WALTHAMSTOW: EDL march 'will inflame tensions'

East London and West Essex Guardian Series: A 2009 EDL march in Harrow. A 2009 EDL march in Harrow.

TENSIONS could rise in the community if far-right group the English Defence League (EDL) is allowed to march through Walthamstow, critics claim.

Both the Waltham Forest Anti-Cuts Union and Trades Council have criticised plans posted online for an EDL demonstration in the area on Saturday August 18.

The EDL, which describes itself as an "inclusive movement" opposed to Islamic extremism, denies being a racist organisation.

But a spokesman for the WF Trades Council said: "There is no other reason that this organisation should come to Waltham Forest other than to seek to divide our multicultural community and to incite racial tension".

He added that plans were underway for an alternative 'We Are Waltham Forest' event on the same day, designed to celebrate the borough's multiculturalism.

Members of the Waltham Forest Anti-Cuts Union have also passed a motion pledging to halt the march.

Last September Waltham Forest was one of five London boroughs where marches were temporarily banned by the government, following concerns about a proposed EDL march in Tower Hamlets.

At the time, police said they had "specific intelligence" which suggested that the EDL demo could potentially result in "serious public disorder, violence and damage".

Waltham Forest has been subject to a variety of extremist protests in recent years.

In July 2011 fundamentalist group Muslims Against Crusades (MAC) held a march from Leyton to Walthamstow.

A small counter-demonstration was reportedly planned by the EDL and a small group of opponents heckled the demonstration, although they were separated by a line of police.

Left wing groups, unions and anti-fascist campaigners also held a demonstration in Walthamstow town square the same day, while the Forest Women's Interfaith Network held an inter-faith tour of religious sites.

A Met spokeswoman said: "Police are aware that EDL plan to hold a demonstration and an appropriate policing plan will be in place."

The Guardian is awaiting a comment from the EDL about its plans for the demonstration.

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Comments (36)

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12:15pm Thu 17 May 12

Jeremy_Griffiths says...

I think we should have a counter march and all dress as Smurfs.
I think we should have a counter march and all dress as Smurfs. Jeremy_Griffiths

2:01pm Thu 17 May 12

Robert19 says...

Both the EDL and the MAC deserve each other. We deserve neither. Both have more in common than they will acknowledge - dogmatic, intolerant, racist and anti democratic.
Both the EDL and the MAC deserve each other. We deserve neither. Both have more in common than they will acknowledge - dogmatic, intolerant, racist and anti democratic. Robert19

3:11pm Thu 17 May 12

muchbarking says...

Robert19 wrote:
Both the EDL and the MAC deserve each other. We deserve neither. Both have more in common than they will acknowledge - dogmatic, intolerant, racist and anti democratic.
Couldn't agree more - both groups are troublemakers looking for a fight on our streets and should be denied that opportunity.
[quote][p][bold]Robert19[/bold] wrote: Both the EDL and the MAC deserve each other. We deserve neither. Both have more in common than they will acknowledge - dogmatic, intolerant, racist and anti democratic.[/p][/quote]Couldn't agree more - both groups are troublemakers looking for a fight on our streets and should be denied that opportunity. muchbarking

4:12pm Thu 17 May 12

Chappo says...

Fortunately expressing ones views are part of every (UK) citizens democratic rights. When far right groups are banned from marching while groups such as Radical Islamics are, this is a democratic imbalance. I remember the Sharia 4 UK group marching through Bakers Arms intimidating and insulting passers by, while protected by Police and Community Officers. When I objected with my views about the inequality and humiliation of their women who were made to walk behind them and possibly "forced" to march, I was confronted by an "Asian" PCSO who then threatened "me" with a public order offence. Enough said.
Fortunately expressing ones views are part of every (UK) citizens democratic rights. When far right groups are banned from marching while groups such as Radical Islamics are, this is a democratic imbalance. I remember the Sharia 4 UK group marching through Bakers Arms intimidating and insulting passers by, while protected by Police and Community Officers. When I objected with my views about the inequality and humiliation of their women who were made to walk behind them and possibly "forced" to march, I was confronted by an "Asian" PCSO who then threatened "me" with a public order offence. Enough said. Chappo

4:21pm Thu 17 May 12

Nairn says...

I know what you are saying Chappo but weren't members of the IRA UK Citizens? That was the whole point of their action in this country - that they didn't want to be under British rule, but they were UK Citizens. Would they be allowed/welcomed on our streets?
I know what you are saying Chappo but weren't members of the IRA UK Citizens? That was the whole point of their action in this country - that they didn't want to be under British rule, but they were UK Citizens. Would they be allowed/welcomed on our streets? Nairn

4:31pm Thu 17 May 12

ShinySue says...

We can do without this nonsense frankly, and all the cost and inconvenience that goes with it. it was ridiculous last time, the number of police that were involved. just dont give permission for these thngs it ony encourages them to keep on asking to do it over and over again
We can do without this nonsense frankly, and all the cost and inconvenience that goes with it. it was ridiculous last time, the number of police that were involved. just dont give permission for these thngs it ony encourages them to keep on asking to do it over and over again ShinySue

4:40pm Thu 17 May 12

Nairn says...

yes ShinySue agree but then permission for other marches would not have to be granted eg. trade union ones, the Good Friday Christian event that happens in the Town Sq but starts off from various places in Walthamstow etc etc. Can't have one rule for one and not the other unless there is an actual threat to the community that has been communicated beforehand as one of the aims of the march eg. to smash as many buildings as possible or something equally ridiculous.
yes ShinySue agree but then permission for other marches would not have to be granted eg. trade union ones, the Good Friday Christian event that happens in the Town Sq but starts off from various places in Walthamstow etc etc. Can't have one rule for one and not the other unless there is an actual threat to the community that has been communicated beforehand as one of the aims of the march eg. to smash as many buildings as possible or something equally ridiculous. Nairn

7:46pm Thu 17 May 12

Chappo says...

Hi! Nairn. The problem is the IRA were promoting violence to get listened to and get their own way, the same as the Sharia 4 UK did with there inflamatory banners calling for decapitation of non believers. (I still have photos of the march). How they were not arrested for promoting violence i`ll never know.
Hi! Nairn. The problem is the IRA were promoting violence to get listened to and get their own way, the same as the Sharia 4 UK did with there inflamatory banners calling for decapitation of non believers. (I still have photos of the march). How they were not arrested for promoting violence i`ll never know. Chappo

9:11pm Thu 17 May 12

tjw422 says...

Chapo, I'm sorry to say that you are spot on. I remember being in 'a restaurant' during one of those marches. I distinctly recall asking the manager why the women were following up, right at the back of the procession. He just stated that "that's the religion". In our country, and in both Catholic and Church of England religions, our men and our women walk together, AS EQUALS.
Chapo, I'm sorry to say that you are spot on. I remember being in 'a restaurant' during one of those marches. I distinctly recall asking the manager why the women were following up, right at the back of the procession. He just stated that "that's the religion". In our country, and in both Catholic and Church of England religions, our men and our women walk together, AS EQUALS. tjw422

2:04am Fri 18 May 12

WCBMI5 says...

