LEYTON: Women 'forced to cover up' at summer fete (From East London and West Essex Guardian Series)

Sounds like North Korea.

This is a ridiculous state of affairs. I really do hope that our council tax hasn't helped fund this event and the T-shirts!. Guardian, can you find out and let us know?
I find women who are completely covered up from top to toe in the summer heat, inappropriately dressed. But in this society it is their right to dress the way they want.
So get real Mr Hussain & Noor Ul Islam - this is England not Saudia Arabia.
What a fantastic way to alienate the non Muslim and liberal Muslim community.

The Daily Mail will love this story.

this is such a disgusting state of affairs how dare we get told how to dress in our own christian country this is all becoming a joke what the hell is waltham forest playing at this is britain not a muslim country well not yet anyway but do you know what we only have ourselfs to blame we could never as britains go to another country and demand things to be run our way i am so **** off about how our country in no longer ours what about our culture come on britain we have to stop this now and it is not racist not by a long way this is a free country we should be permitted to wear what we want if us as british asked them to dress like us there would be a uproar we would get called racist and all sorts but when it aimed at us we can do nothing it is so not right

could this been seen as racial discrimination I wonder?

sensibility wrote:
could this been seen as racial discrimination I wonder?

yes i believe it is against british people if we treated them like this we would be arrested for racisim it is so not right

there is a carribean carnival on sunday the 10th july dress code is what ever you want

You aren't free to wear what you want in Britain. Many institutions including work places, nightclubs and private functions impose dress codes. This was a private event and they are well within their rights to impose a dress code.

Kareem wrote:
You aren't free to wear what you want in Britain. Many institutions including work places, nightclubs and private functions impose dress codes. This was a private event and they are well within their rights to impose a dress code.

this is a british christian country and all muslims do is allinate themselfs it does not stop muslim men ogle at non muslim women and if our council taxes funded this then we have a right to complain and it was a community event not private

Sorry folks but, much as I deplore this sort of nonsense in a modern western society, if you don't like the rules, don't join the club. This was evidently a private function but open to the community on the organisers' terms. I guess one might have grounds for complaint for sex discrimination if men in shorts or singlets were treated differently to the women in vest tops and mini-skirts, But, frankly, who could be bothered? Just vote with your feet!

I thought Britain was a secular country. Apart from inside churches where exactly does Christianity exist in the community?

It's a funny man who gets turned on by shoulders. But then again just look at all the Muslim grooming gangs up North and you'll see there is problem with the culture and what they perceive as offense and how a women should dress in Public.

Kareem wrote:
I thought Britain was a secular country. Apart from inside churches where exactly does Christianity exist in the community?

it is a christian country just our clowns in parliment give to much freedom in france muslim women are not even allowed to cover their faces so i think britain is tolerant and as i said it is a christian country so please get your facts right if you dont like it shut the dam door behind you, it is people with your mentality that causes racisim,and as previous reader said it sad if weak men get excited by a pair of shoulders then they have issues that need seeing to

Kareem,
I'm very sure you would have a different opinion if they banned the Burqa in Britain as France did.
Britain is multi cultural and we accept the wearing of the Burqa.
As far as I am concerned, it would appear that this function employed a method of reverse discrimination as the event was open as a "community" event. Does this mean that the function was therefore limited to a community that does not wish to integrate into British society?

Bentley005 wrote:
Kareem,
I'm very sure you would have a different opinion if they banned the Burqa in Britain as France did.
Britain is multi cultural and we accept the wearing of the Burqa.
As far as I am concerned, it would appear that this function employed a method of reverse discrimination as the event was open as a "community" event. Does this mean that the function was therefore limited to a community that does not wish to integrate into British society?

well said

Well, Kareem, you certainly seem to have stirred up a hornet's nest here! Isn't it interesting how little it takes for the mask of 'Christianity' (capital C please Sallyma - show some respect!) and 'tolerance' to slip! If Britain were truly either of these things this whole matter of head coverings etc wouldn't matter that much. I agree with you that we are, in fact, a secular society but we like to hide behind our Established Church of England and our Head of State who is also Supreme Governor of that Church and 'Defender of the Faith' to pretend otherwise - when it suits! This is all the most dreadful cant and hypocrisy. And isn't it interesting that we live in a country whose Head of State is a woman who regularly covers her hair with a headscarf and profess to follow a religion whose leader's own sainted mother, Mary, is always depicted with a veil over her hair? People can be very selective in their prejudices.

Its about time this stopped. was this event held on a muslim property?-NO. Was it part funded by this borough?-YES. Will the takings from profits made come back into the wider community or JUST the Muslim one then? Please Guardian find out for us-if you're not scared of rocking the boat that is. We Christians have always welcomed other religions. We have not dictated to them they cannot continue their ways as is their want. Why the devil should they be allowed to dictate. If thats the requirement-fine, let them fund it fully, in premises they have paid for without our taxes we have paid over the years, and then anybody visiting would be fully cognisant off exactly where their contributions were going, and presumably accepting of it.

well said

You mean to tell me this was funded/part funded by the local Authority under the guise of a community event? An event where Islamo-fascists dictate to women what is suitable under some form of Islamic Dress Code? I thought only this type of behaviour only went on in the Islamic State of Tower Hamlets under Lutfur Rahman.

Sam Hain wrote:
Well, Kareem, you certainly seem to have stirred up a hornet's nest here! Isn't it interesting how little it takes for the mask of 'Christianity' (capital C please Sallyma - show some respect!) and 'tolerance' to slip! If Britain were truly either of these things this whole matter of head coverings etc wouldn't matter that much. I agree with you that we are, in fact, a secular society but we like to hide behind our Established Church of England and our Head of State who is also Supreme Governor of that Church and 'Defender of the Faith' to pretend otherwise - when it suits! This is all the most dreadful cant and hypocrisy. And isn't it interesting that we live in a country whose Head of State is a woman who regularly covers her hair with a headscarf and profess to follow a religion whose leader's own sainted mother, Mary, is always depicted with a veil over her hair? People can be very selective in their prejudices.

how dare you tell me to have respect i do respect, my own child is muslim but i have educated him to respect other faiths and not to judge people especially on what they wear, i am sure like me most people would agree it is about worshiping god were does it say in the koran that we must look down on people because of what they wear or in this case what we dont please remember only god can judge so please get your facts right before commenting, this is not about racisim it is about respecting a countries culture and this is not british culture so i will politlty say do one, and it is culture that muslim woman cover up not religion and silly men who like to dominate women god said men and women are equal in all faiths have you even read the koran or for that matter the bible

Shannonwrght, there's no reference to children's dress, unless you mean the adult "children" referred to in this story.

HAHA i read the online paper and always find the same bunch of people commenting -and some of you are clearly ignorant and have no idea about other peoples religion - and go by your stereotypical views - if you look at religion and religious beliefs - the key principles of christianity, islam and judaism are the same. Shannonwirght - or whatever ur name is - where is their mention of a 9 year old girl?? and if your trying to imply thats what muslims do then one can argue that your wrong and what about christians - the form of christianity known as mormons - Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - who believe it is exceptable to have 30/40 odd wives and it doesnt matter how old these wives are, as men can do what they want.. - im not argueing or trying to be disrespectful - my point is no religion agrees or says such things are acceptable - however in every religion you are going to find people that misinterpret what their religion states for their own benefit, which i think has happened here. I dont agree with whats happened at this event - although i was present and had on 3 quater length jeans and a t shirt i was not asked to leave/change clothing. I dont think people should start bringing religion into these debates ,as thats where things go wrong and divided start to occur in the community.

