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WALTHAMSTOW: Massive Christmas concerts will "cause disruption" (From East London and West Essex Guardian Series)
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WALTHAMSTOW: Massive Christmas concerts will "cause disruption"
10:09am Wednesday 17th December 2008
FAMILIES living near Walthamstow Stadium fear their Christmas will be ruined by 8,000 worshippers who have turned it into a temporary church.
A large marquee has been built at the former dog track to host evangelical Christian services by Kingsway International Christian Centre (KICC) over the festive period.
It does not require planning permission, nor does it require a licence for a temporary installation because it is a religious event.
But the Guardian has been inundated with calls from people living nearby, who say they are worried about noise, extra litter and a desperate shortage of parking spaces.
Parking spots are already difficult to find as the residential ticket scheme was axed after the Stow shut in August.
Naana Andoh, a nurse from Grove Park Road, said she had been forced to park streets away from her front door.
She said: “I cannot park outside my own house and sometimes when I get back from work I have to park outside the area. We don’t really approve - not that we have anything against God. But we are going to have a sad Christmas with this going on.”
Waltham Forest Council has said it will monitor the surrounding area to see if further street cleaning is required, and has urged locals to report any excessive noise.
But some residents say problems are inevitable, if a KICC event in Leyton Marshes, near Lea Bridge Road last year, is anything to go by.
Katy Andrews, of the New Lammas Lands Defence Committee, said: “The noise and disruption to residents of Riverside Close, just 50 yards away but on the Hackney side of the river, was intolerable.
"The Christmas services were noisy parties that went on into the small hours, and fleets of coaches were used to bring worshippers in and out, causing traffic disruption as well as noise for over a week.
“We gained an undertaking from the Regional Park Authority that this would not be repeated."
KICC chief pperations officer James McGlashan said he did not receive any complaints about last year’s event and has been working with several departments at the council to ensure services run smoothly.
He said there will be on-site parking and he is negotiating with owners to get use of the car park opposite the site in Chingford Road.
The church has agreed to reduce the volume after midnight.
Mr McGlashan added: “The parking is not all sorted, but we are working on it and hope to minimise the impact on the community.
“I think the concerns are fear of the unknown, but we are a responsible organisation.”
There will be three services at Walthamstow Stadium: Christmas Day from 10am to 1pm, Sunday, December 28 from 10am to 1pm, and on New Year’s Eve from 8pm until after midnight.
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Your Say Your Guardian
Walthamster, Walthamstow says...
11:14am Wed 17 Dec 08
http://news.bbc.co.u
k/1/hi/uk/4319856.st
m
UK church accused of misconduct
A UK-based church, which claims to be the fastest-growing in Europe, has been accused by the Charity Commission of "serious misconduct and mismanagement".
After an inquiry into Kingsway International Christian Centre, the commission ordered its head, Pastor Matthew Ashimolowo, to repay £200,000.
It found he had used church funds to pay for a £120,000 party, a £80,000 car and a £13,000 timeshare in Florida.
The report also found that hundreds of thousands of pounds had been transferred overseas, with little documentary evidence to explain how the money supported the charity's objectives.
The church, in Hackney, east London, had a income of £7.3 million in 2001, boasts a regular congregation of 10,000 and aims to increase its size to 25,000 by 2010.
Technomist, Walthamstow says...
11:42am Wed 17 Dec 08
The evidence you cite would be, for me, enough to run a mile from such a group, but given that church goers have the same access to this information that you do and still wish to associate themselves with this organisation, to what extent should we be using concerns about temporary parking inconveniences to protect them from themselves?
annabel, London says...
11:56am Wed 17 Dec 08
the point is that nimbys in the area say they 'dont approve' and that people worshipping makes their christmas 'sad'. 'Sad' because for three days they might have look for a parking space that isnt right outside their house!!!
tha fact is there seems to be parking issue in that area already which is something the residents should take up with the council (much good it will do them)and not use this church as a scapegost, when actually what they really mean is they dont want people exercising their religious freedom, and I suspect if it were any other religion other than a christian one, nobody would be saying anything.