When these creatures wish to demonstrate the police except plain clothes officers, fire and ambulance services should be withdrawn from the streets and the general public advised to take cover in their homes. Let battles then commence with all sides dealing with their own casualties and damage! On the cessation of hostilities all chattels and property belonging the officials and organisations that these nuisances claim to represent can then be seized by court order!
Concealed surveillance cameras can be used to identify and prosecute the exhausted participants! Let's get serious and make these oafs (religious and political) pay for their stupidity!
When these creatures wish to demonstrate the police except plain clothes officers, fire and ambulance services should be withdrawn from the streets and the general public advised to take cover in their homes. Let battles then commence with all sides dealing with their own casualties and damage! On the cessation of hostilities all chattels and property belonging the officials and organisations that these nuisances claim to represent can then be seized by court order! Concealed surveillance cameras can be used to identify and prosecute the exhausted participants! Let's get serious and make these oafs (religious and political) pay for their stupidity! WCBMI5

9:01am Fri 18 May 12

Nairn says...

OK WCBMI5 - off you go and get that organised then. Let us know where we collect the concealed surveillance cameras and where we can collect the money to pay for repairs to our property and cars etc. Oh and if you can tell us where the temporary field hospital is going to be so we innocent by-standers who will be hurt in the cross-fire can get treatment, that would be great.

Serious and stupidity are two words you use in your last sentence - words that describe your own suggestion: seriously stupid!
OK WCBMI5 - off you go and get that organised then. Let us know where we collect the concealed surveillance cameras and where we can collect the money to pay for repairs to our property and cars etc. Oh and if you can tell us where the temporary field hospital is going to be so we innocent by-standers who will be hurt in the cross-fire can get treatment, that would be great. Serious and stupidity are two words you use in your last sentence - words that describe your own suggestion: seriously stupid! Nairn

10:01am Fri 18 May 12

Techno3 says...

I hate the EDL. I really do. They reduce love of one's country to chavy football chants.

Sadly, we have only ourselves to blame. They must be permitted to march, they have a legal right to but more to the point, they have a right because the precedents have been set. The council has been encouraging muslims to hold large, disruptive, thinly disguised political marches through the borough for years now as well as allowing various christian groups to march through our streets. They even let Anjem Choudhry's mob march through to the streets.

My great fear is that since the exposure of the sleazy local Labour Party as totally undemocratic and out of touch with their electorate over a variety of issues of importance to them, including the Walthamstow dogtrack, groups like the EDL may find a political vacuum exists in which they can gain local political support for the first time.
I hate the EDL. I really do. They reduce love of one's country to chavy football chants. Sadly, we have only ourselves to blame. They must be permitted to march, they have a legal right to but more to the point, they have a right because the precedents have been set. The council has been encouraging muslims to hold large, disruptive, thinly disguised political marches through the borough for years now as well as allowing various christian groups to march through our streets. They even let Anjem Choudhry's mob march through to the streets. My great fear is that since the exposure of the sleazy local Labour Party as totally undemocratic and out of touch with their electorate over a variety of issues of importance to them, including the Walthamstow dogtrack, groups like the EDL may find a political vacuum exists in which they can gain local political support for the first time. Techno3

12:56pm Fri 18 May 12

mdj says...

The population in this borough is so diverse, fragmented, call it what you will, that there is no political constituency here for their views. This march will have to be formed from outsiders, which tells its own story.
Like many people with over 2000 years of ancestry in this country, I don't see myself as English, but British; but equally, someone who has recently settled here but is totally committed to this country and supporting its values is British too. Sadly, there is evidence of groups settled here not wishing to belong.The use of the St George cross worried me for several years as a symbol of ethnicity, but more recently one sees people from all sorts of ethnic backgrounds flying it during football tournaments, which is a very healthy sign.

A major problem is that the main parties have hidden from public discussion of issues of immigration, identity, and belonging, leaving the field to extremists. Perhaps one useful thing we could all do is to reclaim our national flags by using them more often, saving them from the abuse they have been put to in recent years as symbols of exclusion.
The population in this borough is so diverse, fragmented, call it what you will, that there is no political constituency here for their views. This march will have to be formed from outsiders, which tells its own story. Like many people with over 2000 years of ancestry in this country, I don't see myself as English, but British; but equally, someone who has recently settled here but is totally committed to this country and supporting its values is British too. Sadly, there is evidence of groups settled here not wishing to belong.The use of the St George cross worried me for several years as a symbol of ethnicity, but more recently one sees people from all sorts of ethnic backgrounds flying it during football tournaments, which is a very healthy sign. A major problem is that the main parties have hidden from public discussion of issues of immigration, identity, and belonging, leaving the field to extremists. Perhaps one useful thing we could all do is to reclaim our national flags by using them more often, saving them from the abuse they have been put to in recent years as symbols of exclusion. mdj

2:47pm Fri 18 May 12

I.Ride says...

The EDL march will cause tension? Of course it will and so what. With all the "political correctness" crap anyone who has got pride for their country will cause a problem but.. So what this is England! The government are full of half wits playing a popularity contest that are too scared to say this is England if you dont like it Get out! The EDL are showing what they feel and they have the right to, I think its about time we stopped trying to celebrate being multi-cultural and started celebrating being English!! The born and bred English are what made this country so great in the past, but since it became so multi-cultural its not so great now is it?
The EDL march will cause tension? Of course it will and so what. With all the "political correctness" crap anyone who has got pride for their country will cause a problem but.. So what this is England! The government are full of half wits playing a popularity contest that are too scared to say this is England if you dont like it Get out! The EDL are showing what they feel and they have the right to, I think its about time we stopped trying to celebrate being multi-cultural and started celebrating being English!! The born and bred English are what made this country so great in the past, but since it became so multi-cultural its not so great now is it? I.Ride

4:38pm Fri 18 May 12

pan says...

The issues surrounding this kind of protest are complex and exploited.
Those that are condemning the march did nothing to prevent Islamic groups marching and have not spoken out against Islamic extremism.

They are using it as an excuse for recruitment into their own groups. The intention of the marches is to protest peaceful yet in most cases opposition turns out fully prepared to use violence that they believe is justified when they do it yet condemn others for the same behaviour.

Knowing that there is likely to be opposition means that there will be an element within the march also attending with the sole intention of trouble as well.

It will be interesting to see how long the EDL can pull off its non-political stance with allegiances that they are forming. Political parties are not permitted to march, that said though it has never stopped the trade unions and they are pretty much as political as can be.

The issue here is that there is an element of oppression to freedom of speech in this country and people that have an opinion that doesn't fall into what others have decided as acceptable are not allowed to voice their views democratically so they are forced into carry out more dramatic actions to gain a voice. Younger people especially are attracted to such demonstrations because they are not interested in wasting their time listening to mind-numbing drivel spouted by politicians and neither are they interested in wasting years of their lives attempting to involve themselves with mainstream political groups to try to have their say. If they are angry and a group offers them a quick solution to react against an issue that is bothering them at that given time adding an element of excitement such as you get on demonstrations and you get a formula for support.
Throw into the equation a lack of any decent representation or inspiration for English youth and they will start paying attention to pub politics especially when its tied in with football.