This issue has been taken totally out of context. If someone could actually explain to me what British culture is I would be grateful. Is it the constant sexualisation of our society referenced by the pressures on teenage girls to to dress in a certain way or is it the binge drinking culture that has so effected our youth. I'd like to reclaim some traditional British values of modesty and decency and applaud noor ul islam for making a stand for what they believe in which is not something I disagree with. From my knowledge this was not an event funded by the council and hence the event organisers are free to determine the dress code. I am going to watch middlesex vs surrey tomorrow at lords and in order to enter the historic pavilion I shall be wearing a jacket and a tie as per the rules, is this an afront to British culture? Lets not jump on the Muslim bashing bandwagon and step back and anlayse the ills that are affecting our society as a whole.

Kareem refers to this as a private event. If that was the case what is Waltham Forest doing contributing to the funding?

Much as I agree that many institutions have dress codes, they ensure that these are widely publicised.

I would disagree with Kareems statement "You arent free to wear what you want in Britain". Everyone is free to wear what they like. There is no law stating e.g shoulders cannot be bear, legs have to be covered etc and people have a choice as to whether or not they abide by any dress code implemented by a workplace and the choice whether or not to attend a function with a particular dress code.

I am sure the whole situation could have been completely avoided if the dress code for the event had been clearly stated on all the publicity material.

Sallyma thank you for advising on the dress code for the forthcoming carnival.

If these women felt that strongly about NOT wearing the T Shirts then they should have refused. I'm sure this is something you CANNOT be arrested for, as stated in the article. Stand up for what you think is right, especially if public funding was used.

I was at this function on Sunday. I have asked about these points and conclude:

i) This was a private function. No public funds were used (neither from local or central government) (sighs of relief all round?).

ii) dress code was advertised before hand and on a large banner at the entrance.

iii) If people are not happy with the rules, stay away. No one will agree with everything. I can't going to the local nightclub with white trainers, WF Guardian could you write an article about this please?

iv) This is not an arrestable offence as far as I know.

v) If you disagree with the rules, saying it is wrong, that is fine as your opinion. However, if you are going to use the "Christian country" argument, please find out about what Christianity says about dress first.

We want to believe this is a Christian country, but is it?

I spoke to my neighbour who is a fairly traditional muslim and he said that the folk at Noor Ul Islam are, in his words "a bit bonkers!"
They are not about integrating with the wider community and have their own schools and muslim swimming sessions at Leyton Lagoon for both men and women!

If this was a privately funded event then I suppose they can determine the dress code. But it is completely outrageous if there was any council money put into this event.

Also, from now on the council should NOT have any dealings with Noor Ul Islam and work with more moderate Islamic groups.

sallyma wrote:

Sam Hain wrote: Well, Kareem, you certainly seem to have stirred up a hornet's nest here! Isn't it interesting how little it takes for the mask of 'Christianity' (capital C please Sallyma - show some respect!) and 'tolerance' to slip! If Britain were truly either of these things this whole matter of head coverings etc wouldn't matter that much. I agree with you that we are, in fact, a secular society but we like to hide behind our Established Church of England and our Head of State who is also Supreme Governor of that Church and 'Defender of the Faith' to pretend otherwise - when it suits! This is all the most dreadful cant and hypocrisy. And isn't it interesting that we live in a country whose Head of State is a woman who regularly covers her hair with a headscarf and profess to follow a religion whose leader's own sainted mother, Mary, is always depicted with a veil over her hair? People can be very selective in their prejudices.

how dare you tell me to have respect i do respect, my own child is muslim but i have educated him to respect other faiths and not to judge people especially on what they wear, i am sure like me most people would agree it is about worshiping god were does it say in the koran that we must look down on people because of what they wear or in this case what we dont please remember only god can judge so please get your facts right before commenting, this is not about racisim it is about respecting a countries culture and this is not british culture so i will politlty say do one, and it is culture that muslim woman cover up not religion and silly men who like to dominate women god said men and women are equal in all faiths have you even read the koran or for that matter the bible

Yes, Sallyma, I was brought up on the Holy Bible and I have copy of the Holy Qur'an, in an authorised English translation. The point you raise about religious injunctions to cover up versus cultural tradition is an interesting one. My understanding is that it is a matter of interpretation. There is an injunction to wear the hijab when outside the home in Sura' al-Ahzaab: 59 and another to cover one's 'zeenah', or beauty, in Sura' An-Nur: 31. The first injunction seems quite unequivocal but as to the second, the question is how one defines a womans beauty. Is it her hair, face, breasts? This is where theologians can argue until the cows come home and hypocritical bigots have a field-day. Ordinary folk, meanwhile, are left confused, frightened and at the mercy of bullying zealots. And that's why I'm an atheist!

First thing the title of this article: "Women forced to cover up"...

Defination of Forced is "Make a way through or into by physical strength or Power made operative against resistance or The use of physical power or violence to compel or restrain".

The article title should be "Women Chose to dress modest"...

Any organisation has the right the put a rule in place in their event... Noor Ul Islam chose to put a modest dress code in their event that's fine just like a Night Club in West End chooses to put a No Trainers, Shoes only rule at their event.

I believe it is poor character by the women for not respecting the rule of the event she CHOSE to attend.

Like any Night Club if you do not respect the rules of the club you do not get admission!!

According to the ticket sellers at the front gate, Nilgin Aslan, 51 (who this article is about) refused to pay entry fee and made a big scene at the entrance...

The organisation has the right to place an entry fee as they have paid to hire the venue...

The caribbean festival this weekend is being part funded by Aresnal Football Club with the aim to try to find new talent...

How easy it is to start a rumour and let it spread...

The Summer Fete was not funded by the council but by Noor Ul Islam Trust themselves (cost covered by sponsors).

there is something everyone should know this EVENT WAS PRIVATE the ground is owned by the council but the event was held by private organisation not a council public based organisation so therefore we have a right to enforce any rules we want to and to not admit anyone who doesn't follow the rules once again it was not funded by taxes it was privately funded and privately run but open to the public so we had a right to enforce any rules we wanted also we had police officers on the grounds patrolling but i doubt any volunteer said you would get arrested probably said you would be escorted of the grounds and not allowed re-entry

In the Koran it states that these codes of dress only apply to BELIEVERS.
'O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves, part of their outer garments.'
So for non Muslims this dress code shouldn't apply regardless of it being a private or publicly funded event.

It is a real shame the the Guardian very rarely reports on the good inter faith and community work of Noor Ul Islam be it with Whips Cross, Age UK, Faith Communities Group, Three faith forum, a number of State primary schools, Children with Leukaemia, borough's Big Clean Up, Barnados, its report on how Muslims need to get involved in the borough....... . Yet one privately funded event and its the end of the world because someone was asked to wear a t-shirt.

I forgot, good news doesn't sell papers - only sensationalism.

I don't see what Christianity has to do with this. I've tried to enter Christian churches in hot countries while wearing shorts and been required to cover my legs before being allowed in.

I think it's sad that an event inviting the community to attend has such over-the-top restrictions, but it's hardly as big a deal as some are turning it into, is it?

Greg Peck wrote:
I don't see what Christianity has to do with this. I've tried to enter Christian churches in hot countries while wearing shorts and been required to cover my legs before being allowed in.

I think it's sad that an event inviting the community to attend has such over-the-top restrictions, but it's hardly as big a deal as some are turning it into, is it?

