in no way solves the issue of source of meat for food. Also given the numerous suggestions of vegetarianism as come kind of panacea to this they seem to ignore the complexities of making sure that the diet contains enough to make up for the numerous new potential nutritional deficiencies that such a diet risks introducing. http://www.healthych ildren.org/English/a ges-stages/gradescho ol/nutrition/pages/V egetartian-Diet-for- Children.aspx?nfstat us=401&nftoken=0 0000 000-0000-0000-0000-0 00000000000&nfst atus description=ERROR%3a +No+local+token Iron, Vitamin B12, Vitamin D etc. etc.[/p][/quote]I can't agree with you on this one Alan. Vegetarian diets are extremely easy to fulfil all nutritional elements. It just has to be considered in the planning, as does for meat eaters. Plenty of nuts, pulses (baked beans), fish, fruit and veg will do it. As I said above, no-one can be 100% sure what the schools are serving, so a vegegarian diet is safe for every religion - a win win plan. Such an obvious solution.[/p][/quote]"Plenty of nuts". Given the high incidence of nut allergies it doesn't sound a safe diet for everyone Alan_1976
  • Score: 0

7:16am Fri 29 Mar 13

Isaythat says...

Alan, good point, but I would assume anyone with a nut allegy would not be having school dinners.
Alan, good point, but I would assume anyone with a nut allegy would not be having school dinners. Isaythat
  • Score: 0

7:38am Fri 29 Mar 13

SpursSupporter1 says...

It still comes down too children having a choice, could you imagine the uproar if a child that only eats Halal was only given a choice of Pork too eat Exactly
It still comes down too children having a choice, could you imagine the uproar if a child that only eats Halal was only given a choice of Pork too eat Exactly SpursSupporter1
  • Score: 0

8:34am Fri 29 Mar 13

Alan_1976 says...

SpursSupporter1 wrote:
It still comes down too children having a choice, could you imagine the uproar if a child that only eats Halal was only given a choice of Pork too eat Exactly
I have nothing against a vegetarian diet. I often enjoy a good veggie meal and if a child of mine wanted to be a vegetarian then i would support their choice but it is the element of choice that is important here as you say.

Serving only a vegetarian option is in its own way imposing a belief system about what we should eat on others. I find it ironic that on this article people are talking about using that imposed diet as an answer to people's objections about an imposed diet.
[quote][p][bold]SpursSupporter1[/bold] wrote: It still comes down too children having a choice, could you imagine the uproar if a child that only eats Halal was only given a choice of Pork too eat Exactly[/p][/quote]I have nothing against a vegetarian diet. I often enjoy a good veggie meal and if a child of mine wanted to be a vegetarian then i would support their choice but it is the element of choice that is important here as you say. Serving only a vegetarian option is in its own way imposing a belief system about what we should eat on others. I find it ironic that on this article people are talking about using that imposed diet as an answer to people's objections about an imposed diet. Alan_1976
  • Score: 0

10:45am Fri 29 Mar 13

myopinioncounts says...

How many other countries provide a highly subsidised school dinner? I guess the answer is likely to be none. When I was a school there were no choices just meat and two veg and a pudding. You ate it or went without.
Perhaps the only answer to the wide dietary demands we now see in our schools is to stop providing school dinners and for ALL children to bring a packed lunch. Poorer families who now receive free meals can be given extra benefits to cover the cost.
To those who will immediately say that some parents will send their child with inappropriate or insufficient food I say we cannot mollycoddle parents, they must be made to take responsibility and not offload it onto others.
How many other countries provide a highly subsidised school dinner? I guess the answer is likely to be none. When I was a school there were no choices just meat and two veg and a pudding. You ate it or went without. Perhaps the only answer to the wide dietary demands we now see in our schools is to stop providing school dinners and for ALL children to bring a packed lunch. Poorer families who now receive free meals can be given extra benefits to cover the cost. To those who will immediately say that some parents will send their child with inappropriate or insufficient food I say we cannot mollycoddle parents, they must be made to take responsibility and not offload it onto others. myopinioncounts
  • Score: 0

11:02am Fri 29 Mar 13

Walthamster says...

Alan, all school meals should be nutritionally balanced and prepared under expert supervision. (All the better if some pupils are helping and learning.) It's no harder to get this right on a vegetarian diet. And kids can gorge on burgers at home if they wish!