The real solution would be to allow true democracy in this country and put all sides into discussions but that would mean that the groups that make a very nice living exploiting fears and generating militant support would be back on the dole. It would also mean that the politicians might find themselves out of their league when confronted with real issues from people that are passionate and show themselves up for the actors and actresses they are.
The issues surrounding this kind of protest are complex and exploited. Those that are condemning the march did nothing to prevent Islamic groups marching and have not spoken out against Islamic extremism. They are using it as an excuse for recruitment into their own groups. The intention of the marches is to protest peaceful yet in most cases opposition turns out fully prepared to use violence that they believe is justified when they do it yet condemn others for the same behaviour. Knowing that there is likely to be opposition means that there will be an element within the march also attending with the sole intention of trouble as well. It will be interesting to see how long the EDL can pull off its non-political stance with allegiances that they are forming. Political parties are not permitted to march, that said though it has never stopped the trade unions and they are pretty much as political as can be. The issue here is that there is an element of oppression to freedom of speech in this country and people that have an opinion that doesn't fall into what others have decided as acceptable are not allowed to voice their views democratically so they are forced into carry out more dramatic actions to gain a voice. Younger people especially are attracted to such demonstrations because they are not interested in wasting their time listening to mind-numbing drivel spouted by politicians and neither are they interested in wasting years of their lives attempting to involve themselves with mainstream political groups to try to have their say. If they are angry and a group offers them a quick solution to react against an issue that is bothering them at that given time adding an element of excitement such as you get on demonstrations and you get a formula for support. Throw into the equation a lack of any decent representation or inspiration for English youth and they will start paying attention to pub politics especially when its tied in with football. The real solution would be to allow true democracy in this country and put all sides into discussions but that would mean that the groups that make a very nice living exploiting fears and generating militant support would be back on the dole. It would also mean that the politicians might find themselves out of their league when confronted with real issues from people that are passionate and show themselves up for the actors and actresses they are. pan

7:10pm Fri 18 May 12

Smudger5412 says...

So it's o.k for a march to be allowed in support of implementing Shariah Law and banning democracy. But it's not o.k to allow a march against Shariah Law? This is what it boils down to people. You cannot treat people differently and afford more rights to any group but not others. If you don't want to be anywhere near the march then plan ahead. England is a democratic Society and anyone who seeks to ban this democratic right to march is acting nothing short of what would happen under Stalin in the old Soviet Union, or is this what has become of the U.K? Run by communists trying to stifle free speech and a persons right to demonstrate.
So it's o.k for a march to be allowed in support of implementing Shariah Law and banning democracy. But it's not o.k to allow a march against Shariah Law? This is what it boils down to people. You cannot treat people differently and afford more rights to any group but not others. If you don't want to be anywhere near the march then plan ahead. England is a democratic Society and anyone who seeks to ban this democratic right to march is acting nothing short of what would happen under Stalin in the old Soviet Union, or is this what has become of the U.K? Run by communists trying to stifle free speech and a persons right to demonstrate. Smudger5412

7:51pm Fri 18 May 12

Techno3 says...

Smudger5412 wrote:
So it's o.k for a march to be allowed in support of implementing Shariah Law and banning democracy. But it's not o.k to allow a march against Shariah Law? This is what it boils down to people. You cannot treat people differently and afford more rights to any group but not others. If you don't want to be anywhere near the march then plan ahead. England is a democratic Society and anyone who seeks to ban this democratic right to march is acting nothing short of what would happen under Stalin in the old Soviet Union, or is this what has become of the U.K? Run by communists trying to stifle free speech and a persons right to demonstrate.
If you re-read the above comments you will find only two out of sixteen are actually saying the march should be banned.

What you will also find is that a majority of people think that EDL should not be under any illusions that they are welcome. They are not. I have seen pictures of their marches elsewhere and find the chants moronic and the level of discourse by EDL speakers crude. In this, they are a mirror of many of the other fools who have held marches here in Walthamstow over the last few years.

Still, it is not against the law for foolishness to be paraded in public. The people doing it are asked however not to incite or carry out violence and to demonstrate that they are willing to obey the law and uphold the very English values of tolerance and hospitality which this neighbourhood prides itself in. And if people must come from outside the area, please remember to spend some money in the local shops, as we could do with a boost to the economy in these difficult times.
[quote][p][bold]Smudger5412[/bold] wrote: So it's o.k for a march to be allowed in support of implementing Shariah Law and banning democracy. But it's not o.k to allow a march against Shariah Law? This is what it boils down to people. You cannot treat people differently and afford more rights to any group but not others. If you don't want to be anywhere near the march then plan ahead. England is a democratic Society and anyone who seeks to ban this democratic right to march is acting nothing short of what would happen under Stalin in the old Soviet Union, or is this what has become of the U.K? Run by communists trying to stifle free speech and a persons right to demonstrate.[/p][/quote]If you re-read the above comments you will find only two out of sixteen are actually saying the march should be banned. What you will also find is that a majority of people think that EDL should not be under any illusions that they are welcome. They are not. I have seen pictures of their marches elsewhere and find the chants moronic and the level of discourse by EDL speakers crude. In this, they are a mirror of many of the other fools who have held marches here in Walthamstow over the last few years. Still, it is not against the law for foolishness to be paraded in public. The people doing it are asked however not to incite or carry out violence and to demonstrate that they are willing to obey the law and uphold the very English values of tolerance and hospitality which this neighbourhood prides itself in. And if people must come from outside the area, please remember to spend some money in the local shops, as we could do with a boost to the economy in these difficult times. Techno3

8:45pm Fri 18 May 12

Smudger5412 says...

Techno3 wrote:
Smudger5412 wrote:
So it's o.k for a march to be allowed in support of implementing Shariah Law and banning democracy. But it's not o.k to allow a march against Shariah Law? This is what it boils down to people. You cannot treat people differently and afford more rights to any group but not others. If you don't want to be anywhere near the march then plan ahead. England is a democratic Society and anyone who seeks to ban this democratic right to march is acting nothing short of what would happen under Stalin in the old Soviet Union, or is this what has become of the U.K? Run by communists trying to stifle free speech and a persons right to demonstrate.
If you re-read the above comments you will find only two out of sixteen are actually saying the march should be banned.

What you will also find is that a majority of people think that EDL should not be under any illusions that they are welcome. They are not. I have seen pictures of their marches elsewhere and find the chants moronic and the level of discourse by EDL speakers crude. In this, they are a mirror of many of the other fools who have held marches here in Walthamstow over the last few years.

Still, it is not against the law for foolishness to be paraded in public. The people doing it are asked however not to incite or carry out violence and to demonstrate that they are willing to obey the law and uphold the very English values of tolerance and hospitality which this neighbourhood prides itself in. And if people must come from outside the area, please remember to spend some money in the local shops, as we could do with a boost to the economy in these difficult times.
I'll re-read nothing buddy, it's you that seems to have a beef with a post that is directed at the Stalanists. Just where did I refer to your post? keep your nose out its nothing to do with you. But credit where it is due, you're dead right about the dog track.It's enough to make you lose faith in the elected Councillors that don't listen to what local residents want. Still who would want to live across the road from a massive bus garage that got passed at planning this week?
[quote][p][bold]Techno3[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Smudger5412[/bold] wrote: So it's o.k for a march to be allowed in support of implementing Shariah Law and banning democracy. But it's not o.k to allow a march against Shariah Law? This is what it boils down to people. You cannot treat people differently and afford more rights to any group but not others. If you don't want to be anywhere near the march then plan ahead. England is a democratic Society and anyone who seeks to ban this democratic right to march is acting nothing short of what would happen under Stalin in the old Soviet Union, or is this what has become of the U.K? Run by communists trying to stifle free speech and a persons right to demonstrate.[/p][/quote]If you re-read the above comments you will find only two out of sixteen are actually saying the march should be banned. What you will also find is that a majority of people think that EDL should not be under any illusions that they are welcome. They are not. I have seen pictures of their marches elsewhere and find the chants moronic and the level of discourse by EDL speakers crude. In this, they are a mirror of many of the other fools who have held marches here in Walthamstow over the last few years. Still, it is not against the law for foolishness to be paraded in public. The people doing it are asked however not to incite or carry out violence and to demonstrate that they are willing to obey the law and uphold the very English values of tolerance and hospitality which this neighbourhood prides itself in. And if people must come from outside the area, please remember to spend some money in the local shops, as we could do with a boost to the economy in these difficult times.[/p][/quote]I'll re-read nothing buddy, it's you that seems to have a beef with a post that is directed at the Stalanists. Just where did I refer to your post? keep your nose out its nothing to do with you. But credit where it is due, you're dead right about the dog track.It's enough to make you lose faith in the elected Councillors that don't listen to what local residents want. Still who would want to live across the road from a massive bus garage that got passed at planning this week? Smudger5412

11:10am Sat 19 May 12

Techno3 says...