This is Leyton cricket ground, hardly a place of worship!

Meaning of Forced: Produced under strain; not spontaneous and i would just like to ask somebody from the guardian to come down to Noor-Ul-Islam the address is: 717-723 High Road Leyton E.10 5AB between the time of 7:30- 9:15 Days i am available ar MONDAY, TUESDAY, THURSDAY go in to the yard there is a room right to the back of the yard come in and ask for Hassan and i will be able to provide with reliable information Thank You! PREFERABLY ON THURSDAY(so toady). just a warning there may be classes going on so just ask someone sitting down or on the side and once again THANK YOU.

Meaning of Forced: Produced under strain; not spontaneous and i would just like to ask somebody from the guardian to come down to Noor-Ul-Islam the address is: 717-723 High Road Leyton E.10 5AB between the time of 7:30- 9:15 Days i am available ar MONDAY, TUESDAY, THURSDAY go in to the yard there is a room right to the back of the yard come in and ask for Hassan and i will be able to provide with reliable information Thank You! PREFERABLY ON THURSDAY(so toady). just a warning there may be classes going on so just ask someone sitting down or on the side and once again THANK YOU.

Regardless of the event being private or not councils have a strict policy regarding usage. You can not hire council properties and advertise community events and be exclusive, sexist, racist or divisive.

We are a Christian country and those that say they do not see it are probably naive to the whole basis of Britishness.
Our whole system is set up and based around Christian values. Our Monarch is Christian. Our democratic process was set up around Christian values. Our national anthem is God save the Queen. Our second unofficial anthem is Jerusalem. In our courts you swear an oath on the bible, Our national religious festivals are Christian festivals.
Our social guidelines are based around Christian morals. For people to state that we are not a Christian country regardless of whether or not the masses practice religion is wrong. Its all around you day in day out like it or not the whole system is based around its historical basis in this country.
The English flag is one of a Christian Saint.
Its only relatively recently in history that we have a parliament of elected people until then it was the church.

We are liberal as a nation and desperately at our own expense sometimes that we try to welcome everyone in an inclusive manner and attempt to integrate along side them and hope that the integration is reflected back in the same manner.

This is really a minor issue indicative of a far larger problem. It would seem that whilst integration has worked in many places with many people there is an underlying ebb and flow pushing and pulling in different directions.

This group that has hired the community hall must understand that in Britain we do not have the same views of how women should dress. Accept it or do not run community events. To threaten arrest is outrageous. You could ask people to dress appropriately and hope they will. You can ask people top wear a dress code in a private club and refuse them entry into a private event without a problem as it is private however the dress code will be stricter for men than women.
You can ask for health and safety reason for people to wear clothing as there is a reason for doing so to prevent injury top themselves or others.
To instruct people to wear a dress code because of personal religious preference is in my opinion wrong. You can ask but that's it, to instruct is oppression in my opinion especially when its gender related.
I find women wearing full face cover offensive but have no option to accept it as different views and cultures I may not like it but that's it. So in my reasoning if my wife or daughter wish to wear an off the shoulder dress then that is their right. I would defend their right to do so and would not accept anyone telling them any different. Unless of course we were in a country whose culture requested it. In that case I would respect their culture and views. Until then we are in Britain and those that do not like it can only but learn to accept it. As someone else stated they can vote with their feet.

Meaning of Forced: Produced under strain; not spontaneous and i would just like to ask somebody from the guardian to come down to Noor-Ul-Islam the address is: 717-723 High Road Leyton E.10 5AB between the time of 7:30- 9:15 Days i am available ar MONDAY, TUESDAY, THURSDAY go in to the yard there is a room right to the back of the yard come in and ask for Hassan and i will be able to provide with reliable information Thank You! PREFERABLY ON THURSDAY(so toady). just a warning there may be classes going on so just ask someone sitting down or on the side and once again THANK YOU.

pan wrote:
Regardless of the event being private or not councils have a strict policy regarding usage. You can not hire council properties and advertise community events and be exclusive, sexist, racist or divisive.

We are a Christian country and those that say they do not see it are probably naive to the whole basis of Britishness.
Our whole system is set up and based around Christian values. Our Monarch is Christian. Our democratic process was set up around Christian values. Our national anthem is God save the Queen. Our second unofficial anthem is Jerusalem. In our courts you swear an oath on the bible, Our national religious festivals are Christian festivals.
Our social guidelines are based around Christian morals. For people to state that we are not a Christian country regardless of whether or not the masses practice religion is wrong. Its all around you day in day out like it or not the whole system is based around its historical basis in this country.
The English flag is one of a Christian Saint.
Its only relatively recently in history that we have a parliament of elected people until then it was the church.

We are liberal as a nation and desperately at our own expense sometimes that we try to welcome everyone in an inclusive manner and attempt to integrate along side them and hope that the integration is reflected back in the same manner.

This is really a minor issue indicative of a far larger problem. It would seem that whilst integration has worked in many places with many people there is an underlying ebb and flow pushing and pulling in different directions.

This group that has hired the community hall must understand that in Britain we do not have the same views of how women should dress. Accept it or do not run community events. To threaten arrest is outrageous. You could ask people to dress appropriately and hope they will. You can ask people top wear a dress code in a private club and refuse them entry into a private event without a problem as it is private however the dress code will be stricter for men than women.
You can ask for health and safety reason for people to wear clothing as there is a reason for doing so to prevent injury top themselves or others.
To instruct people to wear a dress code because of personal religious preference is in my opinion wrong. You can ask but that's it, to instruct is oppression in my opinion especially when its gender related.
I find women wearing full face cover offensive but have no option to accept it as different views and cultures I may not like it but that's it. So in my reasoning if my wife or daughter wish to wear an off the shoulder dress then that is their right. I would defend their right to do so and would not accept anyone telling them any different. Unless of course we were in a country whose culture requested it. In that case I would respect their culture and views. Until then we are in Britain and those that do not like it can only but learn to accept it. As someone else stated they can vote with their feet.

o please christian values like what exactly ? women walking around half naked,or isit drink,drink,drink,dr
ink,get hammered,drink,drink
....the bottom of the line is that this was a PRIVATE EVENT...the majority of clubs in the uk have dress codes...NO TRAINERS,NO HOODIES..thats a dress code,she knew the rules

I cant believe people in 2011 still use an ancient storybook to force women to wear certain things. Its all fairytales people, so just get along. If you dont like it - you can leave.

khan06 / hassan - if you want to put your side why don't you just contact the newsdesk rather than hoping your comment will be read? Or if you click on the reporter's name at the top of the story it goes to a link with their email address in it. Expecting them to read a comment and then to turn up at a time and place you specify is optimistic. Why not make it easier? :-)

Spacefan09 "o please christian values like what exactly ? women walking around half naked,or isit drink,drink,drink,dr

ink,get hammered,drink,drink

....the bottom of the line is that this was a PRIVATE EVENT...the majority of clubs in the uk have dress codes...NO TRAINERS,NO HOODIES..thats a dress code,she knew the rules"

"No trainers no hoodies" Obviously highlights the establishments that you are judging your opinions on with your statements about women, drink, drink ,drinking and sitting about half naked, well those kind of establishments are available in any country in the world. I would suggest raising your sights a little and looking at a broad spectrum of society.