Myopinioncounts, I see your point, but so many children eat junk instead of healthy food that a healthy school dinner could be the only real nutrition they get. And healthy eating is even more important for children than for the rest of us - poor diet really does affect their brain development and lifelong health.
Alan, all school meals should be nutritionally balanced and prepared under expert supervision. (All the better if some pupils are helping and learning.) It's no harder to get this right on a vegetarian diet. And kids can gorge on burgers at home if they wish! Myopinioncounts, I see your point, but so many children eat junk instead of healthy food that a healthy school dinner could be the only real nutrition they get. And healthy eating is even more important for children than for the rest of us - poor diet really does affect their brain development and lifelong health. Walthamster
  • Score: 0

3:28pm Fri 29 Mar 13

Redbridge person says...

so now staff have to spend hours of time and money developing veg options etc etc...just ban halal products and thats the end of the whole nonsense. no other country eu or otherwise would even be having this ridiculous discussion. ban it all and end of. full stop. easy.next.
so now staff have to spend hours of time and money developing veg options etc etc...just ban halal products and thats the end of the whole nonsense. no other country eu or otherwise would even be having this ridiculous discussion. ban it all and end of. full stop. easy.next. Redbridge person
  • Score: -1

4:23pm Fri 29 Mar 13

myopinioncounts says...

"Myopinioncounts, I see your point, but so many children eat junk instead of healthy food that a healthy school dinner could be the only real nutrition they get. " - Exactly what I mean "Walthamster", the state is taking away the parent's responsibility to care properly for the children they chose to bring into the world. How far do we go?
"Myopinioncounts, I see your point, but so many children eat junk instead of healthy food that a healthy school dinner could be the only real nutrition they get. " - Exactly what I mean "Walthamster", the state is taking away the parent's responsibility to care properly for the children they chose to bring into the world. How far do we go? myopinioncounts
  • Score: 0

10:03pm Fri 29 Mar 13

icareE17 says...

I would be concerned too. The halal method of slaughter is a very cruel way to kill an animal- especially a cow which has blood supplied to the brain via a thick spinal column (so slitting its throat results in a long and painful death). That halal slaughter is cruel, is not just my opinion, but also that of the British Veterinary Association. This practice is banned in many other progressive countries and its time that the UK followed suit.
I would be concerned too. The halal method of slaughter is a very cruel way to kill an animal- especially a cow which has blood supplied to the brain via a thick spinal column (so slitting its throat results in a long and painful death). That halal slaughter is cruel, is not just my opinion, but also that of the British Veterinary Association. This practice is banned in many other progressive countries and its time that the UK followed suit. icareE17
  • Score: -1

12:10pm Sun 31 Mar 13

Overlandandsea says...

We must point out to those in power that we have the RIGHT to Freedom of Conscience when it comes to the vast over-production of halal meat and so many UNLABELLED halal products & services. As Non-Muslims we do not require halal certification at all in our Non-Islamic nations!
Article 9 Human Rights Act. regarding Freedom of Conscience - should give us the right to religious and secular freedom, ie to not be forced to participate in religious rites. Dedicating this meat to a god violates this right: hence there is forced participation in another's religion without consent. Also Jews, Sikhs & Christians are specifically instructed not to eat this meat, so where is their religious freedom?
UK Human Rights Blog
http://ukhumanrights
blog.com/incorporate
d-rights/articles-in
dex/article-9/

Article 9
ukhumanrightsblog.co
m
Article 9 | Right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion Read posts on this Article Article 9 of the Convention provides as follows: (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of thought...
We must point out to those in power that we have the RIGHT to Freedom of Conscience when it comes to the vast over-production of halal meat and so many UNLABELLED halal products & services. As Non-Muslims we do not require halal certification at all in our Non-Islamic nations! Article 9 Human Rights Act. regarding Freedom of Conscience - should give us the right to religious and secular freedom, ie to not be forced to participate in religious rites. Dedicating this meat to a god violates this right: hence there is forced participation in another's religion without consent. Also Jews, Sikhs & Christians are specifically instructed not to eat this meat, so where is their religious freedom? UK Human Rights Blog http://ukhumanrights blog.com/incorporate d-rights/articles-in dex/article-9/ Article 9 ukhumanrightsblog.co m Article 9 | Right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion Read posts on this Article Article 9 of the Convention provides as follows: (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of thought... Overlandandsea
  • Score: 0

12:11pm Sun 31 Mar 13

Overlandandsea says...

As many people as possible need to write to their MP's quoting this article and complaining that they are forced to eat halal food whereas they the MP's and Lords have thrown out halal food from the Palace of Westminster and that we have the right as they have and demand that our rights be upheld immediately.
As many people as possible need to write to their MP's quoting this article and complaining that they are forced to eat halal food whereas they the MP's and Lords have thrown out halal food from the Palace of Westminster and that we have the right as they have and demand that our rights be upheld immediately. Overlandandsea
  • Score: 0

12:13pm Sun 31 Mar 13

Overlandandsea says...

http://www.writetoth
em.com/who?pc=e4+6sy
http://www.writetoth em.com/who?pc=e4+6sy Overlandandsea
  • Score: 0

12:15pm Sun 31 Mar 13

Overlandandsea says...