Smudger5412 wrote:
Techno3 wrote:
Smudger5412 wrote:
So it's o.k for a march to be allowed in support of implementing Shariah Law and banning democracy. But it's not o.k to allow a march against Shariah Law? This is what it boils down to people. You cannot treat people differently and afford more rights to any group but not others. If you don't want to be anywhere near the march then plan ahead. England is a democratic Society and anyone who seeks to ban this democratic right to march is acting nothing short of what would happen under Stalin in the old Soviet Union, or is this what has become of the U.K? Run by communists trying to stifle free speech and a persons right to demonstrate.
If you re-read the above comments you will find only two out of sixteen are actually saying the march should be banned.

What you will also find is that a majority of people think that EDL should not be under any illusions that they are welcome. They are not. I have seen pictures of their marches elsewhere and find the chants moronic and the level of discourse by EDL speakers crude. In this, they are a mirror of many of the other fools who have held marches here in Walthamstow over the last few years.

Still, it is not against the law for foolishness to be paraded in public. The people doing it are asked however not to incite or carry out violence and to demonstrate that they are willing to obey the law and uphold the very English values of tolerance and hospitality which this neighbourhood prides itself in. And if people must come from outside the area, please remember to spend some money in the local shops, as we could do with a boost to the economy in these difficult times.
I'll re-read nothing buddy, it's you that seems to have a beef with a post that is directed at the Stalanists. Just where did I refer to your post? keep your nose out its nothing to do with you. But credit where it is due, you're dead right about the dog track.It's enough to make you lose faith in the elected Councillors that don't listen to what local residents want. Still who would want to live across the road from a massive bus garage that got passed at planning this week?
The word you are probably looking for is 'Stalinists'. It is not them you need to pursuade, but the public. You will never do that by being course.

Please note that this is a public forum and it is not run for the benefit of extremists to have private discussions with each other. We are all entitled to read and comment on anything said by anyone else on here. It is a 'freedom of speech' thing, something you claim to be interested in the EDL exercising but do not seem to fully understand.
[quote][p][bold]Smudger5412[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Techno3[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Smudger5412[/bold] wrote: So it's o.k for a march to be allowed in support of implementing Shariah Law and banning democracy. But it's not o.k to allow a march against Shariah Law? This is what it boils down to people. You cannot treat people differently and afford more rights to any group but not others. If you don't want to be anywhere near the march then plan ahead. England is a democratic Society and anyone who seeks to ban this democratic right to march is acting nothing short of what would happen under Stalin in the old Soviet Union, or is this what has become of the U.K? Run by communists trying to stifle free speech and a persons right to demonstrate.[/p][/quote]If you re-read the above comments you will find only two out of sixteen are actually saying the march should be banned. What you will also find is that a majority of people think that EDL should not be under any illusions that they are welcome. They are not. I have seen pictures of their marches elsewhere and find the chants moronic and the level of discourse by EDL speakers crude. In this, they are a mirror of many of the other fools who have held marches here in Walthamstow over the last few years. Still, it is not against the law for foolishness to be paraded in public. The people doing it are asked however not to incite or carry out violence and to demonstrate that they are willing to obey the law and uphold the very English values of tolerance and hospitality which this neighbourhood prides itself in. And if people must come from outside the area, please remember to spend some money in the local shops, as we could do with a boost to the economy in these difficult times.[/p][/quote]I'll re-read nothing buddy, it's you that seems to have a beef with a post that is directed at the Stalanists. Just where did I refer to your post? keep your nose out its nothing to do with you. But credit where it is due, you're dead right about the dog track.It's enough to make you lose faith in the elected Councillors that don't listen to what local residents want. Still who would want to live across the road from a massive bus garage that got passed at planning this week?[/p][/quote]The word you are probably looking for is 'Stalinists'. It is not them you need to pursuade, but the public. You will never do that by being course. Please note that this is a public forum and it is not run for the benefit of extremists to have private discussions with each other. We are all entitled to read and comment on anything said by anyone else on here. It is a 'freedom of speech' thing, something you claim to be interested in the EDL exercising but do not seem to fully understand. Techno3

1:30am Sun 20 May 12

W F B says...

As long as it's a peaceful no problem. Let them march..
As long as it's a peaceful no problem. Let them march.. W F B

11:22pm Sun 20 May 12

Kestral1410 says...

Techno3 says...

"The word you are probably looking for is 'Stalinists'. It is not them you need to pursuade, but the public. You will never do that by being course.

Please note that this is a public forum and it is not run for the benefit of extremists to have private discussions with each other. We are all entitled to read and comment on anything said by anyone else on here. It is a 'freedom of speech' thing, something you claim to be interested in the EDL exercising but do not seem to fully understand."

I think the word you wanted is 'coarse' :-)

I feel that a crackdown is needed on all extremist groups and i am fed up with hearing the word multiculturalism, its not working!
Techno3 says... "The word you are probably looking for is 'Stalinists'. It is not them you need to pursuade, but the public. You will never do that by being course. Please note that this is a public forum and it is not run for the benefit of extremists to have private discussions with each other. We are all entitled to read and comment on anything said by anyone else on here. It is a 'freedom of speech' thing, something you claim to be interested in the EDL exercising but do not seem to fully understand." I think the word you wanted is 'coarse' :-) I feel that a crackdown is needed on all extremist groups and i am fed up with hearing the word multiculturalism, its not working! Kestral1410

11:56pm Sun 20 May 12

Techno3 says...

Kestral1410 wrote:
Techno3 says...

"The word you are probably looking for is 'Stalinists'. It is not them you need to pursuade, but the public. You will never do that by being course.

Please note that this is a public forum and it is not run for the benefit of extremists to have private discussions with each other. We are all entitled to read and comment on anything said by anyone else on here. It is a 'freedom of speech' thing, something you claim to be interested in the EDL exercising but do not seem to fully understand."

I think the word you wanted is 'coarse' :-)

I feel that a crackdown is needed on all extremist groups and i am fed up with hearing the word multiculturalism, its not working!
Touché

It seems there are fewer and fewer people nowadays who use that word 'multiculturalism' these days in normal speech - unless they are on the public payroll or trying to get into business with the government in one of its many guises.