If this was advertised as a community event then it was not private. If it was open to the public it was not private. Private is when you are either invited to attend a private event by invitation and or the event is for a set section of people for example clubs and association events or private parties.
I know this is hard to comprehend but if you call something a community event then it is or should be open to all.
This does highlight a problem in our towns and cities where groups of people encourage and unite into selective communities for example maybe Bangladeshi communities.
This then means when they might have a community event its possible to forget that the community is not just them. A wider broad spectrum is in existence in all areas.
It is possible to have more than one or two communities in an area and this highlights the problem with this type of liberal community building. Its all very well encouraging people to build their cultural base in a small community but there is no emphasis on ensuring that those groups must remain extrovert rather than introvert.
The do gooders are to scared to say no because they are scared of being called racist or Bigots. So they encourage community building and cultural expression and when it gets to a point that it possibly affects other communities and cultural expression they run and hide in fear of having to make a tough decision.

Maybe the event should have been advertised as a Muslim community event with the emphasis on which particular denomination of the faith it is.
This would have made it clear and if you chose to go then you would obviously expect whatever rules to be applied.
But this cant happen because they would not have been allowed to have specified the particular faith for fear of offending another so it has to be open to all.
If you cant get that then you have the problem. However you may get it but you dont have to like it.
That is why I think we should have one rule for all and get on with it, like it or lump it.
We have a system, we have rules. Why should one group get away with one thing and another get away with something else. Religion and its conflicts are beginning to undermine the justice system that we have.

For example you cant walk into a bank with a crash helmet on but you can with religious head gear.

You can not walk about in a shopping centre with a hoodie up (if you wish to) but you can with religious headgear.

You obviously are not supposed to have your shoulders exposed in this particular denomination of faith. But you can because you are in Britain.

Why are people talking about being "racist" when discussing faith?
Faith is a religion and a belief than in my limited knowledge does not have colour or creed boundaries so its not a race so how can it be racist?

Its not this particular groups fault actually its the fault of the balmy do gooders that cant bring themselves to say yes or no, right or wrong or you can or you cant for fear of offending anyone. No one really knows where they stand.

Its positive thought bringing about negative outcomes because of condescending, patronising liberalism.

If it was a private event with no funding from LBWF perhaps someone could let us know how much was paid for the hire of the ground and how much was paid to put up all the garish advertising along the cricket ground railings and the Coronation Garden railings. And who is allowing all the advertising along the Cricket Ground railings on the Leyton High Road side. It looks very untidy at such a historic site.

Spacefan 09 your argument about drink and women wearing skimpy clothes is such a boring anti-western cliche.
This is no more connected to Christianity than Islam is connected to:-
Pakistani muslim grooming gangs, the high rate of birth defects in the Pakistani muslim community due to consanguine marriages, the poor academic accomplishments of Pakistani and Bengali muslims boys, domestic violence, the high number of Pakistani and Bengali muslim men in British prisons etc, etc, etc.

Sean P wrote:
Spacefan 09 your argument about drink and women wearing skimpy clothes is such a boring anti-western cliche.
This is no more connected to Christianity than Islam is connected to:-
Pakistani muslim grooming gangs, the high rate of birth defects in the Pakistani muslim community due to consanguine marriages, the poor academic accomplishments of Pakistani and Bengali muslims boys, domestic violence, the high number of Pakistani and Bengali muslim men in British prisons etc, etc, etc.

i'm not muslim but it seems to me that england is only a "CHRISTIAN COUNTRY" when bad stories are printed about islam...that's the problem here...most people just want to make a fuss about nothing...she was told to cover up ? whats the big deal ? keep it moving

you are revealing your true colours if you ask me...who said anything about pakistanis and bengalis...i will have you no i'm not asian either the fact remains is what i've said is true...how are you going to turn up to someones event,kick off a fuss and go to a newspaper because someone asked you to cover yourself up...if you don't like it go somewhere else...tired of you english always kicking up a fuss about nothing...you always seem to moan and talk behind computers no action...do you think asians and mulims care abot you ? they sort out their community,they don't intergrate with you for you lot to be speaking like that...they don't care...i never hear asians moaning about whites always whites moaning about asians

I disagree, I think it's a disgrace that they had to cover up it's a public place and nowhere it said on the poster you had to, it was open to the community too. I would understand if it was in a Mosk, temple, church, or in there country but we are in London in our country it's discriminating and shouldn't be told what to wear in our own country!!!

Cherrydrop wrote:
I disagree, I think it's a disgrace that they had to cover up it's a public place and nowhere it said on the poster you had to, it was open to the community too. I would understand if it was in a Mosk, temple, church, or in there country but we are in London in our country it's discriminating and shouldn't be told what to wear in our own country!!!

In that case Cherrydrop - dont you think clubs should ban dress codes - clubs usually have dress codes of no trainers or "smart/casual" -so that should be banned to. reading through these remarks and things said isnt surprising, Islamaphobia does exist - and certain individuals and remarks above has proved that it does,

once again this was a privately funded event all the posters that were put up (the bright yellow ones) originally were advertising the fun fair that was aking place in abbots park the week before the summer fete and the same company that was doing that fun fair were doing the rides in the summer fete so they had permission from the council to put up those banners and the other fact of how we got the big rides who payed for it and were did the money come from, it was covered by sponsors the rides were payed for by sponsors and then a 50/50 split on all money made on rides is done so its 50 to the ride company for the fuel and operators and 50 to the event organisers to pay off and cover costs of tents and food etc. so once again the councils only part in this was nothing but we were visited by the mayor of Waltham Forest and congratulated on how brilliant the event was and finally to answer peoples questions this was a privately run event the council had no part although Noor Ul Islam is probably one of the only mosques in the borough that works with NHS and has a tonne of open days for non muslims to visit and find out about islam and works a number of other non muslim organisations to create a link for the future so for the final time this event was privately run but open to the public on leaflets it does say on the back please dress modestly or something along those lines and if this woman who claims to be muslim then she should now about how in islam we dress!!

I am very disappointed with the WF Guardian for publishing this article. Quite clearly this is yet another example of 'Islamophobic' reporting designed to reinforce negative stereo types of Muslims being 'Intolerant' and 'Forcing' their way of life onto 'us Christian Folk'..nothing could be further from the truth. This was a PRIVATE event which the organisers 'Noor Ul Islam' opened up to the whole community with the an entry condition that 'all persons' dress modestly - Thats muslim & Non-Muslim. Whats unusual about that? You have dress codes at all sort of events and venues and people make the choice of complying with those conditions if they wish to enter.
This was an annual family event that has been a feature of this great town for years. It does not attract the usual 'drunken thuggery', 'robberies' and 'anti-social behaviour' that plague similar events held elsewhere. It is an event which endeavours to provide a beautiful and pleasant experience for ALL persons, regardless of faith , race or creed.
All those individuals who posted negative comments here should take the offer of Noor Ul Islam and visit and speak to them. They are one of the most open and transparent Islamic organisations in WF.
WF Guardian is known and respected for it's factual reporting and being a honest community paper. It should never put itself in a position that makes it 'very' vulnerable to an investigation from ofcom - The title for this article is unforgivable and has the impact of fuelling a climate of hate against our Muslim community.