Please write to your representatives in power... see who they are & write to them for FREE here (if you are in the UK) - if not still write to your government and tell them why they should resist the sale of halal meat to the Non-Muslim majority of consumers - who do not need or want Halal Ritually Slaughtered meat.
We do not require halal certification at all.
If muslims want halal certification – Let them pay for it – NOT US!
The Followers of Islam are making money on the back of the well known brands that we know & love... this is taking profit towards Islamic ends rather than it help our National Debt in these times of austerity... Why are we allowing halal certification on mainstream products & services when over 95% of our population are NOT MUSLIMS & do not require it??? Tell those in Power to Wake Up!
If in UK please put your Post Code on this website to find out who to write to...
www.writetothem.com
All it will cost is your time... Do it Now!

WriteToThem - Email or fax your Councillor, MP, MEP, MSP or Welsh, NI, London Assembly Member for fr
www.writetothem.com
Please write to your representatives in power... see who they are & write to them for FREE here (if you are in the UK) - if not still write to your government and tell them why they should resist the sale of halal meat to the Non-Muslim majority of consumers - who do not need or want Halal Ritually Slaughtered meat. We do not require halal certification at all. If muslims want halal certification – Let them pay for it – NOT US! The Followers of Islam are making money on the back of the well known brands that we know & love... this is taking profit towards Islamic ends rather than it help our National Debt in these times of austerity... Why are we allowing halal certification on mainstream products & services when over 95% of our population are NOT MUSLIMS & do not require it??? Tell those in Power to Wake Up! If in UK please put your Post Code on this website to find out who to write to... www.writetothem.com All it will cost is your time... Do it Now! WriteToThem - Email or fax your Councillor, MP, MEP, MSP or Welsh, NI, London Assembly Member for fr www.writetothem.com Overlandandsea
  • Score: 1

12:25pm Sun 31 Mar 13

Overlandandsea says...

One rule for them and another for the rest of us it seems.
http://www.dailymail
.co.uk/news/article-
2080805/We-wont-eat-
halal-meat-say-MPs-p
eers-reject-demands-
serve-Westminster.ht
ml
One rule for them and another for the rest of us it seems. http://www.dailymail .co.uk/news/article- 2080805/We-wont-eat- halal-meat-say-MPs-p eers-reject-demands- serve-Westminster.ht ml Overlandandsea
  • Score: -1

9:59am Mon 1 Apr 13

Overlandandsea says...

http://www.gatestone
institute.org/1799/e
urope-goes-halal
http://www.gatestone institute.org/1799/e urope-goes-halal Overlandandsea
  • Score: 0

8:25pm Mon 1 Apr 13

Overlandandsea says...

https://www.facebook
.com/photo.php?fbid=
560152220681934&set=
a.164484176915409.31
951.160347640662396&
type=1
Plenty of useful reading on this site.
https://www.facebook .com/photo.php?fbid= 560152220681934&set= a.164484176915409.31 951.160347640662396& type=1 Plenty of useful reading on this site. Overlandandsea
  • Score: 0

10:45pm Wed 3 Apr 13

J.Lee says...

Can anyone explain why the dietary preferences of the minority must overrule the minority? I thought this was a democratic society?
Can anyone explain why the dietary preferences of the minority must overrule the minority? I thought this was a democratic society? J.Lee
  • Score: 1

10:12pm Mon 8 Apr 13

J.Lee says...

Despite what many halal stockists, supermarkets, politicians, Government and even some animal welfare organisations claim, no Islamic food certification groups support full and effective stunning.


Muslim groups/ slaughterhouses who claim to accept stunning use a method called "stun-to-stun" or "stun to immobilise", this technique is nowhere near the level of stunning recommended by vets and scientists to cause immediate unconsciousness. The method is usually used to paralyse the animal to make the slaughtermen's job easier.
Despite what many halal stockists, supermarkets, politicians, Government and even some animal welfare organisations claim, no Islamic food certification groups support full and effective stunning. Muslim groups/ slaughterhouses who claim to accept stunning use a method called "stun-to-stun" or "stun to immobilise", this technique is nowhere near the level of stunning recommended by vets and scientists to cause immediate unconsciousness. The method is usually used to paralyse the animal to make the slaughtermen's job easier. J.Lee
  • Score: 2

10:17am Tue 9 Apr 13

Overlandandsea says...

http://www.guardian-

series.co.uk/news/wf

news/10334813.Halal_

meat_served_in_three

_quarters_of_council

_supported_schools/?

action=success

debate continues here if anyone has missed the latest from the guardian newpaper.
http://www.guardian- series.co.uk/news/wf news/10334813.Halal_ meat_served_in_three _quarters_of_council _supported_schools/? action=success debate continues here if anyone has missed the latest from the guardian newpaper. Overlandandsea
  • Score: 0

12:20pm Tue 9 Apr 13

Walthamster says...