Multiculturalism is an odd idea. At its insincere, box-ticking worst, its proponents seek, through bureaucratic means, to encourage the ossification of social, religious and racial divisions - by categorising and dividing people in ways which just don't make any sense in the real world.
[quote][p][bold]Kestral1410[/bold] wrote: Techno3 says... "The word you are probably looking for is 'Stalinists'. It is not them you need to pursuade, but the public. You will never do that by being course. Please note that this is a public forum and it is not run for the benefit of extremists to have private discussions with each other. We are all entitled to read and comment on anything said by anyone else on here. It is a 'freedom of speech' thing, something you claim to be interested in the EDL exercising but do not seem to fully understand." I think the word you wanted is 'coarse' :-) I feel that a crackdown is needed on all extremist groups and i am fed up with hearing the word multiculturalism, its not working![/p][/quote]Touché It seems there are fewer and fewer people nowadays who use that word 'multiculturalism' these days in normal speech - unless they are on the public payroll or trying to get into business with the government in one of its many guises. Multiculturalism is an odd idea. At its insincere, box-ticking worst, its proponents seek, through bureaucratic means, to encourage the ossification of social, religious and racial divisions - by categorising and dividing people in ways which just don't make any sense in the real world. Techno3

1:05am Mon 21 May 12

Kestral1410 says...

Techno3 wrote:
Kestral1410 wrote:
Techno3 says...

"The word you are probably looking for is 'Stalinists'. It is not them you need to pursuade, but the public. You will never do that by being course.

Please note that this is a public forum and it is not run for the benefit of extremists to have private discussions with each other. We are all entitled to read and comment on anything said by anyone else on here. It is a 'freedom of speech' thing, something you claim to be interested in the EDL exercising but do not seem to fully understand."

I think the word you wanted is 'coarse' :-)

I feel that a crackdown is needed on all extremist groups and i am fed up with hearing the word multiculturalism, its not working!
Touché

It seems there are fewer and fewer people nowadays who use that word 'multiculturalism' these days in normal speech - unless they are on the public payroll or trying to get into business with the government in one of its many guises.

Multiculturalism is an odd idea. At its insincere, box-ticking worst, its proponents seek, through bureaucratic means, to encourage the ossification of social, religious and racial divisions - by categorising and dividing people in ways which just don't make any sense in the real world.
Techno3, So true!
I feel very confused and embarrassed that I unfortunately do support some of the policies/ideals of the bnp, but I do not want to be associated with the apparent riff raff members you always see on their marches and on TV. I surely can't be the only 'normal' person, who doesn't speak or look like them, but agrees with their basic ideals and have black friends who do too!?
[quote][p][bold]Techno3[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Kestral1410[/bold] wrote: Techno3 says... "The word you are probably looking for is 'Stalinists'. It is not them you need to pursuade, but the public. You will never do that by being course. Please note that this is a public forum and it is not run for the benefit of extremists to have private discussions with each other. We are all entitled to read and comment on anything said by anyone else on here. It is a 'freedom of speech' thing, something you claim to be interested in the EDL exercising but do not seem to fully understand." I think the word you wanted is 'coarse' :-) I feel that a crackdown is needed on all extremist groups and i am fed up with hearing the word multiculturalism, its not working![/p][/quote]Touché It seems there are fewer and fewer people nowadays who use that word 'multiculturalism' these days in normal speech - unless they are on the public payroll or trying to get into business with the government in one of its many guises. Multiculturalism is an odd idea. At its insincere, box-ticking worst, its proponents seek, through bureaucratic means, to encourage the ossification of social, religious and racial divisions - by categorising and dividing people in ways which just don't make any sense in the real world.[/p][/quote]Techno3, So true! I feel very confused and embarrassed that I unfortunately do support some of the policies/ideals of the bnp, but I do not want to be associated with the apparent riff raff members you always see on their marches and on TV. I surely can't be the only 'normal' person, who doesn't speak or look like them, but agrees with their basic ideals and have black friends who do too!? Kestral1410

6:31am Mon 21 May 12

pan says...

Kestral1410 wrote:
Techno3 wrote:
Kestral1410 wrote:
Techno3 says...

"The word you are probably looking for is 'Stalinists'. It is not them you need to pursuade, but the public. You will never do that by being course.

Please note that this is a public forum and it is not run for the benefit of extremists to have private discussions with each other. We are all entitled to read and comment on anything said by anyone else on here. It is a 'freedom of speech' thing, something you claim to be interested in the EDL exercising but do not seem to fully understand."

I think the word you wanted is 'coarse' :-)

I feel that a crackdown is needed on all extremist groups and i am fed up with hearing the word multiculturalism, its not working!
Touché

It seems there are fewer and fewer people nowadays who use that word 'multiculturalism' these days in normal speech - unless they are on the public payroll or trying to get into business with the government in one of its many guises.

Multiculturalism is an odd idea. At its insincere, box-ticking worst, its proponents seek, through bureaucratic means, to encourage the ossification of social, religious and racial divisions - by categorising and dividing people in ways which just don't make any sense in the real world.
Techno3, So true!
I feel very confused and embarrassed that I unfortunately do support some of the policies/ideals of the bnp, but I do not want to be associated with the apparent riff raff members you always see on their marches and on TV. I surely can't be the only 'normal' person, who doesn't speak or look like them, but agrees with their basic ideals and have black friends who do too!?
Kestral1410, I wouldn't worry about having sympathy with certain ideals held by the BNP, many people do on the quiet, but do not get the BNP and the EDL mixed up as they are poles apart on many other issues. Many BNP members support the EDL and many EDL members support the BNP but that is because they have been pushed into the same categories by the media and because there is a cross over of some policies regarding Islam.

The enticement for BNP members to cross over is because the EDL marches and the BNP doesn't any more. The cross over between the EDL members towards the BNP is that they are the closest thing that they have to vote for as and when they can. There is also an illusion that somehow the two might unite but that will not happen in my opinion.
There are other parties in the background trying to entice the EDL membership towards them but that will most probably never get off the ground to any great degree.

The BNP had a maximum membership at its peak of approximately 14,000 members yet gained nearly 1 million votes in the last Euro elections so that would indicate that you are not alone however the BNP is now nearly defunct as an electoral body and is highly unlikely to ever reach that peak again.

The EDL will align itself to a party to attempt to repeat this success but it will be very unlikely that they will manage it with their current internal frameworks, mixed message and lack of any other coherent
policy or indeed the will for its membership to produce one.
[quote][p][bold]Kestral1410[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Techno3[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Kestral1410[/bold] wrote: Techno3 says... "The word you are probably looking for is 'Stalinists'. It is not them you need to pursuade, but the public. You will never do that by being course. Please note that this is a public forum and it is not run for the benefit of extremists to have private discussions with each other. We are all entitled to read and comment on anything said by anyone else on here. It is a 'freedom of speech' thing, something you claim to be interested in the EDL exercising but do not seem to fully understand." I think the word you wanted is 'coarse' :-) I feel that a crackdown is needed on all extremist groups and i am fed up with hearing the word multiculturalism, its not working![/p][/quote]Touché It seems there are fewer and fewer people nowadays who use that word 'multiculturalism' these days in normal speech - unless they are on the public payroll or trying to get into business with the government in one of its many guises. Multiculturalism is an odd idea. At its insincere, box-ticking worst, its proponents seek, through bureaucratic means, to encourage the ossification of social, religious and racial divisions - by categorising and dividing people in ways which just don't make any sense in the real world.[/p][/quote]Techno3, So true! I feel very confused and embarrassed that I unfortunately do support some of the policies/ideals of the bnp, but I do not want to be associated with the apparent riff raff members you always see on their marches and on TV. I surely can't be the only 'normal' person, who doesn't speak or look like them, but agrees with their basic ideals and have black friends who do too!?[/p][/quote]Kestral1410, I wouldn't worry about having sympathy with certain ideals held by the BNP, many people do on the quiet, but do not get the BNP and the EDL mixed up as they are poles apart on many other issues. Many BNP members support the EDL and many EDL members support the BNP but that is because they have been pushed into the same categories by the media and because there is a cross over of some policies regarding Islam. The enticement for BNP members to cross over is because the EDL marches and the BNP doesn't any more. The cross over between the EDL members towards the BNP is that they are the closest thing that they have to vote for as and when they can. There is also an illusion that somehow the two might unite but that will not happen in my opinion. There are other parties in the background trying to entice the EDL membership towards them but that will most probably never get off the ground to any great degree. The BNP had a maximum membership at its peak of approximately 14,000 members yet gained nearly 1 million votes in the last Euro elections so that would indicate that you are not alone however the BNP is now nearly defunct as an electoral body and is highly unlikely to ever reach that peak again. The EDL will align itself to a party to attempt to repeat this success but it will be very unlikely that they will manage it with their current internal frameworks, mixed message and lack of any other coherent policy or indeed the will for its membership to produce one. pan

6:32am Mon 21 May 12

pan says...