Face the truth your attitude is exactly the reason why people get irate about these issues because your attitude stifles discussion.
Its not being able to express dissatisfaction by words that ends up fuelling resentment.
Freedom of speech and freedom of expression is partly what made Britain Great. That means being able to discuss issues that you are not happy with.
I think the paper should be saluted for having the balls to print this. Its a breath of fresh air.
The people fuelling hatred against the Islamic community are the people that stifle discussion, sign our choices away by branding anyone that raises concerns as narrow minded, pretends that multiculturalism works and must be advanced at all costs.
Integration happens naturally if it is to happen at all. Legislation of the issue and political interference actually has an adverse effect in the long run.
How about rather than offering open days for everyone to see how this group works the leaders go out into their host society and see how the host society works? They then can see how they can tailor their views into the majority that is integration.
Your back to front outlook is fuelling hatred throughout Europe at the moment and you are doing an injustice to those you so passionately wish to protect.
Look at Trondheim in Norway, Malmo in Sweden, Holland, France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Hungary, Romania all areas that have tried to accommodate but have had enough of the constant push, push, push. Not content with being included such as this group obviously has they push, push, push for that little bit more.
They could of accepted the woman's right to wear what she wants couldn't they?
Then there would be no need for the article at all.
Why dont you jog off down to the group and apologise for everyone and everything give them everything you have in a bid to be inclusive.
Just dont apologise on my behalf or my parents or my Grandparents that fought to give the freedom of speech and expression from narrow minded people that hated those that didn't agree with them. Those that were preventing freedom of speech.
To prevent people from expressing dissatisfaction or concerns is no different. Your attitude just does it with a smile and a pretence that you love all. Worse in my opinion.

Once again, defenders of Noor Ul Islam's T-shirt policy, please refer to your holy book:-

Surat an-Nur 24:31
And tell the BELIEVING women to reduce some of their vision and guard their private parts and not to expose their adornment etc.

Surat al-Ahzab 33:59
'O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the BELIEVERS to bring down over themselves, part of their outer garments.'

It's too easy to reduce most people's comments on this forum to islamophobia. Most of us in this borough, live and work with a lot of decent hardworking muslim people.

I've worked in Saudi Arabia, where the Pakistani, Bangladeshi and African muslims are treated like dirt by their Arab muslim brothers and sisters.
Thankfully, this is not the case in this country.
Threatening the Guardian with the Ofcom stick is hilarious.

Let's face it Noor Ul Islam you were in the wrong. End of.

how can people call Britain their country firstly you didn't build it secondly it was given to us by god so i don't see how you have the right to call Britain your country

KHAN06 wrote:
how can people call Britain their country firstly you didn't build it secondly it was given to us by god so i don't see how you have the right to call Britain your country

Oh dear Mr Khan. You are now revealing your true colours.

In regards to God, here's a quote from Douglas Adams for you to ponder on.
'Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?'

"KHAN06 wrote:
"how can people call Britain their country firstly you didn't build it secondly it was given to us by god so i don't see how you have the right to call Britain your country "


So there you have it in black and white. The representative of this group reveals what his true thoughts are about Britain and the British.

Every penny spent trying to boost equality and good relations, every hour wasted by the do gooders, some that have posted on here trying to appease and pretend has been wasted. In your own words you have shown amazing ignorance and disrespect to my culture, ancestry, people and national identity.

I suggested in an earlier post that maybe it would be a good idea for this man to go out and see the community that they are in rather than getting the community to come and see them but as I expected that would be a waste of time because the mutual respect is not there.

Here is a little explanation

"Indigenous peoples, or Natives, are ethnic groups who are native to a land or region, especially before the arrival and intrusion of a foreign and possibly dominating culture. They are a group of people whose members share a cultural identity that has been shaped by their geographical region. A variety of names are used in various countries to identify such groups of people, but they generally are regarded as the "original inhabitants" of a territory or region. Their right to self-determination may be materially affected by the later-arriving ethnic groups.
The English (from Old English: Englisc) are a nation and ethnic group native to England, who speak English. The English identity is of early mediaeval origin, when they were known in Old English as the Anglecynn. England is now a country of the United Kingdom, and the majority of English people in England are British Citizens. Their ethnonym is derived from the Angles, a Germanic people originally from Northern Germany.
Historically, the English population are descended from several genetically similar peoples—the earlier Britons (or Brythons), the Germanic tribes that settled in the area, including Angles, Saxons, and Jutes, collectively known as the Anglo-Saxons, who founded what was to become England (from the Old English Englaland), and the later Danes, Normans and other groups. Following the Act of Union in 1707, in which the Kingdom of England became part of the Kingdom of Great Britain, English customs and identity became closely aligned with British customs and identity.
Today, some English people have recent forbears from other parts of the United Kingdom, while some are also descended from more recent immigrants from other European countries and from the Commonwealth. Through their position at the centre of the former British Empire, the English are the source of the English language, the parliamentary system, common law systems of many countries and a variety of the globe's most popular sports."

The term British isles was first recorded in England in I think 1577 by John Dee.
The British people are people that built this country share a common ancestry of Anglo-Saxon Celtic stock.

KHAN06 I am surprised that you wrote that piece and showed what you really feel but not shocked at your sentiment. I can not blame you for feeling the way you do when our silly liberal minded do gooders keep sending out mixed messages and attempting to please all.
I accept your choice of faith and have no problem with you practising it but I feel that maybe rather than your group attempting to raise awareness of your outlooks that attempting to raise your awareness of the culture and country that you are in may well do more to encourage understanding.

I respect your identity and believe it is important for all to have an individual identity but you would demand that I respect your culture and yet you have completely disregarded ours.

Firstly, Sean P you make a lot of sense.
Can someone please clarify whether this was a community event or a private event? If it was a community event I'm angered as it should welcome everyone, regardless of their beliefs and shouldn't prevent anyone attending if they flippin' dress different.

It's like the dated slogans outside pub... "No Gays, no Irish etc" THEY ARE DATED! So shouldn't be tolerated from anyone if it hinders anyone from doing something they are entitled to.

How ****ed off would people be if I ran a car boot sale, for example, and stopped muslims coming in unless they took off their headscarf or burqa??!!

I can't believe that people are still arguing about someone being asked to put on a t-shirt, haven't most of you got better things to do ? :-)))

spacefan09 wrote:

Sean P wrote: Spacefan 09 your argument about drink and women wearing skimpy clothes is such a boring anti-western cliche. This is no more connected to Christianity than Islam is connected to:- Pakistani muslim grooming gangs, the high rate of birth defects in the Pakistani muslim community due to consanguine marriages, the poor academic accomplishments of Pakistani and Bengali muslims boys, domestic violence, the high number of Pakistani and Bengali muslim men in British prisons etc, etc, etc.

i'm not muslim but it seems to me that england is only a "CHRISTIAN COUNTRY" when bad stories are printed about islam...that's the problem here...most people just want to make a fuss about nothing...she was told to cover up ? whats the big deal ? keep it moving

I think you're right about the whole 'Christian country' thing, spacefan09 - a convenient stick with which to beat others, especially Muslims. Pan makes the point that technically we are a Christian country, a point I myself made previously, but technicalities can be changed. All we need to do is dis-establish the Church of England and de-couple the monarchy (and hence the head of state) from 'Defence of the Faith' or become a republic and, bingo, we're a secular state - as, I might add, is Turkey, with a 99% Muslim population.