Walthamster, Walthamstow says...
12:15pm Wed 17 Dec 08
technomist, this isn't opposition to Christianity. There's nothing spiritual about these money-spinning groups - you read how the money was being used! Should we not mind that the "congregation" either don't read the BBC news or don't care? Look at the huge posters for these groups, promising miracles to the gullible - and there are plenty of gullible people around.
Charity status gives money-spinning organisations a lot of privileges. They pull in millions of pounds from these huge fund-raising events, and don't have to pay tax or comply with council regulations.
And it's not just about parking. It sounds as if the previous KICC fund-raiser caused misery to local residents. Once again Waltham Forest is being dumped on.
ch815n, Chingford says...
12:38pm Wed 17 Dec 08
Bert Small, Leyton says...
1:28pm Wed 17 Dec 08
The locals who complain have been living next to a Stadium that had operated almost every day as the dog track.
What do they want an empty bit of wasteland?
There will be a massive housing development there soon. People will find it difficult to park then for sure.
enna, Walthamstow says...
1:35pm Wed 17 Dec 08
Out of interest how many of you actually live near the dogs?
Touchwood, Walthamstow says...
1:35pm Wed 17 Dec 08
enna, Walthamstow says...
1:52pm Wed 17 Dec 08
Walthamster, Walthamstow says...
2:10pm Wed 17 Dec 08
The owners of these businesses are smart enough to call them "churches" and get charity status. They don't teach or practise anything that most people would recognise as Christian.
How many times have you seen an old woman knocked over and left on the ground by people coming out of a real church? How many genuine churches hire heavies to illegally keep people out of public car parks? How many bring busloads of their supporters to a council planning committee (as happened with the UCKG, a similar set-up) to pretend they all lived in the area and wanted their "church" there?
This is about big business, not anything spiritual!
Hugh Jed, Woodford Green says...
2:22pm Wed 17 Dec 08
enna, Walthamstow says...
2:29pm Wed 17 Dec 08
annabel, London says...
3:34pm Wed 17 Dec 08
this is all a load of baloney people should just be honest and say they dont want christians worshipping at a christian church on a christian occasion, spoiling THEIR Christmas.
DEXTERDODGY, CHINGFORD says...
3:35pm Wed 17 Dec 08
Religion, for those who do not believe in themselves, reinvented in the middle ages to control the masses. Perpetuated by those that wish to control.
enna, Walthamstow says...
4:34pm Wed 17 Dec 08
JonathanB, Walthamstow says...
4:38pm Wed 17 Dec 08
Oh, and isn't Christmas actually a pagan holiday?
enna, Walthamstow says...
4:49pm Wed 17 Dec 08
Ferdy50, Chingford says...
5:57pm Wed 17 Dec 08
I reiterate. When they had their place in Waterden Road which luckily wasn't a residential road, only bus garages & a few businesses, these people had a big 'sing a long' event at the end of every August, which I assume Annabel doesnt know anything about.
I,unfortunately, had to come down that road on my way home from work & it could take about half hour to do half a mile!!! They just seem to have their own driving rules. They parked along the road in whatever space they could find blocking the road in parts & I lost count of how many of them tried turning round to go back the way they just come to find parking.
I can see that all the roads leading up to the Billet, especially Chingford Road will be unpassable for hours unless they can sort something out before this even starts.
Bert Small, Leyton says...
6:25pm Wed 17 Dec 08
They have kept it all quite.
Who authorised it and how early did the Council know about it.
Maybe Loakes can make a statement in his alternative Queens Speech on christmas day from the Big Brother Screen in the High Street.
Stowaway, Walthamstow says...
8:24pm Wed 17 Dec 08
Touchwood, Walthamstow says...
11:47pm Wed 17 Dec 08
Bert Small wrote:We've listened to enough rubbish from 'Loakes the clown', we don't need any more!!
This must have been planned for months? They have kept it all quite. Who authorised it and how early did the Council know about it. Maybe Loakes can make a statement in his alternative Queens Speech on christmas day from the Big Brother Screen in the High Street.