Kestral1410 wrote:
Techno3 wrote:
Kestral1410 wrote:
Techno3 says...

"The word you are probably looking for is 'Stalinists'. It is not them you need to pursuade, but the public. You will never do that by being course.

Please note that this is a public forum and it is not run for the benefit of extremists to have private discussions with each other. We are all entitled to read and comment on anything said by anyone else on here. It is a 'freedom of speech' thing, something you claim to be interested in the EDL exercising but do not seem to fully understand."

I think the word you wanted is 'coarse' :-)

I feel that a crackdown is needed on all extremist groups and i am fed up with hearing the word multiculturalism, its not working!
Touché

It seems there are fewer and fewer people nowadays who use that word 'multiculturalism' these days in normal speech - unless they are on the public payroll or trying to get into business with the government in one of its many guises.

Multiculturalism is an odd idea. At its insincere, box-ticking worst, its proponents seek, through bureaucratic means, to encourage the ossification of social, religious and racial divisions - by categorising and dividing people in ways which just don't make any sense in the real world.
Techno3, So true!
I feel very confused and embarrassed that I unfortunately do support some of the policies/ideals of the bnp, but I do not want to be associated with the apparent riff raff members you always see on their marches and on TV. I surely can't be the only 'normal' person, who doesn't speak or look like them, but agrees with their basic ideals and have black friends who do too!?
Kestral1410, I wouldn't worry about having sympathy with certain ideals held by the BNP, many people do on the quiet, but do not get the BNP and the EDL mixed up as they are poles apart on many other issues. Many BNP members support the EDL and many EDL members support the BNP but that is because they have been pushed into the same categories by the media and because there is a cross over of some policies regarding Islam.

The enticement for BNP members to cross over is because the EDL marches and the BNP doesn't any more. The cross over between the EDL members towards the BNP is that they are the closest thing that they have to vote for as and when they can. There is also an illusion that somehow the two might unite but that will not happen in my opinion.
There are other parties in the background trying to entice the EDL membership towards them but that will most probably never get off the ground to any great degree.

The BNP had a maximum membership at its peak of approximately 14,000 members yet gained nearly 1 million votes in the last Euro elections so that would indicate that you are not alone however the BNP is now nearly defunct as an electoral body and is highly unlikely to ever reach that peak again.

The EDL will align itself to a party to attempt to repeat this success but it will be very unlikely that they will manage it with their current internal frameworks, mixed message and lack of any other coherent
policy or indeed the will for its membership to produce one.
[quote][p][bold]Kestral1410[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Techno3[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Kestral1410[/bold] wrote: Techno3 says... "The word you are probably looking for is 'Stalinists'. It is not them you need to pursuade, but the public. You will never do that by being course. Please note that this is a public forum and it is not run for the benefit of extremists to have private discussions with each other. We are all entitled to read and comment on anything said by anyone else on here. It is a 'freedom of speech' thing, something you claim to be interested in the EDL exercising but do not seem to fully understand." I think the word you wanted is 'coarse' :-) I feel that a crackdown is needed on all extremist groups and i am fed up with hearing the word multiculturalism, its not working![/p][/quote]Touché It seems there are fewer and fewer people nowadays who use that word 'multiculturalism' these days in normal speech - unless they are on the public payroll or trying to get into business with the government in one of its many guises. Multiculturalism is an odd idea. At its insincere, box-ticking worst, its proponents seek, through bureaucratic means, to encourage the ossification of social, religious and racial divisions - by categorising and dividing people in ways which just don't make any sense in the real world.[/p][/quote]Techno3, So true! I feel very confused and embarrassed that I unfortunately do support some of the policies/ideals of the bnp, but I do not want to be associated with the apparent riff raff members you always see on their marches and on TV. I surely can't be the only 'normal' person, who doesn't speak or look like them, but agrees with their basic ideals and have black friends who do too!?[/p][/quote]Kestral1410, I wouldn't worry about having sympathy with certain ideals held by the BNP, many people do on the quiet, but do not get the BNP and the EDL mixed up as they are poles apart on many other issues. Many BNP members support the EDL and many EDL members support the BNP but that is because they have been pushed into the same categories by the media and because there is a cross over of some policies regarding Islam. The enticement for BNP members to cross over is because the EDL marches and the BNP doesn't any more. The cross over between the EDL members towards the BNP is that they are the closest thing that they have to vote for as and when they can. There is also an illusion that somehow the two might unite but that will not happen in my opinion. There are other parties in the background trying to entice the EDL membership towards them but that will most probably never get off the ground to any great degree. The BNP had a maximum membership at its peak of approximately 14,000 members yet gained nearly 1 million votes in the last Euro elections so that would indicate that you are not alone however the BNP is now nearly defunct as an electoral body and is highly unlikely to ever reach that peak again. The EDL will align itself to a party to attempt to repeat this success but it will be very unlikely that they will manage it with their current internal frameworks, mixed message and lack of any other coherent policy or indeed the will for its membership to produce one. pan

11:18am Mon 21 May 12

Jeremy_Griffiths says...

W F B wrote:
As long as it's a peaceful no problem. Let them march..
Unfortunately EDL marches have a habit of turning violent very quickly. EDL v Police is a common sight with bottles etc being thrown.
[quote][p][bold]W F B[/bold] wrote: As long as it's a peaceful no problem. Let them march..[/p][/quote]Unfortunately EDL marches have a habit of turning violent very quickly. EDL v Police is a common sight with bottles etc being thrown. Jeremy_Griffiths

11:25am Mon 21 May 12

Jeremy_Griffiths says...

I remember the MAC demo last year. Took quite a few photos (with one burly-looking steward eyeballing me in one shot) and the banners confused me. One said 'Islam is for all Mankind' right next to one saying 'Jihad against Christian Extremists'. Kind of a mixed message! They'd also put up posting declaring Sharia law in the Waltham Forest Emirates. The posters promising Jihad, the blatant subversion of law, yet the demo was allowed to go ahead. Now eventually they were outlawed after thyey were planning to pull a 'burning poppy' stunt again but not before time.

