WALTHAM FOREST: Campaign group calls for improved roads for cyclists (From East London and West Essex Guardian Series)

Having driven as employment for over 30 years it seems to me that a LOT of cyclists have little or no regard for their own, or others, safety, especially the light jumpers, pavement riders and those who choose to undertake large vehicles. True that some motorists are a danger but the vast majority of us just want to get to where we are going without having to avoid, sometimes rather drastically, the suicidal action of these pedal-pushers!

Touchwood: "The vast majority of us just want to get to where we are going without having to avoid, sometimes rather drastically, the suicidal action of these pedal-pushers!"

Every time I go to the junction of High Street and Hoe Street, Walthamstow, I can see drivers piling through the red light at every phase.

My mrs calls Hoe Street the "assault course" as impatient drivers swing into and out of side roads without signalling or indicating routinely, many yakking away on mobiles etc.

Waltham Forest is very high up the list in London for uninsured, unMOTed drivers and hit-and-run incidents.

The Evening Standard surveyed key junctions in central London a while ago and found far more motor vehicles going through red lights than cyclists.

Let's finish on "pavement riders" that have across the UK killed two people in 10 years. Motorists kill around 50 people on pavements a year.

So, a significant minority of motorists are dangerous idiots. Probably the same proportion that are idiots among cyclists. But one lot are driving a massive steel box and the other lot aren't. Which should you be wary of? And which need more control on the roads?

Finally, as you may be able to guess, I'm the guy who put together the Movers & Shakers rides. I think it was really brave of councillors and council officers to actually be willing to ride the roads they're responsible for. And I've no doubt it gave some of them a very different perspective on why cyclists behave the way they do.

I'd extend the same challenge to you, Touchwood. Cycle around Waltham Forest for a week or two. Then come back and tell us what you think about cyclists and motorists!

PsiMonk wrote:
Touchwood: "The vast majority of us just want to get to where we are going without having to avoid, sometimes rather drastically, the suicidal action of these pedal-pushers!" Every time I go to the junction of High Street and Hoe Street, Walthamstow, I can see drivers piling through the red light at every phase. My mrs calls Hoe Street the "assault course" as impatient drivers swing into and out of side roads without signalling or indicating routinely, many yakking away on mobiles etc. Waltham Forest is very high up the list in London for uninsured, unMOTed drivers and hit-and-run incidents. The Evening Standard surveyed key junctions in central London a while ago and found far more motor vehicles going through red lights than cyclists. Let's finish on "pavement riders" that have across the UK killed two people in 10 years. Motorists kill around 50 people on pavements a year. So, a significant minority of motorists are dangerous idiots. Probably the same proportion that are idiots among cyclists. But one lot are driving a massive steel box and the other lot aren't. Which should you be wary of? And which need more control on the roads? Finally, as you may be able to guess, I'm the guy who put together the Movers & Shakers rides. I think it was really brave of councillors and council officers to actually be willing to ride the roads they're responsible for. And I've no doubt it gave some of them a very different perspective on why cyclists behave the way they do. I'd extend the same challenge to you, Touchwood. Cycle around Waltham Forest for a week or two. Then come back and tell us what you think about cyclists and motorists!

Cyclists and motorists are pretty much as bad (or as good) as each other. They are often selfish and will many try and break the law when they think they can get away with it.

I once saw a cyclist forcing a pedestrian off pavements into the path of a truck and ride on as if she couldn't care less. She was a work colleague. She was very very shocked when I caught up with her at the office and told her I had seen exactly how she behaved on her way to work. Off her bike butter wouldn't melt in her mouth - but it was as if she was another person on it. Many car drivers are the same.