JuniorCarter, Walthamstow says...
9:48am Thu 18 Dec 08
Touchwood wrote:I'm no Loakes fan but he has professed his powerlessness - it is up to L&Q Housing who own the land. As it says in this article, a temporary structure doesn't need planning permission for a short period of time.
Bert Small wrote: This must have been planned for months? They have kept it all quite. Who authorised it and how early did the Council know about it. Maybe Loakes can make a statement in his alternative Queens Speech on christmas day from the Big Brother Screen in the High Street.We've listened to enough rubbish from 'Loakes the clown', we don't need any more!!
Try writing to L&Q - on their website the contact to write to is:
Mr S Baxter
Communications Manager
L&Q Group
Osborn House
Osborn Terrace
London SE3 9DR
annabel, London says...
9:53am Thu 18 Dec 08
enna, Walthamstow says...
11:23am Thu 18 Dec 08
You haven't responded to those who may need the car parking spaces outside thier homes. You seem to be the only person who is up for this event to take place so I assume the parking and congestion issues will not affect you. Maybe if you had ever lived near one of these churches you would have a little more sympathy for others who will have to deal with the problem outright. You seem to think that people are opposed to it becasue of it being a Christian event, if you read my post clearly you would know I am a committed Christian myself so why would I oppose it on those grounds. As Bert pointed out this is not a last mintue thing and to only inform people now is not on, also not to have secured the car park opposite is unacceptable.
leytonstoner, leyton says...
11:25am Thu 18 Dec 08
Bert Small, Leyton says...
12:28pm Thu 18 Dec 08
Loads of speaking Pastors music and things going on.
Sounds like it will be quite a party.
annabel, London says...
12:30pm Thu 18 Dec 08
Touchwood, Walthamstow says...
12:51pm Thu 18 Dec 08
sensibility, Chingford says...
12:14pm Fri 19 Dec 08
The perception is that these are going to be noisy events to the extent that local residents wont be able to carry out whatever they have planned without this impacting on them. The perception also appears from other comments on here to be justified. The quote in the local Guardian says that "The church has agreed to reduce the volume after midnight". So this intimates the church are expecting it to be noisy, my personal opinion is that the Church should do something to ensure the noise doesnt impact on residents. Apart from the last ight Walthamstow Stadium hadnt been full for years yet as residents we have heard different figures from 8,000 up to 15,000 people will be attending. That is a substantial number of people for such a venue and if things went wrong where would they all disburse to safely if there ways a fire etc? The noise from the dog stadium when open was minimal - an occasional cheer could be heard. It was not a question of continual noise. I understand the stadium was prevented from continuing to have banger racing etc years ago due to the continual noise for the few hours an evening that it was open. Whilst the parking zones were in force, although parking could be difficult it was controlled and that will not be there for the events so residents who drive are concerned. If so many vehicle do come into the area it wont be a question of just parking a few roads away and this could impact harshly on some of the disabled residents who drive too.
We have heard that they are having 3 religious services however I never known a religious service to start at 8pm and expect to finish at 4 in the morning and the Guardian in the heading states concerts, but later states they are services.
I have no problem with people celebrating any event, whether it be Christian, Hindu, Muslim etc or even just a birthday party. Locally people are very multi cultural and some residents do have Christmas and New Year get together and parties but residents tend to respect each other to the extent that our parties etc are loud enough for us to enjoy but quiet enough not to disturb the elderly, the sick and other residents in general.
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annabel, London says...
10:28am Wed 17 Dec 08
how can that resident say its going to be a sad christmas? are you homeless, living on the street with no food or shelter? THATS sad, not having to park a little way away from your house!
When I first read about this temporary church i thought what a daft idea,but now reading this blatant bigotry dressed up as issues about parking I think fair play to the church, they should have their services and celebrate what is the most important christian festival of the year.
they are having three services for heavens sake, just stop moaning and let them get on with it, or better still why dont you go and join in, or are you all too busy praying to the Gods of Shopping and Booze instead???