Freedom of speech. It is a priceless thing; to be protected and fought for. Groups like the EDL and MAC obviously don't believe in this; their tactics are those of the bully, the loudmouth. they seek to intimidate, not persuade. Do we allow them to march out of freedom of speech? Or do we ban them? Personally I think they should be allowed too - across the political/religious spectrum - until they break the law. That includes bottle-throwing, that includes displaying posters threatening Jihad. Freedom of speech within the rule of law.
I remember the MAC demo last year. Took quite a few photos (with one burly-looking steward eyeballing me in one shot) and the banners confused me. One said 'Islam is for all Mankind' right next to one saying 'Jihad against Christian Extremists'. Kind of a mixed message! They'd also put up posting declaring Sharia law in the Waltham Forest Emirates. The posters promising Jihad, the blatant subversion of law, yet the demo was allowed to go ahead. Now eventually they were outlawed after thyey were planning to pull a 'burning poppy' stunt again but not before time. Freedom of speech. It is a priceless thing; to be protected and fought for. Groups like the EDL and MAC obviously don't believe in this; their tactics are those of the bully, the loudmouth. they seek to intimidate, not persuade. Do we allow them to march out of freedom of speech? Or do we ban them? Personally I think they should be allowed too - across the political/religious spectrum - until they break the law. That includes bottle-throwing, that includes displaying posters threatening Jihad. Freedom of speech within the rule of law. Jeremy_Griffiths

11:26am Mon 21 May 12

Jeremy_Griffiths says...

But I still think my Smurf counter-march is a great idea. ;-) I'll dress as Smurfette!
But I still think my Smurf counter-march is a great idea. ;-) I'll dress as Smurfette! Jeremy_Griffiths

12:26pm Mon 21 May 12

ruby newbie says...

do wish you would all stop writing short essay's in the comments section......very hard to read....
do wish you would all stop writing short essay's in the comments section......very hard to read.... ruby newbie

12:27pm Mon 21 May 12

Kestral1410 says...

Jeremy_Griffiths wrote:
But I still think my Smurf counter-march is a great idea. ;-) I'll dress as Smurfette!
Thanks for that Techno3.
Lol @ Jeremy_Griffiths - not sure there was a transvestite smurf?!? Doubt there would be enough smurf fancy dress outfits to hire! and I don't think i would advise anyone to be on the streets the same time as the other marches that day!
[quote][p][bold]Jeremy_Griffiths[/bold] wrote: But I still think my Smurf counter-march is a great idea. ;-) I'll dress as Smurfette![/p][/quote]Thanks for that Techno3. Lol @ Jeremy_Griffiths - not sure there was a transvestite smurf?!? Doubt there would be enough smurf fancy dress outfits to hire! and I don't think i would advise anyone to be on the streets the same time as the other marches that day! Kestral1410

10:43pm Mon 21 May 12

Eppingforest1234 says...

Some delightful comments as usual.....
Some delightful comments as usual..... Eppingforest1234

12:43pm Tue 22 May 12

ClifftonX says...

did any EDL members get prosecuted for child abuse in Rochdale? No! I think it was some other bunch.
did any EDL members get prosecuted for child abuse in Rochdale? No! I think it was some other bunch. ClifftonX

9:04am Wed 23 May 12

Techno3 says...

pan wrote:
Kestral1410 wrote:
Techno3 wrote:
Kestral1410 wrote:
Techno3 says...

"The word you are probably looking for is 'Stalinists'. It is not them you need to pursuade, but the public. You will never do that by being course.

Please note that this is a public forum and it is not run for the benefit of extremists to have private discussions with each other. We are all entitled to read and comment on anything said by anyone else on here. It is a 'freedom of speech' thing, something you claim to be interested in the EDL exercising but do not seem to fully understand."

I think the word you wanted is 'coarse' :-)

I feel that a crackdown is needed on all extremist groups and i am fed up with hearing the word multiculturalism, its not working!
Touché

It seems there are fewer and fewer people nowadays who use that word 'multiculturalism' these days in normal speech - unless they are on the public payroll or trying to get into business with the government in one of its many guises.

Multiculturalism is an odd idea. At its insincere, box-ticking worst, its proponents seek, through bureaucratic means, to encourage the ossification of social, religious and racial divisions - by categorising and dividing people in ways which just don't make any sense in the real world.
Techno3, So true!
I feel very confused and embarrassed that I unfortunately do support some of the policies/ideals of the bnp, but I do not want to be associated with the apparent riff raff members you always see on their marches and on TV. I surely can't be the only 'normal' person, who doesn't speak or look like them, but agrees with their basic ideals and have black friends who do too!?
Kestral1410, I wouldn't worry about having sympathy with certain ideals held by the BNP, many people do on the quiet, but do not get the BNP and the EDL mixed up as they are poles apart on many other issues. Many BNP members support the EDL and many EDL members support the BNP but that is because they have been pushed into the same categories by the media and because there is a cross over of some policies regarding Islam.

The enticement for BNP members to cross over is because the EDL marches and the BNP doesn't any more. The cross over between the EDL members towards the BNP is that they are the closest thing that they have to vote for as and when they can. There is also an illusion that somehow the two might unite but that will not happen in my opinion.
There are other parties in the background trying to entice the EDL membership towards them but that will most probably never get off the ground to any great degree.

The BNP had a maximum membership at its peak of approximately 14,000 members yet gained nearly 1 million votes in the last Euro elections so that would indicate that you are not alone however the BNP is now nearly defunct as an electoral body and is highly unlikely to ever reach that peak again.

The EDL will align itself to a party to attempt to repeat this success but it will be very unlikely that they will manage it with their current internal frameworks, mixed message and lack of any other coherent
policy or indeed the will for its membership to produce one.
I agree about the BNP. They are a relic of a past age, though our local MP does like to trot them out as a bogey-man every now and again when she feels the need to scare people into voting for her and can't be bothered to think of anyone more scary, like Anjem Choudhry and his followers.

At the last general election the BNP obtained only 1.9% of the vote nationally. They polled 2.12% in the GLA election in London but performed very poorly indeed in this area. In High Street Ward they only got 18 votes, while in their area of greatest 'support', if that is the right word for it, they only got 38 votes in Chapel End.
[quote][p][bold]pan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Kestral1410[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Techno3[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Kestral1410[/bold] wrote: Techno3 says... "The word you are probably looking for is 'Stalinists'. It is not them you need to pursuade, but the public. You will never do that by being course. Please note that this is a public forum and it is not run for the benefit of extremists to have private discussions with each other. We are all entitled to read and comment on anything said by anyone else on here. It is a 'freedom of speech' thing, something you claim to be interested in the EDL exercising but do not seem to fully understand." I think the word you wanted is 'coarse' :-) I feel that a crackdown is needed on all extremist groups and i am fed up with hearing the word multiculturalism, its not working![/p][/quote]Touché It seems there are fewer and fewer people nowadays who use that word 'multiculturalism' these days in normal speech - unless they are on the public payroll or trying to get into business with the government in one of its many guises. Multiculturalism is an odd idea. At its insincere, box-ticking worst, its proponents seek, through bureaucratic means, to encourage the ossification of social, religious and racial divisions - by categorising and dividing people in ways which just don't make any sense in the real world.[/p][/quote]Techno3, So true! I feel very confused and embarrassed that I unfortunately do support some of the policies/ideals of the bnp, but I do not want to be associated with the apparent riff raff members you always see on their marches and on TV. I surely can't be the only 'normal' person, who doesn't speak or look like them, but agrees with their basic ideals and have black friends who do too!?[/p][/quote]Kestral1410, I wouldn't worry about having sympathy with certain ideals held by the BNP, many people do on the quiet, but do not get the BNP and the EDL mixed up as they are poles apart on many other issues. Many BNP members support the EDL and many EDL members support the BNP but that is because they have been pushed into the same categories by the media and because there is a cross over of some policies regarding Islam. The enticement for BNP members to cross over is because the EDL marches and the BNP doesn't any more. The cross over between the EDL members towards the BNP is that they are the closest thing that they have to vote for as and when they can. There is also an illusion that somehow the two might unite but that will not happen in my opinion. There are other parties in the background trying to entice the EDL membership towards them but that will most probably never get off the ground to any great degree. The BNP had a maximum membership at its peak of approximately 14,000 members yet gained nearly 1 million votes in the last Euro elections so that would indicate that you are not alone however the BNP is now nearly defunct as an electoral body and is highly unlikely to ever reach that peak again. The EDL will align itself to a party to attempt to repeat this success but it will be very unlikely that they will manage it with their current internal frameworks, mixed message and lack of any other coherent policy or indeed the will for its membership to produce one.[/p][/quote]I agree about the BNP. They are a relic of a past age, though our local MP does like to trot them out as a bogey-man every now and again when she feels the need to scare people into voting for her and can't be bothered to think of anyone more scary, like Anjem Choudhry and his followers. At the last general election the BNP obtained only 1.9% of the vote nationally. They polled 2.12% in the GLA election in London but performed very poorly indeed in this area. In High Street Ward they only got 18 votes, while in their area of greatest 'support', if that is the right word for it, they only got 38 votes in Chapel End. Techno3