I am a relative of Mrs Aslan & I can tell you for a fact that this whole incident was staged. Mrs Aslan set out to cause controversy & make headlines for herself by telling the story she did. This family event has been going on for years and she knew FULLY WELL what the dress code was but she went out of her way to put Islam in a bad light. Even though she is a Muslim herself - she is not a practising muslim and is known for her ranting and raving at other members of the family who choose to cover up and wear headscarves. She is entitled to dress as she pleases but she has made a mockery of the Waltham Forest Guardian by making them include this story when deep down there is no substance to it and all she was trying to achieve was get her five minutes of fame and stick two fingers up at her relatives who follow the faith & who she wanted to outrage with her ridiculous claims. Bottom line is SHE SET OUT TO GET HERSELF SOME PRESS COVERAGE. Its a great shame on Waltham Forest Guardian that they didnt do their homework and check out the credibility & character of Mrs Aslan as those who know her know she is well known for seeking attention & always looking to put Islam down at every opportunity she gets. I just thought people should know the truth about what she set out to achieve and what her goals were. Its like someone going to a Naturist reserve and saying ' I didnt realise everyone there was going to be naked'!!!! PLEASE WAKE UP TO WHAT SHE WAS TRYING TO DO - IE STIR UP TROUBLE FOR MUSLIMS.

Sam Hain
Your view of changing the country as a technicality is a dream and why would you want to if you were not trying to establish another religion in its place?
The Christianity issue is not important to you but is to others.
Its not the small technicality that you portray and to state such a thing is unbelievably misleading and irresponsible.

We are a United Kingdom so England Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would have to agree.

We have a Monarchy that is the head of our political parliamentary and system that can not just be "voted out" Have you never heard of treason?

We have Sovereign nations such as the Isle of Man and commonwealth countries that can keep the Monarchy established.

Apart from the fact that the United Nations declaration of rights of the indigenous people could be invoked by the respective English, Irish, Scottish and Welsh to prevent the culture, and rights of our people from being eroded.

Then you have the European Union who really pull the strings, I can not see them letting democracy go to the people to decide to let them form a state that might reduce their revenue.

SO apart from that you may well then find a technicality to sort out.

It is unbelievable the amount of opinions about Britain and its set up there is, and how people know so little but have such strong opinions.

To much attention is paid to liberal political propaganda and media spin

Totaly agree with ya there Softhehammer. I live around the corner from this venue and am very familiar with this event. This has been going on for many many years with no issues at all. Some people are just too desperate to get a bit of notice and try to ruin it for others. The real fanatic is Ms Aslan herself who is trying to FORCE her views and opinions on others. If ANY british tax payer wants to hold an event public or private with a dress code they are fully entitled to do so. You are not forced to attend the event and you as a human being have something called a brain. I for one will not attend such an event as I like to drink and chat up women... there is glastonbury and other festivals for that, I don't need to start go on like a mad person just so I can get my mug in the paper to tarnish someone else's small harmless function. This country is not Saudia Arabia, we have freedoms and we protect our citizens beliefs and cater for them. We will be just as bad as the communists if we start to control peoples thoughts and thinking. Do me a favor Ms Aslan crawl back to the prehistoric hole you came from..

pan wrote:
Face the truth your attitude is exactly the reason why people get irate about these issues because your attitude stifles discussion.
Its not being able to express dissatisfaction by words that ends up fuelling resentment.
Freedom of speech and freedom of expression is partly what made Britain Great. That means being able to discuss issues that you are not happy with.
I think the paper should be saluted for having the balls to print this. Its a breath of fresh air.
The people fuelling hatred against the Islamic community are the people that stifle discussion, sign our choices away by branding anyone that raises concerns as narrow minded, pretends that multiculturalism works and must be advanced at all costs.
Integration happens naturally if it is to happen at all. Legislation of the issue and political interference actually has an adverse effect in the long run.
How about rather than offering open days for everyone to see how this group works the leaders go out into their host society and see how the host society works? They then can see how they can tailor their views into the majority that is integration.
Your back to front outlook is fuelling hatred throughout Europe at the moment and you are doing an injustice to those you so passionately wish to protect.
Look at Trondheim in Norway, Malmo in Sweden, Holland, France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Hungary, Romania all areas that have tried to accommodate but have had enough of the constant push, push, push. Not content with being included such as this group obviously has they push, push, push for that little bit more.
They could of accepted the woman's right to wear what she wants couldn't they?
Then there would be no need for the article at all.
Why dont you jog off down to the group and apologise for everyone and everything give them everything you have in a bid to be inclusive.
Just dont apologise on my behalf or my parents or my Grandparents that fought to give the freedom of speech and expression from narrow minded people that hated those that didn't agree with them. Those that were preventing freedom of speech.
To prevent people from expressing dissatisfaction or concerns is no different. Your attitude just does it with a smile and a pretence that you love all. Worse in my opinion.

Dearest pan, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever if individuals wish to criticise Islam or Muslims. I whole-heartedly welcome this and would encourage anyone to question anything they don’t understand or need clarification, without fear of being labeled an Islamophobe or racist. But one engages in discussions or debates it should be done in a civilised, sincere and non-bigoted manner - and this applies to all sides involved. It only makes sense. Why insult, belittle or abuse anyone?
But what I do take exception to is when the issue being discussed has been deliberately distorted/misreprese
nted or blatantly falsified to begin with.
Take the title of this article - ‘Women forced to cover up…’ – She was NOT FORCED to cover up.. she was probably asked, urged, encouraged, instructed or whatever but certainly NOT forced. Semantics are important and WF Guardian is responsible for their choice of words. And when an issue like this is discussed, with an obvious hint of venom and hatred in the comments, then I could be excused in considering the article and related comments as Islamophobic.

With regards to my reference to ofcom, I am not paranoid (or alone) when I claim that Islamophobia in the media is prevalent. Although the conduct of a minority of extremist Muslims do not help the cause, large sections of the British press are Islamophobic and this was judged to be true by an independent studies.
If you read Peter Oborne’s article – ‘The shameful Islamophobia at the heart of Britain's press’ - Published by the independent dated 07/07/2008. It states that a considerable number of stories about Muslims in Britain were either pure inventions or contained a grain of truth but were distorted. Channel 4 Dispatches commissioned the Cardiff School of Journalism, Media and Cultural Studies, to examine reporting of Muslim issues. The team analysed some 974 stories and found that approximately two-thirds of all "news hooks" for stories about Muslims involved either terrorism (some 36 per cent of stories); religious issues such as Sharia law, highlighting cultural differences between British Muslims and others (22 per cent); or Muslim extremism, concerning figures such as Anjum Chodhary. These stories all portrayed Muslims as a source of trouble. By contrast only 5 per cent of stories were based on problems facing British Muslims.
I have absolutely faith in multiculturalism, social cohesion and integration but those voices that ask for eradicating fundamental beliefs of a community so that they ‘assimilate’ is unreasonable and unhelpful. Britain and our local communities are facing a growing number of social-economic ills and challenges – such as child pregnancies, binge drinking, anti-social behavior and disrespect for senior citizens and faiths – Whether Islam, Christianity etc - plays an important part in provided answers and solutions to a lot of our problems. Love you all.

I would like to add some focus here. The issue is not so much religion but INTEGRATION.Please do come to our country if you are prepared to accept our basic values.(As I would do if I were in your country).Regretfully
, the majority of Islamic countries do not allow citizens to enjoy freedom of expression. Therefore you should embrace the freedom that you have in this country and accept our core values.
To quote David Cameron:
David Cameron has launched himself into the debate on 'Britishness' claiming that young Muslims are becoming more separated from society than their parents.
He claimed the UK was facing a growing problem of "cultural separatism" where the next generation of British Muslims were further away from mainstream society than the previous generation.
In an attempt to remedy the problem the Tory leader has said advocated lessons on "being British" and said all immigrants should speak English.
Warning that the country had failed to build a sense of common citizenship Mr Cameron said Britain should follow the example of the US, which had succeeded in achieving a real sense of "what it means to be an American.
This is not only a British problem and I quote Angela Merkel:
Attempts to build a multicultural society in Germany have "utterly failed," according to Chancellor Angela Merkel.