PsiMonk wrote:
Touchwood: "The vast majority of us just want to get to where we are going without having to avoid, sometimes rather drastically, the suicidal action of these pedal-pushers!" Every time I go to the junction of High Street and Hoe Street, Walthamstow, I can see drivers piling through the red light at every phase. My mrs calls Hoe Street the "assault course" as impatient drivers swing into and out of side roads without signalling or indicating routinely, many yakking away on mobiles etc. Waltham Forest is very high up the list in London for uninsured, unMOTed drivers and hit-and-run incidents. The Evening Standard surveyed key junctions in central London a while ago and found far more motor vehicles going through red lights than cyclists. Let's finish on "pavement riders" that have across the UK killed two people in 10 years. Motorists kill around 50 people on pavements a year. So, a significant minority of motorists are dangerous idiots. Probably the same proportion that are idiots among cyclists. But one lot are driving a massive steel box and the other lot aren't. Which should you be wary of? And which need more control on the roads? Finally, as you may be able to guess, I'm the guy who put together the Movers & Shakers rides. I think it was really brave of councillors and council officers to actually be willing to ride the roads they're responsible for. And I've no doubt it gave some of them a very different perspective on why cyclists behave the way they do. I'd extend the same challenge to you, Touchwood. Cycle around Waltham Forest for a week or two. Then come back and tell us what you think about cyclists and motorists!

My guess is you are a lot younger than I. I have been both a cyclist and a driver, the latter for over 40 years. I totally agree with you that there are motorists who are a danger on the roads (and sometimes the pavements). I personally wouldn't let some of them near a car showroom let alone behind the wheel! But in all the time I have been driving I have not seen people put themselves in so much danger as a lot of cyclists do these days. I know the roads today are more hazardous than when I was riding and probably life is a lot quicker but personal safety should be paramount. Please don't tar all of us 'steel box' drivers with the same brush and please tell your cycling friends not to take unnecessary risks. As for my cycling, these days I think I would be a real hazard with my old arthritic bones!!

The roads are more dangerous now because they're more crowded. And because people drive foolishly given road conditions.

Originally you said the vast majority of motorists are safe. I said they're not, now you appear to agree with me. You can't have it every way!

Touchwood: "I have not seen people put themselves in so much danger as a lot of cyclists do these days."

On the other hand, I've no problem with your point that too many cyclists behave idiotically on the roads (and, yes, pavements). Too many do - but of those that do, few represent a danger to anyone other than themselves. But motorists who drive thoughtlessly, aggressively or dangeously are a serious threat to others. That's the difference I was trying to point out.

So rather than pointing the finger at cyclists who behave stupidly, I believe it's high time we pointed the finger at the far more dangerous car drivers who behave stupidly.

PsiMonk wrote:
Touchwood: "The vast majority of us just want to get to where we are going without having to avoid, sometimes rather drastically, the suicidal action of these pedal-pushers!"

Every time I go to the junction of High Street and Hoe Street, Walthamstow, I can see drivers piling through the red light at every phase.

My mrs calls Hoe Street the "assault course" as impatient drivers swing into and out of side roads without signalling or indicating routinely, many yakking away on mobiles etc.

Waltham Forest is very high up the list in London for uninsured, unMOTed drivers and hit-and-run incidents.

The Evening Standard surveyed key junctions in central London a while ago and found far more motor vehicles going through red lights than cyclists.

Let's finish on "pavement riders" that have across the UK killed two people in 10 years. Motorists kill around 50 people on pavements a year.

So, a significant minority of motorists are dangerous idiots. Probably the same proportion that are idiots among cyclists. But one lot are driving a massive steel box and the other lot aren't. Which should you be wary of? And which need more control on the roads?

Finally, as you may be able to guess, I'm the guy who put together the Movers & Shakers rides. I think it was really brave of councillors and council officers to actually be willing to ride the roads they're responsible for. And I've no doubt it gave some of them a very different perspective on why cyclists behave the way they do.

I'd extend the same challenge to you, Touchwood. Cycle around Waltham Forest for a week or two. Then come back and tell us what you think about cyclists and motorists!

What a nonsense attitude. Cyclists are as bad as horse-riders. Totally inappropriate modes of transport for modern roads.
For cyclists to be safe they need physically segregated lanes - not just some paint on the tarmac.
If they want to use the road then they must adhere to road signs. Just becuase some car drivers dont bother it is not a reason for cyclists to not bother.
Cyclists are far more arrogant than car drivers. And any cyclist that tries to undertake a bendy bus or juggernaut is just plain stupid.