11:03am Wed 23 May 12

Eppingforest1234 says...

ClifftonX wrote:
did any EDL members get prosecuted for child abuse in Rochdale? No! I think it was some other bunch.
What on earth has this got to do with this topic, other than the fact they are Asian? It may shock you to hear, but there have been plenty of 'white British' people prosecuted for similar appaling crimes.
Its also worth mentioning, that if the BNP/EDL ever gained more power, this country would be doomed and become almost as bad as Nazi germany or any of the current basketcase states.
[quote][p][bold]ClifftonX[/bold] wrote: did any EDL members get prosecuted for child abuse in Rochdale? No! I think it was some other bunch.[/p][/quote]What on earth has this got to do with this topic, other than the fact they are Asian? It may shock you to hear, but there have been plenty of 'white British' people prosecuted for similar appaling crimes. Its also worth mentioning, that if the BNP/EDL ever gained more power, this country would be doomed and become almost as bad as Nazi germany or any of the current basketcase states. Eppingforest1234

1:40pm Wed 23 May 12

ClifftonX says...

Eppingforest1234 wrote:
ClifftonX wrote: did any EDL members get prosecuted for child abuse in Rochdale? No! I think it was some other bunch.
What on earth has this got to do with this topic, other than the fact they are Asian? It may shock you to hear, but there have been plenty of 'white British' people prosecuted for similar appaling crimes. Its also worth mentioning, that if the BNP/EDL ever gained more power, this country would be doomed and become almost as bad as Nazi germany or any of the current basketcase states.
which current basketcase states? The current socialist states such as Britain and Greece are hardly beacons of excellence! The point about Rochdale is that it was due to cultural differences which, people like you, would rather sweep under the carpet than face. Barnados have recently tried to highlight this problem, but it is always glossed over. The fact is, and remains, that all the abusers were of asian origin, and all the victims were white. Can you imagine the uproar if it was the other way round? This, I believe, is the sort of issue that the EDL are trying to highlight in various marches.
[quote][p][bold]Eppingforest1234[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ClifftonX[/bold] wrote: did any EDL members get prosecuted for child abuse in Rochdale? No! I think it was some other bunch.[/p][/quote]What on earth has this got to do with this topic, other than the fact they are Asian? It may shock you to hear, but there have been plenty of 'white British' people prosecuted for similar appaling crimes. Its also worth mentioning, that if the BNP/EDL ever gained more power, this country would be doomed and become almost as bad as Nazi germany or any of the current basketcase states.[/p][/quote]which current basketcase states? The current socialist states such as Britain and Greece are hardly beacons of excellence! The point about Rochdale is that it was due to cultural differences which, people like you, would rather sweep under the carpet than face. Barnados have recently tried to highlight this problem, but it is always glossed over. The fact is, and remains, that all the abusers were of asian origin, and all the victims were white. Can you imagine the uproar if it was the other way round? This, I believe, is the sort of issue that the EDL are trying to highlight in various marches. ClifftonX

7:26am Thu 24 May 12

pan says...

ClifftonX wrote:
Eppingforest1234 wrote:
ClifftonX wrote: did any EDL members get prosecuted for child abuse in Rochdale? No! I think it was some other bunch.
What on earth has this got to do with this topic, other than the fact they are Asian? It may shock you to hear, but there have been plenty of 'white British' people prosecuted for similar appaling crimes. Its also worth mentioning, that if the BNP/EDL ever gained more power, this country would be doomed and become almost as bad as Nazi germany or any of the current basketcase states.
which current basketcase states? The current socialist states such as Britain and Greece are hardly beacons of excellence! The point about Rochdale is that it was due to cultural differences which, people like you, would rather sweep under the carpet than face. Barnados have recently tried to highlight this problem, but it is always glossed over. The fact is, and remains, that all the abusers were of asian origin, and all the victims were white. Can you imagine the uproar if it was the other way round? This, I believe, is the sort of issue that the EDL are trying to highlight in various marches.
Eppingforest1234 you are getting a little bit over dramatic with that statement and that outlook is exactly the mentality that has been stifling the point that Clifton x made.
The BNP and latterly the EDL has been trying to raise awareness of the existence of these grooming gangs since at least 2007 but because of various reasons such as political correctness and this attitude that you must not listen to what the BNP are saying it has continued to be overlooked until now. That is at least five years worth of pain and suffering brushed under the carpet because people were not prepared to listen. I also agree with you that the topic is not limited to race or religion but in the cases mentioned they were. so not being one to discriminate when it comes to all paedophiles and rapists I would personally like to see capital punishment brought back and administered equally.
[quote][p][bold]ClifftonX[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eppingforest1234[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ClifftonX[/bold] wrote: did any EDL members get prosecuted for child abuse in Rochdale? No! I think it was some other bunch.[/p][/quote]What on earth has this got to do with this topic, other than the fact they are Asian? It may shock you to hear, but there have been plenty of 'white British' people prosecuted for similar appaling crimes. Its also worth mentioning, that if the BNP/EDL ever gained more power, this country would be doomed and become almost as bad as Nazi germany or any of the current basketcase states.[/p][/quote]which current basketcase states? The current socialist states such as Britain and Greece are hardly beacons of excellence! The point about Rochdale is that it was due to cultural differences which, people like you, would rather sweep under the carpet than face. Barnados have recently tried to highlight this problem, but it is always glossed over. The fact is, and remains, that all the abusers were of asian origin, and all the victims were white. Can you imagine the uproar if it was the other way round? This, I believe, is the sort of issue that the EDL are trying to highlight in various marches.[/p][/quote]Eppingforest1234 you are getting a little bit over dramatic with that statement and that outlook is exactly the mentality that has been stifling the point that Clifton x made. The BNP and latterly the EDL has been trying to raise awareness of the existence of these grooming gangs since at least 2007 but because of various reasons such as political correctness and this attitude that you must not listen to what the BNP are saying it has continued to be overlooked until now. That is at least five years worth of pain and suffering brushed under the carpet because people were not prepared to listen. I also agree with you that the topic is not limited to race or religion but in the cases mentioned they were. so not being one to discriminate when it comes to all paedophiles and rapists I would personally like to see capital punishment brought back and administered equally. pan

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