"This approach has failed, utterly failed," said Merkel, head of the Christian Democratic Union (CDU), in a speech to the party's young people's association in Potsdam on Saturday. She added that not enough was done in the past to support the movement.
German-speaking migrants still welcome

Seehofer's comments were met with great support
In her speech, Merkel stressed that immigrants must learn to speak German in order to be able to compete on the job market.

"Those who want to take part must not only obey our laws, they must also master our language," she said.

Merkel's comments come a week after a visit to Berlin by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan. The two leaders said they would work to improve the integration of the some 2.5 million members of the Turkish community in Germany.

Turkish President Abdullah Gul told the Sueddeutsche Zeitung that Turks living in Germany should learn to speak fluent and accent-free German.

I don't believe that anyone is asking that immigrants abandon their cultural heritage and identity, as the diversity of cultures in the UK has enriched our society in many ways.
However,the lack of an integrated society can only lead to future conflicts in this country.

most muslims in this country speak english so whats your point ? most muslims in this country pay tax and contribute heavily to the economy..(doctors,la
wyers,solicitors,chi
cken shops,post offices,petrol stations,) so again what is your point ?...no one should have to accept islamaphobia or any form or racism because they don't want to mix,get drunk,party,go to football games,go to pubs etc with most brits

pan wrote:
Sam Hain Your view of changing the country as a technicality is a dream and why would you want to if you were not trying to establish another religion in its place? The Christianity issue is not important to you but is to others. Its not the small technicality that you portray and to state such a thing is unbelievably misleading and irresponsible. We are a United Kingdom so England Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would have to agree. We have a Monarchy that is the head of our political parliamentary and system that can not just be "voted out" Have you never heard of treason? We have Sovereign nations such as the Isle of Man and commonwealth countries that can keep the Monarchy established. Apart from the fact that the United Nations declaration of rights of the indigenous people could be invoked by the respective English, Irish, Scottish and Welsh to prevent the culture, and rights of our people from being eroded. Then you have the European Union who really pull the strings, I can not see them letting democracy go to the people to decide to let them form a state that might reduce their revenue. SO apart from that you may well then find a technicality to sort out. It is unbelievable the amount of opinions about Britain and its set up there is, and how people know so little but have such strong opinions. To much attention is paid to liberal political propaganda and media spin

'Struth, Pan, get a grip! A republic a dream? No, in a democracy it's perfectly achievable. A political party includes it in their manifesto and, if elected, they work to get it through the parliamentary process until it becomes law. I'd hardly be trying to establish another religion when I've already made it plain I'm an atheist, now would I? And I'm not trying to abolish religion, or interfere with anyone's freedom to practise their religion, simply calling for the dis-establishment of the Church of England - a perfectly respectable and long-standing campaign. As for treason, come off it! Calling for a republic is hardly a hanging offence in the modern age! If it were the Green Party would be strung up - and even they are only calling for an end to the constitutional role of the monarchy. As I understand their policy we could still have a royal family (and presumably the monarch could continue to be Supreme Governor of a dis-established Church of England) but they would lose their constitutional role. As to the UK, you might not have noticed but it's already in the process of breaking up. Again, this is no 'God-given' immemorial system of governance in the British Isles, it's a fairly recent political settlement which can just as easily be dismantled to suit modern realities. Until you sort out some of your muddled thinking on this issue I'll take no lessons from you on British constitutional history, thank you. (Gosh, what a long way we've strayed from the original story!)

for goodness sake this is britain we can wear what the hell we want it has got nothing to do with race or colour it has to do with our rights as british to wear what we want when we want and for a previous comment calling us you people we are the british people our country our rules like it or lump it thats how it goes my neighbours tryed to prevent me sunathing in my garden in shorts and tshirt and bbqing pork ribs are they mad and they go to that same mosque this is our country the good and bad and all that goes with it and as for british people only wanting to get drunk and show our bodies so what muslims are not god and only he can judge try standing outside some of the secondry schools you will see plenty muslim gang memebers and the so called good girls snocking boys and smoking in their cultural dress so accept it is evolution that is moveing on not britains being awkward my children wore what the wanted to a degree and they perfectly ok and went to uni etc so leave it alone this is BRITAIN full stop

for goodness sake this is britain we can wear what the hell we want it has got nothing to do with race or colour it has to do with our rights as british to wear what we want when we want and for a previous comment calling us you people we are the british people our country our rules like it or lump it thats how it goes my neighbours tryed to prevent me sunathing in my garden in shorts and tshirt and bbqing pork ribs are they mad and they go to that same mosque this is our country the good and bad and all that goes with it and as for british people only wanting to get drunk and show our bodies so what muslims are not god and only he can judge try standing outside some of the secondry schools you will see plenty muslim gang memebers and the so called good girls snocking boys and smoking in their cultural dress so accept it is evolution that is moveing on not britains being awkward my children wore what the wanted to a degree and they perfectly ok and went to uni etc so leave it alone this is BRITAIN full stop

sallyma wrote:
for goodness sake this is britain we can wear what the hell we want it has got nothing to do with race or colour it has to do with our rights as british to wear what we want when we want and for a previous comment calling us you people we are the british people our country our rules like it or lump it thats how it goes my neighbours tryed to prevent me sunathing in my garden in shorts and tshirt and bbqing pork ribs are they mad and they go to that same mosque this is our country the good and bad and all that goes with it and as for british people only wanting to get drunk and show our bodies so what muslims are not god and only he can judge try standing outside some of the secondry schools you will see plenty muslim gang memebers and the so called good girls snocking boys and smoking in their cultural dress so accept it is evolution that is moveing on not britains being awkward my children wore what the wanted to a degree and they perfectly ok and went to uni etc so leave it alone this is BRITAIN full stop

excuse me can you wear what you want when you go to a club ? can you wear hoodies...NO...can you wear trainers...NO..when you work 9 times out of ten do you have to wear suites YES...could you turn up to work in a hoody..NO..NUFF SAID

spacefan09 wrote:

sallyma wrote:
for goodness sake this is britain we can wear what the hell we want it has got nothing to do with race or colour it has to do with our rights as british to wear what we want when we want and for a previous comment calling us you people we are the british people our country our rules like it or lump it thats how it goes my neighbours tryed to prevent me sunathing in my garden in shorts and tshirt and bbqing pork ribs are they mad and they go to that same mosque this is our country the good and bad and all that goes with it and as for british people only wanting to get drunk and show our bodies so what muslims are not god and only he can judge try standing outside some of the secondry schools you will see plenty muslim gang memebers and the so called good girls snocking boys and smoking in their cultural dress so accept it is evolution that is moveing on not britains being awkward my children wore what the wanted to a degree and they perfectly ok and went to uni etc so leave it alone this is BRITAIN full stop

excuse me can you wear what you want when you go to a club ? can you wear hoodies...NO...can you wear trainers...NO..when you work 9 times out of ten do you have to wear suites YES...could you turn up to work in a hoody..NO..NUFF SAID

as i said this is britain spacefan if you dont like it go join star trek bloody fool i am british and proud of it and will do what i want were i want simple so go away with your negative comments if you are british spacefan you should be ashamed if not get lost BRITISH and so proud

spacefan09 wrote:
most muslims in this country speak english so whats your point ? most muslims in this country pay tax and contribute heavily to the economy..(doctors,la

wyers,solicitors,chi

cken shops,post offices,petrol stations,) so again what is your point ?...no one should have to accept islamaphobia or any form or racism because they don't want to mix,get drunk,party,go to football games,go to pubs etc with most brits

Spacefan09.
You seem to think that the whole of Britain sits in a pub and gets drunk every night of the week. What a short sighted and idiotic appraisal of the British community that has a depth of culture and contributes widely to society in general worldwide.Your comments are short sighted and reveal that your perception of British society is blinkered and unjust.
You are completely out of touch and I would encourage you to perhaps visit some of our iconic institutions like the National Gallery or the Museum of Natural History.
We don't sit in the pub every night and get drunk. You are an idiot!