J.Lee wrote:
Despite what many halal stockists, supermarkets, politicians, Government and even some animal welfare organisations claim, no Islamic food certification groups support full and effective stunning.


Muslim groups/ slaughterhouses who claim to accept stunning use a method called "stun-to-stun" or "stun to immobilise", this technique is nowhere near the level of stunning recommended by vets and scientists to cause immediate unconsciousness. The method is usually used to paralyse the animal to make the slaughtermen's job easier.
Sickening. This is used as a pretence of meeting animal-welfare requirements, but could actually be even crueller than ordinary halal.
[quote][p][bold]J.Lee[/bold] wrote: Despite what many halal stockists, supermarkets, politicians, Government and even some animal welfare organisations claim, no Islamic food certification groups support full and effective stunning. Muslim groups/ slaughterhouses who claim to accept stunning use a method called "stun-to-stun" or "stun to immobilise", this technique is nowhere near the level of stunning recommended by vets and scientists to cause immediate unconsciousness. The method is usually used to paralyse the animal to make the slaughtermen's job easier.[/p][/quote]Sickening. This is used as a pretence of meeting animal-welfare requirements, but could actually be even crueller than ordinary halal. Walthamster
  • Score: 0

6:32pm Tue 9 Apr 13

J.Lee says...

Correct Walthamster

See

http://www.organic-h
alal-meat.com/articl
e/stunning.php to have it from the horses mouth (so to speak).

Please note this sentence
"The stun used is a very low voltage that knocks the animal out for around 15-20 seconds. After 20 seconds it is potentially back to normal and during that 20 seconds it is alive and breathing. This means that when the animal is cut it still bleeds the animal properly. "
Q. So if the current is so miniscule why bother to do it?
A. So they can fool the public by saying the animal is "stunned".

We need to wise up about this one.
Correct Walthamster See http://www.organic-h alal-meat.com/articl e/stunning.php to have it from the horses mouth (so to speak). Please note this sentence "The stun used is a very low voltage that knocks the animal out for around 15-20 seconds. After 20 seconds it is potentially back to normal and during that 20 seconds it is alive and breathing. This means that when the animal is cut it still bleeds the animal properly. " Q. So if the current is so miniscule why bother to do it? A. So they can fool the public by saying the animal is "stunned". We need to wise up about this one. J.Lee
  • Score: 0

6:40pm Tue 9 Apr 13

Walthamster says...

J.Lee wrote:
Correct Walthamster

See

http://www.organic-h

alal-meat.com/articl

e/stunning.php to have it from the horses mouth (so to speak).

Please note this sentence
"The stun used is a very low voltage that knocks the animal out for around 15-20 seconds. After 20 seconds it is potentially back to normal and during that 20 seconds it is alive and breathing. This means that when the animal is cut it still bleeds the animal properly. "
Q. So if the current is so miniscule why bother to do it?
A. So they can fool the public by saying the animal is "stunned".

We need to wise up about this one.
This is horrible, JLee. I'd read in so many places that 80 or 90% of animals are 'stunned' before halal slaughter. Then I read that the electric charge is set to disable the animals so they are easier to kill -- not to knock them unconscious.

So it's actually worse than not stunning them. And dishonest too.

more of a shock is that this meat is allowed to be called 'organic'. Years ago, I read up quite a lot on organic food, which requires extra-high standards of animal welfare. Things must have been changed since then. How unethical -- that certainly wan't advertised.
[quote][p][bold]J.Lee[/bold] wrote: Correct Walthamster See http://www.organic-h alal-meat.com/articl e/stunning.php to have it from the horses mouth (so to speak). Please note this sentence "The stun used is a very low voltage that knocks the animal out for around 15-20 seconds. After 20 seconds it is potentially back to normal and during that 20 seconds it is alive and breathing. This means that when the animal is cut it still bleeds the animal properly. " Q. So if the current is so miniscule why bother to do it? A. So they can fool the public by saying the animal is "stunned". We need to wise up about this one.[/p][/quote]This is horrible, JLee. I'd read in so many places that 80 or 90% of animals are 'stunned' before halal slaughter. Then I read that the electric charge is set to disable the animals so they are easier to kill -- not to knock them unconscious. So it's actually worse than not stunning them. And dishonest too. more of a shock is that this meat is allowed to be called 'organic'. Years ago, I read up quite a lot on organic food, which requires extra-high standards of animal welfare. Things must have been changed since then. How unethical -- that certainly wan't advertised. Walthamster
  • Score: 4

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