SofTheHammer wrote:
I am a relative of Mrs Aslan & I can tell you for a fact that this whole incident was staged. Mrs Aslan set out to cause controversy & make headlines for herself by telling the story she did. This family event has been going on for years and she knew FULLY WELL what the dress code was but she went out of her way to put Islam in a bad light. Even though she is a Muslim herself - she is not a practising muslim and is known for her ranting and raving at other members of the family who choose to cover up and wear headscarves. She is entitled to dress as she pleases but she has made a mockery of the Waltham Forest Guardian by making them include this story when deep down there is no substance to it and all she was trying to achieve was get her five minutes of fame and stick two fingers up at her relatives who follow the faith & who she wanted to outrage with her ridiculous claims. Bottom line is SHE SET OUT TO GET HERSELF SOME PRESS COVERAGE. Its a great shame on Waltham Forest Guardian that they didnt do their homework and check out the credibility & character of Mrs Aslan as those who know her know she is well known for seeking attention & always looking to put Islam down at every opportunity she gets. I just thought people should know the truth about what she set out to achieve and what her goals were. Its like someone going to a Naturist reserve and saying ' I didnt realise everyone there was going to be naked'!!!! PLEASE WAKE UP TO WHAT SHE WAS TRYING TO DO - IE STIR UP TROUBLE FOR MUSLIMS.

softhehammer who ever you are you aint no friend or family of mrs aslan otherwise you wouldnt be direspecting her like that and saying them things about her im her niece and she has every right to say how she feels i would of done the same, i would of understood if it was in a temple etc but its in an open air field open to the COMMUNITY, NOT PRIVATE SO WE SHOULDNT BE TOLD WHAT TO WEAR.

wyers,solicitors,chi


cken shops,post offices,petrol stations,) so again what is your point ?...no one should have to accept islamaphobia or any form or racism because they don't want to mix,get drunk,party,go to football games,go to pubs etc with most brits
Now that is an interesting point wyers. Am I to understand that you do not wish to culturally interact with "most Brits" as it would appear that your comment implies that you are not British? Then what are you?

Now that is an interesting point wyers. Am I to understand that you do not wish to culturally interact with "most Brits" as it would appear that your comment implies that you are not British? Then what are you? Bye the way,I apologise for the error in the last posting. I was down the pub, had 20 pints of beer, was arrested for drunk and disorderly but fortunately regained my composure with a swift dose of Mozart and the Four Seasons! AHH culture!culture!

Bentley005 wrote:
Now that is an interesting point wyers. Am I to understand that you do not wish to culturally interact with "most Brits" as it would appear that your comment implies that you are not British? Then what are you? Bye the way,I apologise for the error in the last posting. I was down the pub, had 20 pints of beer, was arrested for drunk and disorderly but fortunately regained my composure with a swift dose of Mozart and the Four Seasons! AHH culture!culture!

Silly me. The beer has gone to my head. I mean Vivaldi!!!!

well if anyone would like to come to the e10 club in leabridge road you can see what good muslims do they are not allowed to drink alcahol or smoke well someone is in disguise as there is men and women (muslim)doing that now sneakley down my street oh dear i rest my case oooops

Cherrydrop wrote:

SofTheHammer wrote:
I am a relative of Mrs Aslan & I can tell you for a fact that this whole incident was staged. Mrs Aslan set out to cause controversy & make headlines for herself by telling the story she did. This family event has been going on for years and she knew FULLY WELL what the dress code was but she went out of her way to put Islam in a bad light. Even though she is a Muslim herself - she is not a practising muslim and is known for her ranting and raving at other members of the family who choose to cover up and wear headscarves. She is entitled to dress as she pleases but she has made a mockery of the Waltham Forest Guardian by making them include this story when deep down there is no substance to it and all she was trying to achieve was get her five minutes of fame and stick two fingers up at her relatives who follow the faith & who she wanted to outrage with her ridiculous claims. Bottom line is SHE SET OUT TO GET HERSELF SOME PRESS COVERAGE. Its a great shame on Waltham Forest Guardian that they didnt do their homework and check out the credibility & character of Mrs Aslan as those who know her know she is well known for seeking attention & always looking to put Islam down at every opportunity she gets. I just thought people should know the truth about what she set out to achieve and what her goals were. Its like someone going to a Naturist reserve and saying ' I didnt realise everyone there was going to be naked'!!!! PLEASE WAKE UP TO WHAT SHE WAS TRYING TO DO - IE STIR UP TROUBLE FOR MUSLIMS.

softhehammer who ever you are you aint no friend or family of mrs aslan otherwise you wouldnt be direspecting her like that and saying them things about her im her niece and she has every right to say how she feels i would of done the same, i would of understood if it was in a temple etc but its in an open air field open to the COMMUNITY, NOT PRIVATE SO WE SHOULDNT BE TOLD WHAT TO WEAR.

I wasn't disrespecting her but RESPECTING the rest of society by informing them of what she is all about & what her agenda was that day. Of course she has the right to say how she feels - everyone has a right to express their opinions and air their views - BUT SHE WENT TO AN EVENT WITH PREMEDITATED INTENTIONS & A HIDDEN AGENDA to cause trouble. SHE KNEW IT WAS A PRIVATE ANNUAL EVENT & WHAT WAS EXPECTED in terms of the dress code . She was well aware it takes place ONCE a year. I spoke to her before she went & thats why was not surprised at all when this article came out.

are you idiots still talking about this?? just been reading some of the comments and its clear that rasicm still exists in todays multi cultural society - no wonder certain groups in todays society dont want to integrate - maybe it because of some of you narrow minded racists that they feel they have to remain isolated...

Sallyma, you are quick to point out the negative aspects of Muslim life, but you forget that Muslims contribute substantially to the UK economy and to society as a whole, don't judge every Muslim by the standards of the few who have lost their way.

You talk about going to E10 and seeing muslims up to no good yet thousands of Muslims attend Friday prayers, surely these should outweigh the bad ?

Going back to the original story , she wasn't forced to wear the shirt and was looking to create a scene.
It's not unusual for events to impose a dress code I feel that this story has been blown out of proportion.

sallyma wrote:
well if anyone would like to come to the e10 club in leabridge road you can see what good muslims do they are not allowed to drink alcahol or smoke well someone is in disguise as there is men and women (muslim)doing that now sneakley down my street oh dear i rest my case oooops

Are you serious? That place has taken ages to be rennovated, after each event they've held there lately results in bulging binliners on the edge of the road outside it, and there's been two (or three, lost count) shootings there - Where one bounced off a baby's pram narrowly avoiding the hostile crowd that awaited outside.

Similar to this story everyone's commenting on really, I don't feel welcome to hold an event or attend there due to the lack of social integration that people have these days.

On a lighter note - They really need wider comment boxes...

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